[Captbob]

I recently moved from cable to Direct TV, and I am now able to watch Cesar on the National Geogpahic Channel which I couldn't get on cable. I have watched about 10 shows already. I had seen some posts on another web site about how " cruel" and "mean" his training methods were, posted by other "trainers" or "trainer wanabees" ... Both my grown daughters and a couple of friends of mine, who all have dogs, would look at me like I was crazy, when I would bring up this issue of " Cesar's cruelty".

Now I sit in front of my TV , and turn on the first Cesar show and I am waiting for him to get out the whips and the chains and start choking the dogs to death ... Huh????? Maybe I got the wrong show on, cause he is not doing any of those "mean " things. He is taking dogs that many people would have euthanized long ago , and within an hour or two , is getting them under control. Nothing violent or cruel, just a calm assurance and showing the dog's owner that they can do this too. Many times, it is the dog's permissive owner that is the main problem, so he spends time trying to change the way the owner handles the dog.

I guess it is just a reminder that you can't believe everything you read ....

[FranMan]

Originally Posted by Captbob

I recently moved from teh cable to Direct TV, and I am now able to watch Cesar on the National Geogpahic Channel which I couldn't get on cable. I have watched about 10 shows already. I had seen some posts on another web site about how " cruel" and "mean" his training methods were, posted by other "trainers" or "trainer wanabees" ... Both my grown daughters and a couple of friends of mine, who all have dogs, would look at me like I was crazy, when I would bring up this issue of " Cesar's cruelty".

Now I sit in front of my TV , and turn on the first Cesar show and I am waiting for him to get out the whips and the chains and start choking the dogs to death ... Huh????? Maybe I got the wrong show on, cause he is not doing any of those "mean " things. He is taking dogs that many people would have euthanized long ago , and within an hour or two , is getting them under control. Nothing violent or cruel, just a calm assurance and showing the dog's owner that they can do this too. Many times, it is the dog's permissive owner that is the main problem, so he spends time trying to change the way the owner handles the dog.

I guess it is just a reminder that you can't believe everything you read ....

People here would rather see a mean dog put down then fixed with some harder methods. They would rather just give their dog hugs and treats. Even if it means it take 6 month to get their dog to heel....

[opokki]

Originally Posted by FranMan

People here would rather see a mean dog put down then fixed with some harder methods. They would rather just give their dog hugs and treats. Even if it means it take 6 month to get their dog to heel....

Really? Which people??

[ifreakshow]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/op...erland&emc=rss

This is a link to a critical New York Times op-ed from last April about Cesar Milan. It's interesting reading, whether you agree with it or not.

[FranMan]

Originally Posted by opokki

Really? Which people??

http://www.dogforums.com/posts/2-gen...93-post10.html

[opokki]

I thought your comment might have had something to do with hanging dogs until they pass out.....
That poster also stated that they did'nt believe that hanging the dog would be the only option.

[Lorina]

I do think a violently aggressive, dangerous dog should be put to sleep. There are so many good dogs out there being put to sleep in shelters just because there's not enough homes to go around. Yes, a lot of times dogs become aggressive because of their upbringing, but sometimes, they're just bad seeds, like with people. Something's not right in their heads. I don't think there's any way to rehabilitate a Charles Manson, either. I'm all for giving a dog a chance, or several, but I hate to see resources being used to try to fix a bad dog that could be used to save a good dog.

[blindeyehalo]

Originally Posted by ifreakshow

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/op...erland&emc=rss

This is a link to a critical New York Times op-ed from last April about Cesar Milan. It's interesting reading, whether you agree with it or not.

"Forcefully rolling a big dog on its back was once recommended as a way to establish dominance, but it is now recognized as a good way to get bitten. People are advised not to try it."


That is VERY true, but as I found out the hard way, using reward only with an aggressive dog can be equally as dangerous >.<

I got my first dog, a 120 lb. german shepherd, about three years ago from a shelter. At the time he was a very hyper-active and dominating dog, and had some really bad food aggression. I had this book that was all about "reward good behavior, ignore the bad" and I read its advice on dealing with possessiveness towards food; it said to start putting treats in his bowl when he eats so he associates the hand with a good thing. I tried it and he ended up biting me

I kept on with the positive reinforcement and he only got worse, eventually attacking my mom and then a neighborhood kid. Not bad enough to do any real damage, but he did break skin.

After discovering Cesar though, I realized he lacked any "rules, boundaries, and limitations". When I ignored him while he was doing something undesirable, the behavior would just escalate.

Now, I don't follow his advice down to the letter, but I have gotten a lot of good information out of what he says along with the people who disagree with him. I take what I've learned from both and use it in a way that is best for my dog.

These days I have a very mellow, well-behaved dog. I love him to death and he doesn't hate me for showing him leadership, he still shows me a lot of love back.

But like I said, every dog is different and has different needs. Cesar's advice may not work for all dogs just like that one book didn't work for mine. You just have to find what works best for you.

http://dogphoria.com/wim/web/2ce81af...58b92259e2.jpg

^ My dog. =]

[FranMan]

Originally Posted by opokki

I thought your comment might have had something to do with hanging dogs until they pass out.....
That poster also stated that they did'nt believe that hanging the dog would be the only option.

It is really putting the dog in the sleeper. Like you see on tv in the WWF. You just can't do it to a dog that wants to rip your face off unless use a rope from afar. It doesn't hurt the dog. The poster didn't believe it was the only way, true. They also couldn't say what other way to fix the problem except putting the dog down......

