[Purley]

I often have my son's dog here when he is at work. But this is a bit of a problem at home too. The dog is a goldendoodle - a cross between a Golden Retriever and a Black Standard Poodle. He likes to play bite - nip at your hands or your clothes. He seems not to like you pointing at him! If you tell him "no" he gets worse. If you point at him - which I tend to do - and tell him "no" he gets much worse.

I haven't been able to find a correction for this behaviour. I know he is just four months old, but we'd like to teach him that this is not acceptable.

Anyone have any suggestions please?

[Dog_Shrink]

When he starts displaying that behavior tell him "NO, leave it!" with a FLAT stop sign type hand in his face (not a pointing finger) and tell him to sit or down or ANY command to break the cycle of behavior. If after the second attempt at redirecting the behavior and correcting for failed attempts turn your back on the dog and ignore him for a few minutes. Keep turning even if he moves around you to be in your face again. Only after he has stopped circling you (and with a toy in your hand to give him the correct chewing option) offer him the opportunity to interact with you again but THIS time say "TOY" and offer to play with him with the toy insted of him using your hand as the toy. He is starting to really enter the stage of losing his puppy teeth so you really want to make sure he knows the TOY command and

This will take firm fair consistant effort on your part since both goldens and poodles are retrieving breeds and tend to be mouthy but both are also SMART and love to work pleasing their people so it shouldn't be too bad. Also invest in some Gannick's bitter apple and spray your hands prior to playing with him to help deter the behavior.

Good Luck

[TooneyDogs]

I take a slightly different approach to play biting. The dog wants to play with you...interact with you and the only way he knows how to start that play is by mouthing to get your attention. Yelling at him doesn't teach him anything....he's not sure if you're just escalating the play or telling him that you don't want to play with him.

If you really don't want to play with him...leave. Leave the room and don't interact with him...don't talk to him...don't even look at him...just walk away.

Stop the biting before it happens. Trying to teach him not to bite after the fact is training the hard way. As was mentioned...hold out your hand like a stop sign, stamp your foot on the floor, do a sharp handclap...anything to stop the bite before it happens.

If you'd like the dog to start play in a different way..instead of biting....teach him to go get a ball, a frisbee, a toy or sit polietly for your petting/attention/interaction. Point is...what does the dog have to do to get your attention...he needs to be shown what that is.

[Bella's Family]

Excellent advice from both of you. We are having the same problem with Bella - she gets VERY excited when wanting to play (especially when someone first enters the room) and, of course, she lives to play!!! But she jumps and nips/bites to get attention. This nipping/biting behaviour is not aggressive in ANY way - it's obviously only about getting attention but, of course, completely unacceptable. We never expected this from a lab and we've felt discouraged and at a complete loss. I'm happy to say, though, that we've actually been doing what you've both suggested with some good results.

Amazingly, sort of by accident, Bella has learned about "time-out" - and she hates it! Bingo!! The other morning my daughter came downstairs and Bella was all over her - jumping, licking, biting . . . making a complete pest of herself. So I firmly said, "Time out" and took her to her crate and shut the door. She HATES being separated from us - that's the ultimate punishment - and from that ONE time, all one of us has to do is firmly say, "Bella, do you want a time out?" and she stops, looks at us with that cock of her head, and waits. Doesn't mean she doesn't get distracted and start in again (after all, she just turned 5 months old) but with consistency, she's been improving. The big thing is that she absolutely despises being separated from us and anything that causes that seems to be something she wants to avoid. It took us awhile, though, to realize that "NO" didn't mean anything to her - it was still the attention and interaction she craves and our attempts to correct her were only reinforcing the bad behaviour.

