He just won't listen.

apoirier594 · 10-30-2009, 12:32 PM

Hello. I have a 16 week old Golden Retriever, he isn't obeying any of my command unless I have treats. When we are outside and I need him to come or even inside he won't he just looks at me like,"yea..right". Then does his own thing. I can get him to sit most of the time, but when we are in the yard and I need hin to stop I tell him"sit" and he usually doesn't. But when I have treats or he thinks I do he obeys me no matter what. I really need him to obey me.
Also my family gives him a lot of attention like as much as I give him, I told them to stop b/c I think that could be it. They did once before and he was getting better. But I am the only one that actually trains him. What can I do?

RedyreRottweilers · 10-30-2009, 12:34 PM

1) Stop expecting the puppy to "listen" and find out what MOTIVATES HIM to interact with you.

2) enroll in a puppy class and attend. ASAP.

apoirier594 · 10-30-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers

1) Stop expecting the puppy to "listen" and find out what MOTIVATES HIM to interact with you.

2) enroll in a puppy class and attend. ASAP.

It seems like nothing motivates him except for food. But I need him to come, etc in certain situations when I don't have treats with me.

bfoster · 10-30-2009, 12:42 PM

food motivated puppy=always having treats
He will learn and then you can wean him off the treats. For now they are a must. I second the suggestion for puppy class-- NOW--

Keechak · 10-30-2009, 12:42 PM

have you trained him to come? YOu can't just expect him to know what the word "come" means.

RedyreRottweilers · 10-30-2009, 12:54 PM

You have to use your brain. This puppy is not trained. If you need control, put him on a leash.

You need the training class, find one as soon as you can and enroll in it.

You cannot expect a puppy this age to know what you want. You MUST find a way to help the puppy want to interact with you, and you must prevent behaviors you don't want. You get behaviors you DO want by using your brain, and managing the puppy so he has no choice except to make the right decision.

ie: use a leash or a line when you have him out if you need him to come to you.

Inga · 10-30-2009, 01:01 PM

Oh honey you are going to need a lot more patience. This is just a baby at only 16 weeks old. If you are already getting frustrated, you have a long road ahead of you. I agree with getting this puppy signed up for some classes. Training takes time but it should be fun for both of you. Getting into some classes will help both of you. It is a great time to bond and learn skills together.

Also, allowing your family to play with him shouldn't be an issue. You do all need to be on the same page with training though. Make sure everyone is using the same word and Que to ask for certain behaviors. It would be a great idea to have the whole family go and watch you working your pup in some formal training classes.

Golden's are smart and generally really easy to train, you just need the knowledge and patients. You will get there.

apoirier594 · 10-30-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inga

Oh honey you are going to need a lot more patience. This is just a baby at only 16 weeks old. If you are already getting frustrated, you have a long road ahead of you. I agree with getting this puppy signed up for some classes. Training takes time but it should be fun for both of you. Getting into some classes will help both of you. It is a great time to bond and learn skills together.

Also, allowing your family to play with him shouldn't be an issue. You do all need to be on the same page with training though. Make sure everyone is using the same word and Que to ask for certain behaviors. It would be a great idea to have the whole family go and watch you working your pup in some formal training classes.

Golden's are smart and generally really easy to train, you just need the knowledge and patients. You will get there.

I am not frustrated and I'm being patient. Thank you for all your tips. I understand that he is very young. I was just wondering what could help. And if it wasn't just me. Thank you. I will keep treats with me than most of the time, I never did that b/c I thought that then he might always expect them, but like stated above I will just slowly reduce the treats.
I mainly posted this b/c my dad is expecting me to make him perfect, which he understand he can't he is just saying that to me I guess to make him seem right,(I don't think that is going to make since) I have explained to him and now can show him this that its not just me telling him. Also I'm not blaming anything on anyone.
Well again, thank you. If you have any other tips that would be helpful.

Poly · 10-31-2009, 12:40 PM

With all due respect, let me cue you in on something:

A very food-motivated dog is easy to train.

Why? Because you don't have to spend time thinking about what might motivate little Fido today. It's almost always going to be the same thing - a nice, smelly, squishy treat.

Having had to deal with dogs that, for one reason or another, were not very food motivated, determining that day's motivation was always an issue. We've used all the positive techniques for tough cases (Premack training, incidental training, etc.) - even before some of them were named - and the first thing on the agenda was always what the positive reward was going to be.

