Looking for advice on how to train two dogs at the same time, particularly when it comes to walking. These dogs both pull right from the minute we step out the door, making it very unenjoyable. Both dogs are small (terrier cross & min pin), but I feel like I'm being taken for a walk. At this stage I am avoiding walks altogether, but I want to keep my dogs fit and healthy. Any tips?
I forgot to note, the dogs are well past puppy stage... the terrier cross is 3 1/2, and the min pin is 2.
Any suggestions regarding prong collars? Would they work for very small breeds... my min pin is about 12 lbs, and the terrier cross about 20.
Last edited by kirbym2; 11-02-2009 at 02:44 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
First, do they walk well individually? If not then that is where you will need to start. It does take time, patience and practice.
Once you are able to get them to each walk well mannered individually you can slowly add in the other. You would want to walk one for about 20 minutes first then add in the other. Slowly build up the amount of time you are walking one by themself tho.
IMO, pinch collars for a min pin? NO! What other training have you tried? I honestly believe that a pinch collar has it's use but only if all other efforts have been exhausted. Have you tried a halti harness or a gentle leader? To me that may be the ticket for your unruly little ones
Until you teach each dog individually to walk on a loose leash, you will have nothing but problems taking them out together. UNLESS you have someone to take one of the dogs, and you the other.
Any suggestions regarding prong collars? Would they work for very small breeds... my min pin is about 12 lbs, and the terrier cross about 20.
To answer your question ...YES a micro prong is available specifically for tiny dogs. (a larger size CAN be used) It generally does not matter *what the breed* when it comes to conditioning behavior using P+ as a correction. Question is how skilled are you at using corrections and this size of prong collar on that size of dog? In addition if you are not highly skilled I would *suggest* that you use other approaches that are less likely to result in experimentation that may make matters worse at some point FIRST in this case.
I have used micro prongs on min pin, chi's, ect for a variety of behavioral issues with outstanding results (even have video of it) but the skill set in using a micro prong verses the regular size ones is sort of like the difference in working on a clock verses a watch I would say that one must be quite delicate with the leash movements.
Again the answer is absolutely YES .... D E P E N D I N G
Maybe I overlooked it but the video in the previous post does nothing in my opinion to illustrate how to achieve what it is that you ask? REVISED THANK GOODNESS apparently the entire video did not load for me the first time I looked at it..Never mind
It appears in observing the video that this approach initially relies on the dogs interest/motivation in the treats. The dog appears to be constantly sniffing and looking for the treat (distracted in a way) the entire time. I am curious as to what happens when the dog gets full of the treats or no longer finds value in them? I also noticed the Chi's body action on the sudden stops in being dragged across the pavement. I would agree with using a harness for this approach ( and why I use one when I use a similar approach) to reduce all of the possible/probable physical impact to the dog as this video illustrates a EASY case in that this dog followed the program extremely quick. In some or many cases it can/does take much more effort in achieving the desired resolution. It just DEPENDS
I would hope that the dogs foot pads are not injured in this process and have been conditioned for this particular type of surface. Every approach has something to consider to includes ones ability to bend down over and over.
Once I train my dogs to walk excellent on a individual basis with extreme distractions I then add others on the walk one at a time starting with one on each side then progressing to all (2 to 15 in my case) dogs on one side.
I am 500% against prong collars unless you have an extremely large breed dog with aggression issues! I will agree that you need to start with one dog at a time, teach each dog to walk with you before you try to teach two together! Use the dogs natural desires to your benefit! Dogs like to keep moving so if you stop and have them sit every single time they pull.......they'll quickly decide they don't like sitting still and will eventually get the hint that to actually get to go on the walk, they cannot pull! Now, I know that sounds insanely simple and it is but I also know that it won't work immediately and it won't work fast enough for what we humans expect so another idea is to walk backwards everytime your dog pulls. Definitely teach your dog to stop and sit automatically when you stop. Consistency is everything! Personally, I don't want my dog to react or behave out of fear.....I want my dog to react and behave because he knows that is what pleases me and he wants to please me. A prong collar.......in my opinion is the tool of bullies. With the exception of course for those dogs that simply cannot be handled any other way but I think those dogs are rare and normally prong collars are used when the human doesn't have the patience to train in a softer, kinder manner.