[Dog_Shrink]

In an enthuiastic dogs mind attention is attention good bad or otherwise so I can see how that might have put you in a rut. I'm surprised that at 5 months your lab pup is still displaying that kind of exhuberent puppy behavior. She should have bite inhibition instilled by now. If your kids are able to issue some basic commands like sit and down I would try having them take 5-10 minutes a day and run your pup thru his paces. This will garner them a lot more respect from the pup and he won't tend to treat them as littermates which is what his exhuberent behavior is. Your a 2 legged pup in my eyes so I'm gonna treat you like I would a littermate with the biting and mouthing enticing you to play... go to youtube and find some puppy play videos and see how they interact with eachother and tell me if it's similar to how your pup react to your kids and guests.

PS being a lab doesn't mean ANYTHING. Some of the mouthiest dogs I've worked with have been labs. Being a retriever they are prone more than other dogs that aren't to put things in their mouths to garner self gratification. And at the core all dogs are the same with their mannerisms as far as pack interaction and invites to play. Some are just more reserved or controlled about it.

[Purley]

Thanks - great advice. Mind you, to the lab owner, I wouldn't agree with putting the dog in its crate as a correction. You want the dog to love his crate. I put Cooper on a leash in the house if he is not behaving. Outside I have put him in time out by looping his leash around the top of the wrought iron fence around our pool. That way I can play with my dogs and he gets to watch but not join in.

I will have to re-read the nipping advice. He is really bad with my granddaughter, and he is their dog. If she tells him "no" he runs around and bites her on the backside. He is not being aggressive - just goofy but he needs to stop.

I was out in the garden this afternoon. He started barking and nipping so I tried ignoring him - he just came behind me and nipped at my pant leg - around the back of the thigh. That would hurt if he got my leg. So what do I do about that??

[Bella's Family]

Originally Posted by Dog_Shrink

In an enthuiastic dog's mind attention is attention good bad or otherwise so I can see how that might have put you in a rut. I'm surprised that at 5 months your lab pup is still displaying that kind of exhuberent puppy behavior. She should have bite inhibition instilled by now. If your kids are able to issue some basic commands like sit and down I would try having them take 5-10 minutes a day and run your pup thru his paces. This will garner them a lot more respect from the pup and he won't tend to treat them as littermates which is what his exhuberent behavior is. Your a 2 legged pup in my eyes so I'm gonna treat you like I would a littermate with the biting and mouthing enticing you to play... go to youtube and find some puppy play videos and see how they interact with each other and tell me if it's similar to how your pup react to your kids and guests.

PS being a lab doesn't mean ANYTHING. Some of the mouthiest dogs I've worked with have been labs. Being a retriever they are prone more than other dogs that aren't to put things in their mouths to garner self gratification. And at the core all dogs are the same with their mannerisms as far as pack interaction and invites to play. Some are just more reserved or controlled about it.

Her bite inhibition is actually pretty good - I've worked on that with her from the very beginning and she doesn't bite hard, she's just REALLY mouthy. But it has become her way of getting our attention - and you're right, any attention (good or bad) is still attention. I don't know - it almost seems she craves it more than most any other dog I've ever seen. Could part of this be about the fact that we were home with her all summer and then the day school started, I started a new job? All of a sudden she was left alone for 5+ hours a day when she was used to someone always being home? Today I was off and she literally spent most of the day sleeping in my lap. It was like she couldn't get enough of me. The other thing is that she's easily bored. She'll play with a toy by herself for only a few minutes - last night I was shocked because she brought in a rock from outside and playing with it actually occupied her happily for at least 30 minutes. But the whole time I was worried she'd swallow it or break a tooth (like the vet warned) and I couldn't even enjoy the peace!!!