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by FranMan

It is really putting the dog in the sleeper. Like you see on tv in the WWF. You just can't do it to a dog that wants to rip your face off unless use a rope from afar. It doesn't hurt the dog. The poster didn't believe it was the only way, true. They also couldn't say what other way to fix the problem except putting the dog down......

You hang the dog until it passes out and it doesn't hurt the dog ??? You aren't serious are you?

[OC_Spirit]

I can not stand CM!!!! EVERYTHING to him is a dominance issue which is ludicrous. A dog being scared of a toaster was to him, a dominance issue!!! And Alpha rolling is not normal dog behaviour so why should humans do it??? I''m not 100% positive, if a dog messes up I do give a correction for it but I dont terrorize him by rolling him! The more I watch him the more he irritates me LOL

[Cassiepeia]

Me too OC. It distresses me to watch him and listen to his very 'black & white' attitude. He needs to go back to basics and do some serious study time, looking at all different training techniques, talking to trainers who use other methods and perhaps even do a course in dog behaviour. Because, although I am by no means an expert (just a lowly obsessed dog person), even I can tell he has very little idea about how dogs behave.

People like him because he's a quick fix. You can white wash a cracked wall and have it looking all lovely and new....but the cracks are still there underneath. The quick fix is not always the best.

Cass.

[Captbob]

I have watched quite a few shows already, and many of the dog owners have stated that they have already tried one or more trainers and the trainers have basically been afraid to take the dogs on due to the dog's bizarre behavior. If Cesar is so wrong, and doesn't know what he is doing, and all these trainers say that they would have been able to do a better job than Cesar, why haven't they? I have watched some of t he dogs on his show, and frankly, I can't see some of the dog trainers that I have met even attempting to do what Cesar does.

[OC_Spirit]

Originally Posted by Captbob

I have watched some of t he dogs on his show, and frankly, I can't see some of the dog trainers that I have met even attempting to do what Cesar does.

That''s because they are smart enough not to and know better ways of fixing the issue

Alright so some of the people have called other trainers...big whoop. WHO did they call? What methods did they try? Was the owner consistant after the trainer left or did they just leave it as be and the dog revert back to his old habits? Were the trainers reputable in any way? Were the people paid to claim that they had tried other trainers?? Also remember, the show will only put Cesar''s success stories on the air in order to keep his poularity up and make it appear that he has a 100% success rate. Ever wonder how many fails Cesar has had?

[Lorina]

Also remember, the show will only put Cesar''s success stories on the air in order to keep his poularity up and make it appear that he has a 100% success rate. Ever wonder how many fails Cesar has had?

I did see one episode where at the end, they said that one of a pair of dogs featured in that episode (I think they were min pins) was euthanized because the owners could not handle him.

But I still say it's entertainment only. It's not a 15 minute fix.

Just like on Trading Spaces. They don't *really* make over a room in 24 hours with just two homeowners, a designer and a carpenter working on it. And I still say that bolt of silk the designer bought at a street market in Morrocco should not count towards their $1000 budget, unless they also count the airfare and other related travel costs. I want the $1000 budget to reflect things I could realistically buy!

Don't mind me. I've been snowbound and watching too much tv.

[crazydog06]

What he does is what wolves do! I am a firm beleiver in Cesar Millan. What he does works and he is usually a last resort for people. I got my dog to walk by my side now and she knows that I am Alpha thanks to him1 But it is everyone's opinion!

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by crazydog06

What he does is what wolves do! I am a firm beleiver in Cesar Millan. What he does works and he is usually a last resort for people. I got my dog to walk by my side now and she knows that I am Alpha thanks to him1 But it is everyone's opinion!

Comparing wolves to dogs is like comparing monkeys to humans. In many respects they are similar, but in more important ways they are different. I appreciate the links our dogs have to wolves, but I woud never treat my dog with wolf theories if I knew it didn't apply. Recent studies have concluded that dog behavior is different than wolf behavior, and I believe training a dog should reflect as much. Alpha rolling, scruff shaking, and other techiniques that Cesar uses are traditional training techniques based on outdated wolf theories, and many of the originators of these techniques now regret teaching these techniques to the public, because they are often misused, and in the wrong hands or with the wrong dog, these techniques can be dangerous...thus the disclaimer, "seek the hlep of a profession before attempting these techniques." I don't doubt Cesar has a natural abilty to handle a dog, but I also don't believe his techniques translate well to most inexperienced handlers.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by OC_Spirit

That''s because they are smart enough not to and know better ways of fixing the issue

Alright so some of the people have called other trainers...big whoop. WHO did they call? What methods did they try? Was the owner consistant after the trainer left or did they just leave it as be and the dog revert back to his old habits? Were the trainers reputable in any way? Were the people paid to claim that they had tried other trainers?? Also remember, the show will only put Cesar''s success stories on the air in order to keep his poularity up and make it appear that he has a 100% success rate. Ever wonder how many fails Cesar has had?

How many fails has he had? It is pretty easy to imply that someone is no good at what they do, but pretty unfair to accuse someone of doing or not doing something correctly unless you have some sort of proof of what you are saying, in my opinion.

[OC_Spirit]

Same way in that you cant prove to me if he does have a high success rate

[FranMan]

He is on right now with a 3 legged dog.