[NefAndWord]

I feel badly for asking this, but I have been consistantly training my dog since we got her, as I know we should. She is a little over 7 months old. She's spayed. Half beagle.. half.. something else. Beats me. She's about 22lbs.

She knows the same commands I have always used. Sit, lay down, off (for the furniture), paw, go get it, drop it, she comes when I call her - but ONLY in the house, she is housebroken.. maybe. She has recently been to the vet, and she is in good health. She gets plenty of attention and play time, and I never give her anything without at least making her sit or lie down for it.

But she seems to be ignoring her commands. If I tell her to sit, she barks at me, and eventually she'll lie down instead. She dug open the trashcan outside. She has a long run in the backyard, where she can't get out of the yard, but she has plenty of room to run around, and she always does her business in the same place. But if she manages to slip away from me, or take off out the door (which i don't understand, because I ALWAYS go out before her, and I always have), she is gone. She will shoot off all over the neighborhood, and totally ignore me.
She jumps on EVERYONE. She jumps so high that she will headbutt people, and lick their noses.. and she isn't a big dog. I have tried everything to break her of this, I keep her on a leash in the house, I resorted to crating her, or putting her outside if we have more than one or two people over now, because I can not control her. I turn my back to her, and tell her to sit if she jumps on me, and everyone I know knows to do the same. She doesn't care. She will nip at your calves, or bark, or follow you and dive at you. Or the second she is sitting and behaving, if you praise her, she is jumping in your face again. This training has been going on for months, and it is not improving at all.
As for the other commands, she won't do any of them unless I have a treat. And I did not train her exclusively with treats. I used toys, and playtime, and praise as well. If I tell her to sit, or lie down, she stares blankly at me. If I have food, she seems to easily remember what she should do.
Please help me, she is driving me nuts, and I don't know what to do with her.

I should include that she is on a feeding schedule. She is not allowed on the furniture, and she is still not permitted to go anywhere in the house without supervision.

[bluesbarby]

My dog is almost 7 months old. He's a small mutt. He's recently exhibited a stubborness to following commands. My trainer says it's because he's reached his "teens". That said it all. She told me to just continue being consistent with my training and it would eventually kick in.

[ritabooker]

"But she seems to be ignoring her commands. If I tell her to sit, she barks at me, and eventually she'll lie down instead." by NefAndWord

They can be so frustrating. Abby did this sort of stuff 'til I thought she was mocking me...or maybe just a horrible dog. She is not a horrible dog, but she is a dog and we just had to stay the course. They go through these little testing phases and let you know where they still need lots of work. She will sit, but mostly thinks it is a stupid demand for me to make on her.

Just stay consistant. I know I can continue to train and review with Abby as long as we live, but she gets bored or forgets to be a brat and then I get the opportunities to praise and hug her, which re-enforces the good behaviours.

Abby would jump up and try to engage us in a game of chase. Sometimes she would draw blood with her claws or a nip. We got to the point where we would abruptly leave the yard without a word of reprimand...the fun ended abruptly and Abby was alone.

She finally started to realize that jumping up was not getting her what she wanted. She is much improved, but sometimes we still use the "OFF!" applied a split second before she launches, and she will veer away and run another circle instead of jumping on us. We rarely raise a voice with her, but sometimes she just needs to be startled into staying "OFF!"

We have been training Abby for over a year and she is not perfect yet.

Also, if you Google "NILIF", Nothing In Life Is Free, as an approach to dog training, you will find some helpful stuff to apply in every day dealings with your dog. It is kind of a mindset, which will help you and your pup. You will get there, don't give up.

[NefAndWord]

Originally Posted by bluesbarby

My dog is almost 7 months old. He's a small mutt. He's recently exhibited a stubborness to following commands. My trainer says it's because he's reached his "teens". That said it all. She told me to just continue being consistent with my training and it would eventually kick in.

That makes me feel better. It's just so hard to believe that being so consistant, she could still not care, or not understand. But if it's normal for dogs to just go through a stubborn phase, then I'm glad to know I'm not alone on this.

[borzoimom]

At about 7-8 months they start to get or realize that they are independant of you. Especially with a beagle that is incline to follow their nose. What I would do is make your training more pleasurable than " hunting". Use treats in training or clicker train her. And on a loose lead. Clicker training is the bridge from Yes you got it right- to getting the treat.