Bella does treat the kids like littermates - very much so. My daughter is really good about giving commands - but her follow-through is lacking. So Bella doesn't get that she really needs to obey. My daughter is 16 and doesn't really know how to be a disciplinarian - she only knows she doesn't like being harassed by the dog. My step-son, age 13, has about as long an attention span as the dog (LOL) and definitely sends mixed signals. He can put his knee up to keep her from jumping on him, with good result - but then turn around and command her to "sit, sit, sit, sit" in such rapid succession that she can't possibly understand - and then walk away when she doesn't do it. I try to teach him how to do things differently, but it falls on deaf ears . . . the product of 1) my status as a "step" and 2) his age combined with my status as a "step". It's very frustrating because I don't want a "wrecked" dog because of our family dysfunction! I went to the BarkBusters website and did their assessment and it's clear that she's having trouble respecting us . . . part of her behavior is immature puppy behavior but part of it is clearly a lack of effective training. I plan to get a professional in to help us asap. The only other dog I ever had was a love with all of us, but as an anatolian shepherd mix, he was very protective of us and intensely disliked strangers. He nipped/bit several people over the 10 years of his life and it was not fun having a dog we couldn't trust. I won't have that again. I want everyone to love our dog as much as we do.

Originally Posted by Purley

Mind you, to the lab owner, I wouldn't agree with putting the dog in its crate as a correction. You want the dog to love his crate. I put Cooper on a leash in the house if he is not behaving. Outside I have put him in time out by looping his leash around the top of the wrought iron fence around our pool. That way I can play with my dogs and he gets to watch but not join in.

I agree totally - I have really hesitated using the crate as a disciplinary tool . . . heeding the advice of ppl who say it's important for her to love her crate. But she's been with us now for almost 3 months and does love her crate - she'll willingly go and lay down there when it's time for bed, and she actually goes there already when she understands she's done something wrong. We've put her outside, away from us, in the past but with little success - and we live in a cold, snowy climate so that won't be an option anymore in another month or so. As much as I've not wanted to use her crate, when I finally did . . . it worked when nothing else has. So, what should I do now?

PS - Just got a call from BarkBusters . . . we have an appt on the 19th. Good program, although a bit pricey, but it will be worth it to have a happy, healthy dog and family.

[Dog_Shrink]

i'm glad you have an appt. to have this evaluated. make certain you have some one who is versed in gun dogs/retrieving breeds as sometimes they tend to react a bit differently when it comes to mouthy behavior. Most breeds it's dominance or drive motivated, retrievers often it's just such deep programming to put their mouths on EVERYTHING. Usually in those dogs dominance or pre-dominant behavior is just a secondary motivator. I hate to say this tho is that her bite inhibiton is not really great if she's putting her mouth on people.

With everything you included about going back to work and school it definately sounds like she's stressing during those abscent hours (hence the 20 hour love in on your lap. Endorphen release waining because the anxiety is relieved) You need to possibly rethink what you're feeding her to a lower protein higher fat food. For every 10.5 % protein eaten figure you need to exercise your dog for an hour. Exercise does include training and working the mind as well as working the body. Working the mind will actually cut your time practically in half as far as exercise needs. If she is a more field type lab then you DEFINATELY have to stimulate the mind. As far as only playig with toys for a few minutes... well a toy really isn't a toy unless someone challenges you for it in a dog's mind... the the game is ON! Maybe try some more self rewarding toys like those stuffed animal toys that they pull the eggs out of. They have a few varieties in the Jeffers Pet catalogue. Toys that are going to make your dog think. Maybe for those long days when you're not home take half her food ration and put in a buster cube in the place she stays while you're gone. That will keep her mentally stimulated for hours, plus she gets the reward of being fed.

As far as the kids go, glad that at least they try. Half the battle there. The 16 yr old will come around just keep planting those follow thru seeds. The 13 year old ya might want to either tell to not try to use commands at all unless he's gonna do it the right way (not your way or his way) with the dog, and just be the "fun guy" or to please consider it this way. BUT doing that still makes him fall victim to getting mouthed or jumped on because the dog won't respect him as much. Maybe get him a book that he can learn from how to train. There's a lot of great ones for kids out there. I like the teachings of Brian Kilcommons and I know he has several kid friendly training books advertised on his site (I believe. It's been a while since I've been there). That way you don't have the whole evil stepmother stigma (cause ya just gave him a gift) and it's his choice what to do with it from there. if he reads it and learns great then he cares how he interacts with the dog, if he does nothing then I dunno... hopefully he listens to the trainers.