Inga · 10-31-2009, 12:53 PM

Alright, here is a list of helpful hints

1.) Keep training sessions fun for both of you.
2.) Keep training sessions short (2-5 minutes at a time)
3.) Train frequently each day (20 times)
4.) Be consistent. Always use the same command/Que for a behavior
5.) Praise Praise, Praise, Praise every success.
6.) Never train when you frustrated or in a bad mood or when in a hurry.
7.) Keep in mind that you are teaching this puppy a whole different language and that learning will take time.
8.) Everyone in the household should be on the same page. A family meeting might be helpful to get everyone there.
9.) There is nothing wrong with asking for help and learning from others with more experience training dogs.
10.) All dogs are different and learn things at different rates.

RedyreRottweilers · 10-31-2009, 12:58 PM

http://www.redyre.com/training/nolookie.html

This is the start of everything. Most puppies love it. Start today!

Cracker · 10-31-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apoirier594

It seems like nothing motivates him except for food. But I need him to come, etc in certain situations when I don't have treats with me.

If you have BUILT up a good reinforcement history (lots of lots of practice with the skill "come" using a reward that is AWESOME) it will eventually become an automatic behaviour where you won't need to have a treat each and every time. Recall (come) is at once an easy behaviour to teach and an easy behaviour to screw up (on the owner's part) and takes, like any other skill, hundreds of repetitions...expecting a puppy to learn a behaviour under competing distractions (but Mom there's a SQUIRREL or a leaf or a car or a person or a smell or etc etc etc) without making it worth his while is setting you both up to fail. Make it easy for him and for you by doing GOOD practice and being prepared.

apoirier594 · 10-31-2009, 02:11 PM

Ok thankyou every body for the tips, and for the links.
I will put all of that into my dogs daily training time. I don't really have time right now for classes for my puppy, but I think I can handle this and he will be great. I trained our Rottie but he was very, low key or calm compared to my new WONDERFUL Golden Retriever.

I still have a feeling it was my brother, like he gave him so much attention and I think it confused my dog. He is already paying more attention and tries to please me more, I know it will be a few more months or a year, but I think he was just confused.

Anyone have any other suggestions that would be nice, but thank you for all of your help.

Dog_Shrink · 10-31-2009, 03:23 PM

The only things I can add that hasn't been mentioned already is that it's the anticipation of the reward that motivates your dog... pups at 16 weeks NEED food rewards and you don't start weaning them off until they are just about perfect with the commands. Lastly everytime you issue a command and DON'T have a lead or sometimg on him to reinforce it then you are only teaching him how to ignore commands. All the family should interact with him because you want him to respect the entire family, and goldens are definately NOT rotties. They are about a million times more distracted, hyper, playful, and everything else that makes training a challenge. stop comparing him to your rottie.

Lastly...at this age training needs to be fun, and interesting. watch your tone of voice, your attitude, and your emotion. If he senses you getting frustrated or angry then he won't perform as expected. Think of it as teaching a 3 year old child from another country... you need the patients of a saint, and the skill of a master trainer. Get him into classes or get a good book. I recommend Brian Kilcommons Good owners Great dogs... it's an excellent resource for teaching using instructional play and really helps you to understand canine communications.

didee · 10-31-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

I don't really have time right now for classes for my puppy, but I think I can handle this and he will be great. I trained our Rottie but he was very, low key or calm compared to my new WONDERFUL Golden Retriever.

At dog class last week, I talked to the teacher about the use of treats and how my dog pre-empts me with behavior to get a treat. She said "the dog is training you." She is right.

There are things they will teach you in a class that will help you SO MUCH. Things you are doing (like rewarding with treats, and then asking, why won't he come reliably?) can be explained to you and there are subtle and not so subtle things you may be doing wrong causing the wrong results.

It's an hour a week. You are investing that much time already in your personal training. This can only make you a better trainer, but will help you understand why your dog is only listening when you have a treat. (Hint, he is training you! He's responding to the food, not to respect for your command.)

I am going through the same thing with my pup. I am so grateful for my class and from research and my behaviorist. I find that they rarely agree with each other BUT I get really helpful info from them all.

And I just realized Thursday that I am training "come" somewhat incorrectly. Because she comes when she feels like it (always if there is a treat), but I got info about how to train this so that it's a reliable and non-optional response. IMO, it's the most important command for dogs to learn. It could save their lives someday.