[Buddysmom]

Wow - this forum is a "God Send". Last night Buddy would not let me put his leash on - he hopped around as if I was playing a game and would not listen at all to my commands - this went on for approx. 10 minutes. Now we have the same ritual every night - I take him for a long walk before putting him to bed. So last night he didn't get to go for his walk - do you think he knew he was not going for a walk because he would not let me put his leash on???? When we were at puppy school the trainer did warn us of "MUSH BRAIN", I wonder if this is what she was referring too? Anyways, just reading your message made me feel better - thanks!

[Lightwingcreations]

You might also want to borrow a copy of "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor. It's not just geared toward dogs, but people also. It saved my sanity when my Yellow Naped Amazon (parrot) hit the terrible two's. I know, not a dog, but it really brought home to me how you can condition any animal without force. Great book. I wish all people understood the theory that the book uses, life would be so much more pleasant.

[Amaya-Mazie-Marley]

Mazie is the exact same way, also 7 months old. Mazie has been quite a terror since the beginning though. Mazie also headbutts me, jumps so high that her head reaches mine and she licks me on my face until she starts to drop back to the ground. Mazie has some terrier in her so thats why she can jump. I read this, in a book somewhere, that when a dog is jumping and jumping on you, to give them a swift knee right underneath the ribs and they won't ever do it again. Of course it would have to be a large dog, but I think thats cruel. Thanks for posting this, I don't feel so alone and like a bad dog owner anymore!

[ritabooker]

I wouldn't recommend the knee-to-the-ribs cure. There is a chance the dog could be injured.

[borzoimom]

Originally Posted by ritabooker

I wouldn't recommend the knee-to-the-ribs cure. There is a chance the dog could be injured.

EEk! .. NO and you can damage the heart or crack the finer part of the ribs.. Several heart conditions, although can be genetic, are cause by actions to a blow to the chest, ribs or belly..

[NefAndWord]

I have heard about the knee to the chest in order to stop the jumping.. but I just can't do that. It seems as though today she has magically slowed down with the jumping on people... maybe she can sense my "last straw" attitude, and she is gonna behave now. lol. Well, maybe that's not it.. but I can hope
It does feel REALLY good to know that other people are experiencing the same thing. I'm sorry that everyone is going through this, because I know that some days I want to pull my hair out... but, at least I can relax and stop worrying that I am just a terrible master.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by NefAndWord

She knows the same commands I have always used. Sit, lay down, off (for the furniture), paw, go get it, drop it, she comes when I call her - but ONLY in the house

Did your training include adding distractions?

But she seems to be ignoring her commands. If I tell her to sit, she barks at me, and eventually she'll lie down instead.

She doesn't know her commands yet. How have you been teaching these commands?

But if she manages to slip away from me, or take off out the door (which i don't understand, because I ALWAYS go out before her, and I always have), she is gone. She will shoot off all over the neighborhood, and totally ignore me.

What have you been teaching her to keep her inside the house? Can you imagine that what's outside for her is more rewarding than what's inside? You're dog isn't ignoring you. Dogs have no desire to please. They are self interested and opportunistic...this is what's amazing about them and keeps them alive. Only big brained humans are capable of ignoring one another, so please don't blame your dog for being a dog.

She jumps on EVERYONE. She jumps so high that she will headbutt people, and lick their noses.. and she isn't a big dog. I have tried everything to break her of this, I keep her on a leash in the house, I resorted to crating her, or putting her outside if we have more than one or two people over now, because I can not control her. I turn my back to her, and tell her to sit if she jumps on me, and everyone I know knows to do the same. She doesn't care. She will nip at your calves, or bark, or follow you and dive at you. Or the second she is sitting and behaving, if you praise her, she is jumping in your face again. This training has been going on for months, and it is not improving at all.

Sounds like you need some help in how to efficiently deliver commands. BTW, this isn't me being rude here. I'm seriously trying to point out how you can improve the relationship with your dog. I feel like you're blaming the dog, or want to blame the dog. And this usually stems from inexperience in the dog owner, not the intelligence of the dog.

As for the other commands, she won't do any of them unless I have a treat. And I did not train her exclusively with treats. I used toys, and playtime, and praise as well. If I tell her to sit, or lie down, she stares blankly at me. If I have food, she seems to easily remember what she should do.

What you've discovered is that treats are motivational to your dog. No motivation, no training. Be thankful you found one of your dogs motivations because wihout one, your dog is as good as dead. How to use that motivation, again, points to how it is used in your communication with the dog.

I should include that she is on a feeding schedule. She is not allowed on the furniture, and she is still not permitted to go anywhere in the house without supervision.