Bottom line tho is your pup shouldn't be putting their mouth on anyone regardless of the reason why. She needs to learn constructive acceptable communications regardless of her motivation for doing it. I can't wait to hear how the eval goes. Please keep us updated

[Bella's Family]

Will do - hope I didn't hijack someone's thread.

[Purley]

A lot of the things you say about Bella are the same with Cooper. If I take him outside and try to throw sticks for him - he almost leaps on me before I have the chance to throw it! Its certainly not aggressive. I think he thinks we are his littermates!!

I guess this is a question of "mother" being helpful without considering all the possiblities. When my son said he wanted a dog - because he works 12 hours shifts and I knew a small puppy couldn't stay home all that time by himself - I jumped right in there and said "That's fine. I will look after the dog while you work."

I had in my mind a picture of a puppy very similar to Tansy my Golden Retriever. But he is far more PUSHY than Tansy ever was. She was not totally docile, but she was far more submissive than Cooper. My main problem is that I have three shih-tzs and Cooper bullies them and gets over-excited with them. Of course, my son has none of these problems because he has no other dogs!

He is very high maintenance, which I hadn't planned on. We have, however, been increasing the time that Cooper spends at home. He "freaks out" at my son's when he is put in his crate. But that is fine because my son closes doors and Cooper has access to the house at night and doesn't pee or poop.

At my house, Cooper has to sleep in a crate. He yips when he is first put in it, but too darn bad! He is FAR too rough with my shih-tzus and I also have a split level open plan house and can't restrict him like my son does.

I have him entered in a "Basic Manners" class starting later this month. He is pretty obedient, but he has no manners and he is too wild!

[Dog_Shrink]

It certainly does sound like a case of the juvenile jumpies. He would really benifit from a manners course. Hopefully your son can go with you so he can reinforce these things when he does have the dog at his house and isn't ruining your good efforts.

As far as playing too rough with the shih tzus I totally know where you're at. I have 7 dogs ranging from 5 pound toy fox terrier up to 120 pound great dane,. Our newest addition, a 10 week old rott pup, has been gradually getting more and more rough with her play with the fox terrier. I have been working on teaching the rott "toy" because the fox will play tug and toys with her all day long, he just doesn't appreciated manhandled. I would have to say in the 2 weeks using toy, about 7 out of 10 times she'll look for it and get it if she sees one laying around. Those other 3 tmes I guess she really wanted to wrestle so she went to my 9 yr old boston terrier (whoi's built like a sherman tank and raised my Dane) and they did come controled mock combat maneuvers for a while, and He remindes her that she really is nothing yet in the pecking order and she'll mind her manners for a few days after that.

With the shih tzus, if they'll use a toy with him then I would tether him with his lead to a yule post or stair railing or something sturdy and start playing closely almost with in reach of him wth the shih tzus. try to include him if his actions are reserved. If he's wild, back up a little bit and take your attention off him for a minute and play again with the shih tzus. After he settles a bit skooch closer again and subtly try to invite him to join in with the you and the shih tzus... keep repeating this until he stops lunging on lead to get with yas and is willing to lay on the ground to play with the shih tzus. Go to youtube and search videos of doberman plays with chihhuahua to get a good idea of controlled large dog small dog interactions. (that dobie is cool. NEVER tries to hurt the chi and could eat his head with one bite). This will at least give you a goal to shoot for and behaviors to watch for.

Always back up your shih tzus by restraining the guest dog. I don't always mean crate. Tethering in an common area with you is also a great way for a ill-mannered juvenile to learn some self control.