Please reconsider the class. I actually enjoy going. One hour a week and a lifetime of not having to "unlearn" bad behaviors that were not taught correctly...what an investment!

Best to you....

lizziedog1 · 10-31-2009, 07:52 PM

How much exercise are you giving your dog? Young Goldies have tons of energy to burn. Sometimes finding a way to vent off some of that extra energy helps them to focus a little more. Do play games of catch and fetch with him? How about water fun, most Goldies love being wet.

Like others have said, be patient. Also, have a good sense of humor. Goldies can be quite the clowns.

apoirier594 · 11-01-2009, 04:35 PM

Ok, thnx for the replies. I wasn't comparing my two dogs, I was just trying to say I know how to train a dog(like I don't think I'm a expert but I have experience)and know I have much more work to do.

Yea he gets a lot of exercise, we have a rottie and a goldendoodle. The goldendoodle is 1 year old and he and my puppy play for 20 minutes, and it uses a lot of my pups energy. I let him play with the other dogs about three times per day.
I only train him when I'm in a good mood, and give him lots of praise as well as treats. Thank you again, I may re-consider a class, but I think I can train him, he is only 4 months old.

Thnx. -Austin

RedyreRottweilers · 11-01-2009, 04:58 PM

The class gives you much more than training technique. It is a super socialization opportunity, it helps your pup learn to work around other dogs and distractions, and you also meet other people in your area with puppies.

Lots of people, myself included, have no issue training dogs. We still take puppies to class for different reasons.

Faerunner · 11-01-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by didee

At dog class last week, I talked to the teacher about the use of treats and how my dog pre-empts me with behavior to get a treat. She said "the dog is training you."

Ours did this with us. The first command we taught her after 'come' (which we are still working on in distracting situations - she has it down pat in the house!) was 'sit'. She learned that to get anything rewarding - food, attention, her leash for a walk - she had to sit/wait for us calmly. Pretty soon (Within 2 days of first teaching the command/cue) she was beginning to sit down when she -wanted- something, without the cue! She still does it and we think it's adorable but we are careful not to reinforce her just because she flopped down on her tail and is looking at us with the Puppy Face (you all know the one!).

I am using treats now (with our 3 month old puppy) as a reinforcer for behaviors that I ask for, not for ones she does on her own. I figure if she's learned to sit at the door for a walk without me asking, the walk is its own reward and she doesn't need a treat for the sit any more. If I need to command her, I'll treat her to reinforce her attention to commands.

I totally agree with getting your whole family on board. We have even gotten random people we meet on walks to approach our puppy the way we would like, so that she learns how to greet properly instead of having strangers walk right up regardless of her bouncing and tugging. Every person you get on board with training will help your dog learn!

Terrie · 11-01-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faerunner

Ours did this with us. The first command we taught her after 'come' (which we are still working on in distracting situations - she has it down pat in the house!) was 'sit'. She learned that to get anything rewarding - food, attention, her leash for a walk - she had to sit/wait for us calmly. Pretty soon (Within 2 days of first teaching the command/cue) she was beginning to sit down when she -wanted- something, without the cue! She still does it and we think it's adorable but we are careful not to reinforce her just because she flopped down on her tail and is looking at us with the Puppy Face (you all know the one!).

I am using treats now (with our 3 month old puppy) as a reinforcer for behaviors that I ask for, not for ones she does on her own. I figure if she's learned to sit at the door for a walk without me asking, the walk is its own reward and she doesn't need a treat for the sit any more. If I need to command her, I'll treat her to reinforce her attention to commands.

I totally agree with getting your whole family on board. We have even gotten random people we meet on walks to approach our puppy the way we would like, so that she learns how to greet properly instead of having strangers walk right up regardless of her bouncing and tugging. Every person you get on board with training will help your dog learn!

My pup does the sit thing too. She is starting puppy classes on Nov9(so excited!) and all we have really taught her is to sit/lay down and we've done some leash training too. But for example every time someone is having a snack or at dinner time, she goes crazy and pounces on the person for 5 seconds before she realizes "oh wait! I should sit instead!" and so she sits. It's really adorable. We don't give scraps though, don't worry, we just tell her good girl or pet her, or just ignore her. Lol.

For the OP, I really encourage the classes. In my area anyways, they are on Mondays at 7:30pm for about an hour, once a week. And my schedule is pretty busy. I'm sure if you search enough, you can find a class that suits your schedule!

Good luck, your pup sounds awesome!