Why can't she go on the furniture or have free roam?

[threedognite]

First of all, your dog isn't stupid. Dogs know what you know and they know what you DON'T know.
Consider the breed. You stated that your dog is part Beagle. Beagles are sporting dogs and they were bred to flush out rabbits and birds. They are always on the 'go', always ready, revved up. She will probably always be this way because it's in her DNA. This doesn't mean however that she should be destructive and unruly.
It sounds like you have done the obedience training well but there is something else missing. All the obedience training in the world won't help a dog if there isn't any leadership in the pack. You must ask yourself what kind of energy are you giving off around your dog? Most people don't realize they give off nervous, angry, unstable energy but dogs are extremely keen to this. Dogs respond to energy. Calm, assertive energy. The kind of energy that comes only from a stable, calm pack leader. Your dog probably senses your frustration and maybe anger towards her and she doesn't respect this, nor does she trust you.
For now, forget about obedience commands and just work on being calm and assertive around your dog. Take your dog for a long walk on a loose leash, no tension. This will help the two of you bond and make sure you set boundaries for your dog while on the walk. No sniffing the ground, no 'marking' and no pulling. When the walk is over and your dog has drained all the energy, try establishing yourself as her pack leader.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by threedognite

For now, forget about obedience commands and just work on being calm and assertive around your dog. No sniffing the ground, no 'marking' and no pulling. When the walk is over and your dog has drained all the energy, try establishing yourself as her pack leader.

Forget obedience? What's going to teach the dog to comply? Energy? If the problem is compliance, training using operant conditioning is exactly the means for modifying the behavior. I don't know where this mystical energy you mention is coming from, but you need to sell it. These concepts of asserting a pack leadership in lieu of training only muddies the water IMO, when you actually should be proofing the dog's compliance in the face of distractions. Punishing a dog for being a dog is about as silly as looking for a mystical energy to align everything into place.

[threedognite]

"Punishing a dog for being a dog is about as silly as looking for a mystical energy to align everything into place."

I don't know how you came up with the above statement but I never said anything about punishing a dog for being a dog.

There's no mystery to it, it's Mother Nature, simple and pure.
Apparently you don't understand how dogs 'see' their world and if you have read 'Cesar's Way' by Cesar Millan, you would know what I'm talking about.
You can train your dog to do back flips, walk on a tight rope, play a piano but if you don't project calm, assertive energy as the dog's pack leader, the dog is going to become unstable if it isn't already.
Stop thinking in human terms when it comes to dogs. Think like a dog.

[NefAndWord]

Welllll... this just became very confusing suddenly. :\

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Did your training include adding distractions?

Not at first, no. Now, somewhat.. but not nearly enough. The cats disrupt her training time, and she seems to work even harder, I suspect she thinks they will get her treat before she does. I've also been trying to incorporate other people, friends and family, to help me with her manners. Can you give me other good ways to train her with distractions?

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

She doesn't know her commands yet. How have you been teaching these commands?

Hmm. Consistently. I included a command and a hand motion for each from the start.... which I believe was around 6 weeks of age? I'm trying to remember how old she was when we got her. I have her sit, or lie down to receive anything.. whether it's a meal, or a treat, or play time. She also does cutesy tricks like "speak" (i'd like to incorporate "quiet") and "paw" and crawl. I don't quite understand how after 6 months of consistant "SIT" she wouldn't understand that command, or others like it? I haven't changed anything.

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

What have you been teaching her to keep her inside the house? Can you imagine that what's outside for her is more rewarding than what's inside? You're dog isn't ignoring you. Dogs have no desire to please. They are self interested and opportunistic...this is what's amazing about them and keeps them alive. Only big brained humans are capable of ignoring one another, so please don't blame your dog for being a dog.

She has her "in the house" games for playtime, and outside games for play time. She has toys in the house that don't go outside. She only eats in the house, but I do give her water outside. She LOVES to socialize. She loves people and other dogs. If she sees either, she is far more interested in them than in me.

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Sounds like you need some help in how to efficiently deliver commands. BTW, this isn't me being rude here. I'm seriously trying to point out how you can improve the relationship with your dog. I feel like you're blaming the dog, or want to blame the dog. And this usually stems from inexperience in the dog owner, not the intelligence of the dog.