Good luck at manners class... remember T.E.A.M work... Tone (your voice speaks voulmes in sending just the right message) Emotion (try to hide your emotions as best you can. Don't show frustration, or fear (I always chew really minty gum because it helps mask any emotion phermones that come across on your breath) Attitude (have that we're gonna do this come hell or high water attitude) Movement (try to maintain a direct a to be on everything you do from walking on lead to insisting on commands. Fluidity in motion. Run a series of control commands like sit, wait, front, down, then treat insted of the slower paced 1 command at a time. I have worked with several hiskies that are so freaking fast not only physically but mentally I had to issue commands like boom boom boom or they would lose interest and go diddle off on something else also look into instructional play (google it) for those spaz minded gun breeds it's a fun way to keep them focused while actually teaching them something of value.

PS forgive any spelling issues. I can talk dogs all day long but can't spell to save my life

[Cracker]

There have been some good points made here. I have seen a lot of male doodles be like lab/poodle x 2 as opposed to 1/2. Puppies of course, only KNOW how to play with their mouths and interaction with humans requires a lot of patience and training.
Tethering is a great idea, as is time outs. Keep the time outs short though, their is little point using extended time outs as he will have already forgotten why he's been confined after a minute or so. This also prevents you from being able to repeat the sequence enough for him to really "get it".

You should also be working on supplementary behaviours as part of his training regimen. Like the "toy" suggestion...giving him alternatives is a good plan.
Work on a strong sit response, work on "give", "drop" and "off" or "leave it" using toys etc and with enough repetition when you see the mouth coming (before it lands) ask for the sit or use "OFF" and then reward him when he controls the behaviour and offers you something else.
In my classes, teaching "OFF" means teaching "dont even think about it" the cue is used as soon as the dog THINKS of something...for example:
You don't want him on the couch,say.
He looks at or approaches the couch...BEFORE he jumps up you use "OFF" (firmly spoken, not yelled) and then reward him when he doesn't do it. Same for counter surfing, jumping up, grabbing things from you etc. Its' very handy.

[Purley]

OK thanks a lot for all of that!

OK - have I got this right? If he goes wild and leaps on my dogs. I tie him to something sturdy and play with my dogs out of reach. Is that how time out works. And should it just be a minute? Or should I wait until he is calm before time out ends?

No, the shih-tzus are not really into toys at all. But I did have Cooper on the leash this evening and I had him out of reach and I was petting Sam behind the ears and Cooper got all excited. So I waited until he was quiet and I petted him then. Usually, you can't pet Cooper - he just bites you.

Cooper does like to play with some little tug toys I got for my dogs. They don't play with them so he might as well. What do you suggest I use as a reward? And if I am teaching him to give me something, how the heck do I get it out of his mouth without him biting me?

I must admit I do get frustrated. I have never had a dominant pushy dog like this. I took him out in the garden to throw a ball for him, but he leaped at me and tried to grab the ball before I even got a chance to throw it. But the most annoying thing is when he tries to bite me out in the garden, and I walk away and he comes up behind me and bites the back of my legs!

Any more tips? Should I be making him sit and stay before I throw the ball? He just gets so flipping excited and goes wild and then I get ticked off and don't want to throw the ball any more. He will sit without being asked - before he gets his food, before he goes out of the door. But its the bouncing off the walls that I can't handle. I put him on the leash and he spends most of his time here on the leash. You let him off and he's jumping on my dogs and they don't like it and then all hell breaks loose and I have four dogs snapping at one another and barking!!

There is a beginners obedience class starting this Sunday? Would that teach him some manners?

[coopsmom]

My Cooper is also a nipper/biter boy. I've had 4 dogs before and never had one that did this. I've tried the making a loud noise when he bites, spraying him with vinegar (someone suggested on this site), holding his bottom jaw and smacking his nose, putting him in a muzzle for a short period... the last one I've had some success with but not always. I've also put him away in his crate for a "time out" but that doesn't really do anything. He is a major chewer and I do give him his toys to chew on when he gets really bitey but it really doesn't stop him from repeating the behavior. He is only 7 months old, but I do not want a dog that bites. It's very frustrating. He also is a basset and I know they can be particularly stubborn to train (my last dog was a basset too and she had her issues too). Maybe we can all keep posting each other with suggestions and find something that will work. I am also going to get him into a class to help me learn more about training him.