I am 500% against prong collars unless you have an extremely large breed dog with aggression issues! A prong collar.......in my opinion is the tool of bullies. With the exception of course for those dogs that simply cannot be handled any other way but I think those dogs are rare and normally prong collars are used when the human doesn't have the patience to train in a softer, kinder manner.
I take great offense to your accusations in references of character and intent to say the least.
You are certainly entitled to being 1000% against the use of a prong collar or any other tool or method.
Your opinion of calling me or anyone else that should choose to utilize the value of a prong collar a bully/lazy/impatient/unkind ect. is however inflamatory.
As far as patience, kindness and the other insinuations that you make I will simple say that in my opinion it can be much more human and kinder to extinguish certain behaviors for certain dogs/situations in one or two sessions than to feed cookies and allowing certain behaviors to continue..especially over periods of weeks,months, and years... Sorry to offend those who might use cookies...
Oh and not all dogs respond to certain approaches but that understanding is simply a matter of how many and what types of dogs and situations one has ACTUALLY experience in working with ......rather than from reading a book and working with dogs in only select situations.
Someone needs to be lazy and a bully and prong me so that I will shut up because a cookie is not going to work for this dog.
My apologies, my intent was not to accuse you or anyone else of being a bully! I do agree that there is a place for a prong collar but I have seen way to many inexperienced rely on a prong collar rather than seek experienced help. In the hands of an experienced person, a prong collar is a very good tool. In the hands of an inexperienced person...........my opinion stands.
I should have clarified that. And cookies......I definitely believe in rewards but I also believe in using them during the training process and then tapering them off as the dog learns. My own dog receives cookies once in a while at this point but when she was learning, they were a great tool. Of course I agree that this is not a tool that every dog will respond to.
So........sorry for stepping on your toes. I think I simply did not clarify my comments well enough. As with most things.......there are two sides of every coin!
I do agree that there is a place for a prong collar but I have seen way to many inexperienced rely on a prong collar rather than seek experienced help. In the hands of an experienced person, a prong collar is a very good tool. In the hands of an inexperienced person...........my opinion stands.
I should have clarified that. And cookies......I definitely believe in rewards but I also believe in using them during the training process and then tapering them off as the dog learns. My own dog receives cookies once in a while at this point but when she was learning, they were a great tool. Of course I agree that this is not a tool that every dog will respond to.
So........sorry for stepping on your toes. I think I simply did not clarify my comments well enough. As with most things.......there are two sides of every coin!
Thanks for the apology
As seems to be ....the ever ending debate unfortunately quite often is all about all of the important little details to the If's,And's, and But's that somehow equate to all of the absolutes.... and again which seems to equate to the issue of other such generalizations.
Sometimes I feel it is just too lazy a thing to do (among other things) is to generalize.
Thanks for all the replies/advice. I'm thinking my best bet will be to train Pedro (my terrier cross) to walk loose-leash first, and then once he seems to have mastered it, add Rocky (my min-pin). I think I've been lacking patience, coupled with the fact that I'm distracted by a second dog.
What would be a reasonable amount of time to work on this (duration of walk, number of days to develop the behaviour)? I'm not willing to rule out a trainer, but I'd like to give it another shot before bringing one in.
As for prong collars.... I won't offend anyone here... I'll leave those to the experts.
Thanks for all the replies/advice. by a second dog.
What would be a reasonable amount of time to work on this (duration of walk, number of days to develop the behaviour)? I'm not willing to rule out a trainer, but I'd like to give it another shot before bringing one in.
As for prong collars.... I won't offend anyone here... I'll leave those to the experts.
To be honest it depends (not exclusively however) on the method and process you use .
The best answer under this situation is IT DEPENDS.
But if you want a more solid example of time factors I (and many others that I know of) have trained hundreds of dogs to walk calmly on a loose leash under heavy distractions in about a average of 45 minutes (sometimes less) using a prong collar. This includes dogs that have never been on a leash.
But again that is me (and others I know of ) and using a method/tool that you have opted out of.
When using non correction based approaches it is not only difficult to put a average time expectation but I understand that it is common that some dogs/situations can take expoentially longer to gain the resolution you want/seek. Patience might dictate that it could take 1 hour, 1 week, or 1 month in your case... IT JUST DEPENDS I know of many dogs that after years of attempts at training loose leash walking the dog/s still have issues?
NOT to say that people who use prong collars have this issue also ...as in needing/having the collar on to control the dog after a week or two at most to include having a dog that pulls against the collar.
Re: Two Dogs = Big Problem 