Hmm... I know you aren't trying to be rude, and it doesn't come off that way, either. But I have had well behaved dogs in the past. This issue is new to me, I can't figure it out. I don't feel necessarily like blaming the dog.. but rather her rambunctiousness. lol. Maybe? I'm not sure. By asking if she is stupid, I said that I do feel badly asking. I'm pretty sure she isn't stupid.. but she does seem stubborn. It's difficult to grasp the reasons she would be so "defiant" when I am always consistent. Make sense?

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Why can't she go on the furniture or have free roam?

I don't give her free roam, because she still picks up things that don't belong to her. For example - the shoes off of the rack, or the kid's toys from their toy box. She isn't locked to my side all day, I just don't let her go upstairs without me.
I don't let her on the furniture, because she leaves fur. That's pretty much the only reason. Also, my husband HATES if the dog gets on the sofa or the bed, because she.. smells like a dog.
I DO allow her to come up onto the sofa if I put her puppy-pillow, or a blanket and then I CALL her up. She knows to get down if I tell her "down". There is a lounge on my porch that I allow her to sit on as she pleases, but she knows better than to get on the other furniture without being asked. That hasn't been a problem so far.

[/QUOTE]

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by threedognite

"Punishing a dog for being a dog is about as silly as looking for a mystical energy to align everything into place."

I don't know how you came up with the above statement but I never said anything about punishing a dog for being a dog.

Quite simply by your suggestion to set boundaries and allow no sniffing, no marking, and no pulling. What do you proclaim will prevent the dog from sniffing, marking, and pulling? A leash pop? Maybe a Cesaresque alpha roll? These are punishments when sniffing, marking, and pulling are common behaviors for all dogs.

Apparently you don't understand how dogs 'see' their world and if you have read 'Cesar's Way' by Cesar Millan, you would know what I'm talking about.

I have read Cesar's Way, and Cesar's way is to use weakly supported dominance theory. I seriously don't hope you enter this debate only to know Cesar's way.

You can train your dog to do back flips, walk on a tight rope, play a piano but if you don't project calm, assertive energy as the dog's pack leader, the dog is going to become unstable if it isn't already.

I beg to differ. I've witnessed five year old children teach a dog to sit, and there was nothing about them that was calm (they were very excited to teach the dog) or assertive (they were just happy to be there playing with their dog). Dogs become unstable because they haven't been trained. Cesar's way, exerting dominance, does nothing more than exert or create an excuse for abuse, which in turn can exacerbate more problems, and require more abuse through dominance. The result is the dog is still untrained, rendering a sense of pointlessness IMO.

Stop thinking in human terms when it comes to dogs. Think like a dog.

Humans have a hard enough time thinking like other humans do, now you want humans to think like another species does? Laughable. To try and think like a dog only opens the door for us humans to be victims of anthropomorphism. No thank you, I'd rather stick with what I actually do know about dogs.

If you're actually serious about dog training, I'd recommend that you pick up a copy of Jean Donaldson's book "The Culture Clash." If you're a person with any reason, you'll dispose of Cesar's way for Jean's way.

[Cassie Nova]

Well, heck! If you're saying "down" when you want her to lay down, and "down" when you want her to get OFF of the couch, I can see why she's confused. (I capitalized "off" because that is another great word to use for such situations)

Now, I'm only basing off of that one confusing command, but if the rest of your commands are sort of like that (in that they have multiple meanings), then you are not being consistent and your dog is probably confused.

I don't know about distractions, because where I live, you either go inside where there are NONE or you go outside, where there are TONS...there's no in-between, so I can't help you there.

ETA: I just wanted to say that my first dog, Scamp, is very well behaved. Never have problems and he remembers commands with little reinforcement. I though I was ready for another dog...well, guess what? Cassie can be a mess. She jumps on people (not training that out of her though, for sports later on), barks at men, doesn't want to do what she's told, etc. So, just because you have had well-behaved dogs in the past doesn't mean you're guaranteed one forever.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by NefAndWord

Not at first, no. Now, somewhat.. but not nearly enough. The cats disrupt her training time, and she seems to work even harder, I suspect she thinks they will get her treat before she does. I've also been trying to incorporate other people, friends and family, to help me with her manners. Can you give me other good ways to train her with distractions?

Certainly for you I will try...but read these first.
ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Generalization

American Dog Trainers Network -- 15 Steps To Obedience Training & Proofing Your Dog

The key point here is to know when to move on to another distraction. Never expect 100% accuracy. At some point your dog will fail at a command, and the first thing I would do is look around your environment to find out why. If you can achieve 80% accuracy at one level, say when the cats are out of the room, I'd say you can try working the command when the cats are in the room. Below 80% and you're dog isn't ready. If your dog should achieve below 50% accuracy, or some other level that's annoying to you, you should choose a lower level distraction, or return to the previous level and improve on the 80% before moving on. It really is all about repetition...among other things.