[Dog_Shrink]

The tethering thing around the shih tzus ins't a time out it's an exercise to help him gain some self control and limiting behaviors when they're being attended to or played with. I know my lab use to love barreling in when he was a pup and I was having a love in with one of the other dogs. The timeout part of that exercise is when he does lunge jump and bounce at the end of the lead you and the tzus are out of reach and ignoring his juvenile display thereby not (inadvertantly) rewarding or reinforcing the behavior (remember at this point ANY attention is good attention in his mind whether it's a correction a redirection or what have you) the behavior. The minute he settles sits lays whatever praise praise praise and bring the love in a little closer to him. The idea of this exercise it to teach him that calm self restrained behavior around the tzus is what gets him invited to join in the group. Maybe the first couple times you do this give him a high value item like a toy that he really digs or a chewie to help him burn of any anxiety he might have because he's not being permitted to be a direct part of the group. BUT only do this if he is not a resource guarder/hoarder.


As far as reinforcing the give command there's a few ways to do that. Some recommend the trade game. You offer a lower value item like a little yummy or piece of kibble in return for the toy. Another way which is more forceable but might be good with him (since he really likes your hand in his mouth) is to take him by the bottom jaw and press your thumb under his tongue. He can't really bite you like this because he's too distracted on figuring out why you have your thumb in his mouth and second how do I get it out plus you're limiting the amount of jaw strenght he can use by holding that bottom jaw. As you are pressing under his tongue give the "give" or "out" command. When you pry the toy out of his mouth reward him with praise and a little yummy. This way he'll have a positive association with this. If you really want to show him you mean business you can even try a little bitter apple on your hands to ensure he won't try to gnaw on you while you extract the toy. Just an added reminder that teeth on the human equals no good.

I worked with a golden that really never liked giving up control of his toys so what we did was a rapid game of give. He would only be allowed to just put his mouth on the toy (barely) and we'd say "Give" and take it back real fast... we did this about 5-10 times in an exercise and at the end he would be allowed to keep the toy as his reward, at which point you walk away showing him the game is over.

The behaviors you're seeing aren't really dominant persey. It could be considered pre-dominat behavior meaning left to fester it WILL eventually turn into dominant behavior because he can see he can push you around. This is mostly just a case of juvenile delinquent behavior. Testing your patients and seeing what he can get away with. I would absolutely have him in a sit for games of ball. He has to sit before you can throw the ball is great. He learns that he controls the pace of the game by how fast he complies with your commands. The nipping is all part of him trying to control the game. I would end it and walk away (walk backwards if you have to and if he follows you or gets pushy use your NO commands and shoo him off) as soon as he nipped me. I'd be damned if I ws gonna let a little delinquent push me around. Then wait about 1o minutes and try it again. See if he's more reserved. When you end it tho tell him NO... no biting! so he knows why it ended.

Obedience classes might teach him some manners, but I would talk to whomever is having the class to see if they could address a couple of your issues in particular. Any training program is going to benifit your relationship with this dog. It will help you bond and he will truly start seeing you as a leader and authority figure insted of a playmate which will definately settle things down a bit.

I would also look at his food. If he is eating mre than 24% protein you might want to consider a change. All that protein needs to be burned as soon as it's entered into the body (imagine gas in a car). Lower protein and higher fats is a better diet for active dogs simply because the excess fats get stored as protein to be burned later and ALL muscle groups in the dog's body are designed to use proteins derived from fat sources whereas only certain muscle groups are able to absorb proteins derived from a meat source. Figure for every 10.5% protein he eats he needs at least an hours exercise or a half hour constructive interactive time training to burn off those proteins. What does he eat anyway?

Hope this helps.

[dakotajo]

Originally Posted by Dog_Shrink

When he starts displaying that behavior tell him "NO, leave it!" with a FLAT stop sign type hand in his face (not a pointing finger) and tell him to sit or down or ANY command to break the cycle of behavior. If after the second attempt at redirecting the behavior and correcting for failed attempts turn your back on the dog and ignore him for a few minutes. Keep turning even if he moves around you to be in your face again. Only after he has stopped circling you (and with a toy in your hand to give him the correct chewing option) offer him the opportunity to interact with you again but THIS time say "TOY" and offer to play with him with the toy insted of him using your hand as the toy. He is starting to really enter the stage of losing his puppy teeth so you really want to make sure he knows the TOY command and

This will take firm fair consistant effort on your part since both goldens and poodles are retrieving breeds and tend to be mouthy but both are also SMART and love to work pleasing their people so it shouldn't be too bad. Also invest in some Gannick's bitter apple and spray your hands prior to playing with him to help deter the behavior.

Good Luck

That's the first time I've ever heard (read) a person say that they are surprised that a 5 month old puppy still displays this kind of PUPPY behaviour! 5 months old is still a young baby if you will, and Labs especially are notorious for mouthing! It gets better with consistency and time.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong one

[Dog_Shrink]

ANY 5 month old dog should NOT be putting their mouth on you and making excuses saying it's still a pup is just underminding your authority. My lab stopped putting his mouth on me at 12 weeks through training and teaching self limiting behaviors. There is no reason that anyone should let that kind of behavior continue esp. if they had the dog since he was a pup. 5 months is 20 weeks in which you have had at least 10 of those weeks to train the dog (for the most part depending on how old the dog was when you got it)... do you see a reason why mouth inhibition could not be accomplished in 10 weeks??? I sure don't. Hell that's longer than most obedience programs.

[Cracker]

Bite inhibition doesn't mean no using of the mouth it means no pressure/injury when mouth is on skin.
I think at five months a lot of pups should be "done" with the jump and grab but that certain breeds with certain owners are not going to be that good at it. Labs, GSDs, etc are land sharks, take longer to mature mentally and to develop impulse control. Not everyone is a trainer or lives with a trainer so a lot of behaviours that I or you may have under control at five months may continue for longer.

For teaching give I always use the trade up. But just like any other behaviour you are training, the lure has to be faded as soon as the pup starts to "get it". Say dog has low value toy in his mouth, you offer a kibble or treat (it has to be worth "more" to him than the toy) he drops it to take the kibble. Return the toy. Repeat. Then you say the cue, offer the treat, return the toy. Repeat. Then you say the cue, wait for the drop, offer the treat, return the toy. Then you say the cue, wait for the drop, get the treat out of a dish nearby, return the toy. Each of these steps may take many repeats..I am simply condensing it. Eventually the reward is in the kitchen cookie jar. Once you have a consistent give you SHOULD be able to get him to give most anything to you.

If it is something he is SAFE to have, please be sure to return it to him. Taking things away consistently and without a reward can start a dog who is prone to it to start resource guarding.

As for the question posed regarding playing fetch. Yes, the dog should be sitting when you throw the ball..this is like NILIF AND practices his sit AND practices impulse control and patience...it's a win win win!

Training is the tethering.
Timeouts are you putting him in the crate/outside the room/you leave the room etc. We had a crazy young vizsla in class who was placed just outside the classroom door (leash in the door) for ten seconds several times in one class because he just wouldn't/couldn't settle down. After many many repetitions..lol...he managed to calm down and stop squealing.

All these things take time and patience. Puppies are hard for their first year as even though they may be physically mostly mature, their brains are still developing..just when you get one thing under control something else pops up...it all passes with consistency, patience and training.

[Purley]

Tired "quoting" but I kept getting the whole post.