Hmm. Consistently. I included a command and a hand motion for each from the start.... which I believe was around 6 weeks of age? I'm trying to remember how old she was when we got her. I have her sit, or lie down to receive anything.. whether it's a meal, or a treat, or play time. She also does cutesy tricks like "speak" (i'd like to incorporate "quiet") and "paw" and crawl. I don't quite understand how after 6 months of consistant "SIT" she wouldn't understand that command, or others like it? I haven't changed anything.

Then change everything! Don't expect your dog to associate "sit" in the comfort of your living room for a treat for "sit" at a dog park, as being the same. This again points to generalization and adding distractions as mentioned above. What you may not understand is that the environment around her will predict how reliable she will be with commands. What we aim to do with generalizing and building up the distractions is to improve the reliability in the face those things we know will distract our dog. Conditioning if you will.

She has her "in the house" games for playtime, and outside games for play time. She has toys in the house that don't go outside. She only eats in the house, but I do give her water outside. She LOVES to socialize. She loves people and other dogs. If she sees either, she is far more interested in them than in me.

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Attention

Socialization is great, so long as those she is socializing with aren't reinforcing unwanted behaviors, which relatives tend to do. IMO, working on attention will help to improve command over your dog. If you can get your dog to look at you as a predictor of good things to come, you're more likely to get your dog into a down stay after it just jumped on grandma in excitement.

It's difficult to grasp the reasons she would be so "defiant" when I am always consistent. Make sense?

It makes complete sense. You're only human afterall. I've thrown terms like "defiant" and "stubborn" out the door when I view my dog. These are terms only we humans can define, and we can't expect our dogs to know these things. To hold on to them IMO, only breeds resentment towards the dog we love. And resentment always seems to lead to unfair punishment. That's the reason I mention that. However, if you look at it as your dog just being innocently self interested, and amoral, you'll be more quick to look for ways to train your dog instead of lowering your dog's being by think she's just being x, y, or z.

I don't give her free roam, because she still picks up things that don't belong to her. For example - the shoes off of the rack, or the kid's toys from their toy box. She isn't locked to my side all day, I just don't let her go upstairs without me.

That's fine, I just wanted to make sure you weren't punishing her for no apparent reason. You do have a reason, and it's because you and your dog need to work on "take it" and "leave it" before gaining the freedom.

I don't let her on the furniture, because she leaves fur. That's pretty much the only reason. Also, my husband HATES if the dog gets on the sofa or the bed, because she.. smells like a dog.

Again, fair enough. It's your house, and as long as you teach your dog what you'd prefer instead, I don't see this as being a problem. So long as yo're giving her an alternative solution to being on the couch, all is well.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start a controversy in your thread. But there are training ideas out there that are a hinderance to training, IMO, and I hope I clarified my POV at least with you.

[DBZ]

3dog, CP has read the book you suggested. It would be great if you could read the book suggested by CP (with a willing and open mind) and then evaluate this situation.

I learned dog training the old school Cesar Milan way before I became aware of the more intellectual operant conditioning method using positive reinforcement to shape favorable behavior.

Professional animal trainers such as Karen Pryor have proven these techniques work with everything from Killer Whales, Dolphins, birds, dogs, cats and even goldfish. It would be very hard to perform an alfa roll or leash pop on a whale!

I credit Cesar's show with helping to bring new interest to dog training and behavior. It got me interested again and through that interest I was lead to discover other methods and trainers. After reading, watching, discussing and applying techniques I've come to the conclusion that the operant conditioning methods do work. And when understood and applied correctly is more humane. This gentler style of training can achieve the desired goals while building a stronger bond and trust between you and your companion.

In operant conditioning training the dog learns to think about what he needs to do to get what he wants, not how to avoid punishment.

I have trained dogs in the old style in the past 20 years and belonged to a Schutzhund club training GSD's in obedience, tracking and protection. I mention this just to let you know I've been around a dog or two. I'm too new at this to be as much help as I'd like to be, so I'll end for now and hope you'll be open minded enough to do some research and read CP's book suggestion.

I always look forward to learning something new or better when possible. Thank goodness we're not still hitting aggressive dogs with sticks to make them submit, which at one time was a tactic taught by some prominent dog trainers before the turn of the century!

My best to all,

DBZ