All this is very interesting and useful and I thank everyone who has helped. I am going to print the whole post out so its easier to read.

As to the food - Cooper was getting Orijen. But he got diarrhea the whole time so the vet said to switch him to Medi-Cal. He said the high protein Orijen sometimes gives dogs diarrhea. So now he is on a much lower protein diet.

I doubt now that this has anything to do with the behaviour, but I thought I would mention that Cooper got Parvo about five days after my son got him, so he spent the next week on intravenous at the vets. As I said, that was at the beginning of August so I doubt that has anything to do with anything.

I have had one of my shih-tzus in agility for ages - just for fun - not competitions, and the agility instructor starts a beginner obedience on Sunday. I am putting Cooper in it. This guy has always has Dobermans and his present one is also high energy. He said that when Cooper bites me, I should be laying him on the ground until he gives in. He says I shouldn't allow the dominant behaviour because Cooper should respect me. I've seen that on Dog Whisperer and I am going to give it a try. If Cooper respected me, then he wouldn't be barking in my face when I correct him. I am willing to give anything a try.

[Dog_Shrink]

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT PIN COOPER TO THE GROUND! Alpha techniques are not going to help in this situation and all it will do it break whatever little trust is between you already. A doeberman can tolerate those kinds of alpha techniques much better than a softer temeperamented doodle. This dog can and will out muscle you in an attempt at an alpha roll. I just got done rehabilitating a lab who had alpha techniques used on him as a pup and he was 4 now with issues onlistening and response to commands because he didn't trust his people. After 2 classes using positive reinforcement and making him work to better the bond abnd trust between him and his people he has stopped his fence running, stopped stealing food from the kids hands. Has a good start on not charging the invisible fence line at people and can now be walked on a head halter by his 5'5 90 pound female owner.

What you have is a combo of 2 high drive working dogs and they NEED to know what their job is. They will gladly work for you if you use fair consistant methods not alpha rolls. His issues aren't based in dominance but untrained juvenile behavior. Fill the mind with good things, not the heart with fear and misunderstanding because you're rolling him.

Lastly PLEASE don't put that much credence in the techniques that Caesar uses... he also is an alpha trainer... and the dogs work for him out of fear of reprisal rather than anticipation of reward as it should be. Go to youtube and search Caesar and see all the negative that pops up about him. Even a google search will give you enough info to place doubt in your mind about his methods.

Lastly proteins have EVERYTHING to do with over exhuberent behavior. Purdue veterinary university actually in the last 2 years concluded a study that has linked high amounts of protein in food to unprovoked aggression so it absolutely plays into temperament. Think about it... if you eat mondo amounts of protein that fuels the body and forces you to burn those proteins and you have no outlet to do that you'll go stir crazy. Think of how you feel all caffined up on coffee or redbull... THAT is the closest thing I can think of to relate to the reactions to high protein in dogs. WHen assessing behavior problems there are 3 core elements to always look at first... Health... always rule out potential medical problems first. Nurtition. TONS of behavior problems have been linked to nurtition values not being coreect for that particular dog whether it's mild allergic reactions to ingredients or too high protein or other values that lead to living in that elevated state of anxiety. Lastly... breed perpencity. What is this fella MADE to do. What are the core elements of his contributing breeds? What jobs have they performed and what is deeply engrained in their foundatin stock? You can use all those to your advantage once you have an understanding of how his mind works based on what his breeds have been bred to do... work close with man, guard open property or flocks... hunt small game or foul... all these have different core elements that you can use to your advantage.

Please consider a different trainer. one who is based in reward minded training methods not alpha techniques. There are a TON better ways to get your dog to respect you as a leader. Positive reinforcement goes leaps and bounds further to aid your relationship than force ever will. Remember dogs aren't loyal to us because we feed them but because we provide them with companionship (the food is just a bonus ) Your dog should always want to work for you because of anticipation of reward, not fear of reprimand.