[EeyoreFan]

My dog is 17months old, we have had her for 6 months.Within those six months we found she is a really great dog,smart,cuddly,everything you could imagine.Shes great with kids.But when we got her(from a shelter) she was unspayed,had fleas/ticks and kennel cough,completely 100% untrained, including potty trained.
How we got her
The shelter had no idea on her history, but we took her out of the cage and walked her around, she was exactly what we wanted.We took her to the vet, got her spayed, got rid of her kennel cough/fleas and ticks.
It took only 1 week to get her potty trained, tought her to sit stay come, heel,roll over ,twirl, basically everything.
She is the size of a border collie,30lbs.I am 5 feet and only 95lbs.When we brought her home she was shy, and quiet and hardly ever barked(still only hear her bark once in awhile)But then after she settled in, got comfortable she is a big lap dog.She even knows hug and kiss.
Oreo is an exciteable dog, we now have her trained to sit at the door when someone knocks or comes in, and she waits for them to pet her, she use to go crazy, run in circles and jump up on them. Inside she is perfect,well mannered.Outside..thats a different story.
She dont listen at all.When she sees a person or a dog she gets really excited and runs up to them to greet them.She is the one dog most neighborhood has that you want to..hide from outside.We literally have neighbors that will not bring there dog out if she is out.
She will jump on dogs and play immediately, and the neighbors do not like it.Most neighbors keep there dogs off lead but i refuse to since .theres a highway behind our backyard.
She will pull me everywhere,heeling does not work outside(she dont listen at all)I have tried non pulling harnesses and many techniques that were requested, like by using hotdogs to train her to heel.She got bored and no longer cared about the hot dogs or food we tried.So we tried her toys, well she didnt care about the toy if it was not being thrown.
Our neighbors have 3 kids, all younger then 8.When they were out playing one of the girls ran up to my dog and oreo got excited, wagged her tail and started to run towards the kids, well for some reason oreo running up to them scared them.They literally ran away and came back out with there father stating*she attacked us!!*.
I explained the situation to the father and he unhappily told his kids not to come out with my dog was out..She is not like this at all inside, she is great with my daughter and whomever elses kids are in our home.
So I suggested to the father its ok if they want to pet oreo , but to walk up to her, but he never explained it to the kids so they are afread of her.
I walk her alot during the day, every two hours for a half hour-sometimes an hour.Two hours at night.We have a decent sized backyard.We play fetch with her alot.We tried putting her in agility but she was afread of the poles.Then we found the perfect sport for her, flyball.But we can not get her into any classes for it because we only have 1 vehicle, and my husband is a soldier in the army.So that stops us, and I cant afford a sitter.
So we just throw the ball and rope around outside and let her play.
Anyways, the main problem is the pulling outside and her being so excited.She had play dates with other dogs but the owners got tired as well as there dogs.So they stopped coming around.She has 8 playmates in ohio (we go there every holiday).Anyways, back to the problem.
She pulls so much (our backyard is mainly of hills) that she injured my knee.I already had knee issues in the past(it was knocked off track when i was 15)and now its the same knee. How can I get her to listen to me outside? When our neighbors do come out I ask them to help me with her(by walking up to her and getting her use to people around her but they simply ignore me)I am a stay at home mother, my husband works from 5am till 6 pm,sometmes even 27hr shifts.
I can get her to sit and stay and heel when nobody is out, but when people or dogs are out its as if i dont say a thing.She will literally get on her back feet and try to get to the dog.After maybe 10 minutes (or so it feels) she finally will sit and look at me like..what???
How can I basically change her attitude outside? If not change then handle it?

[Chels_girl]

I would do rapid direction changes. It's basicly when she wants something and pulls, turn the other way and walk, don't say a word to her when you do this. When she catches up with you in a heel position, praise her, play, treat her whatever, you could even turn around and go towards what she wants again for a reward. Another thing you could do is play Mother May I. It's basicly the same thing, you have a target thing she wants, take a step forward toward it, if she rushes, pulls or moves a head of you, take two steps back and wait for her to settle down and come back. when she does reward her, then try another step.

[EeyoreFan]

Thank you, I will try that tomorrow..also is there anyway to get her to settle down when she sees another dog?? Even if she knows the dog she gets excited and will do whatever it takes to go to the dog.I have tried to get her to sit when she sees another dog but the sitting dont last long.She will whine and jump as soon as she sees it.

[StarfishSaving]

Originally Posted by EeyoreFan

I have tried to get her to sit when she sees another dog but the sitting dont last long.She will whine and jump as soon as she sees it.

The only way to get over this with a dog who is really spazzy is to have a friend help you. This is how I would do it:

Go to a neutral outdoor place with minimal distraction, maybe a yard. Have half a hot dog or some other treat that she can nibble at in your hand. Have a friend with a dog as far away as necessary before you can get her attention on you. When she sits, treat her with the hot dog and allow your friend to move closer with the dog. As soon as you reach a point where she loses focus and won't sit, the dog moves in the opposite direction or at least stops moving while you get her attention back. Only when she focuses on you and the hot dog (and is sitting politely) does the dog move closer.

Once the dog and owner are right by you and your dog is not spazzing out, you can release her to say a friendly hello to the dog. If she jumps and flips out on the dog, the other dog and owner should turn and move away. That sort of behavior does NOT get what she wants.

If she's not at the point where- even from a great distance- she can focus on you/the hot dog when other people and dogs are around, you should work harder on focus. Try a "watch me" command or something, maybe?

[EeyoreFan]

a dog can be at the end of the street and if she sees it she flips out.I will try what you suggested and see if it works.Also will try the watch me command, i think that will help tremendously.A friend suggested just hurrying past a dog if we see one, and keep going.But im afread that is only avoiding the problem and I want to face it.

[StarfishSaving]

Originally Posted by EeyoreFan

a dog can be at the end of the street and if she sees it she flips out.I will try what you suggested and see if it works.Also will try the watch me command, i think that will help tremendously.A friend suggested just hurrying past a dog if we see one, and keep going.But im afread that is only avoiding the problem and I want to face it.

Might also lead to frustration if she can see them but never reach them.

I LOVE the "Watch me" command. It comes in handy in many situations. My hand signal is to tap my nose, and if I have to keep tapping I do but my dogs watch as if they're in a trance lol. My Irish setter is such a knuckle head that when I tell him to "watch me" while he is sitting at heel, he snakes his head around to the front of my thigh/belly to peer up at me head on instead of crooking his neck sideways.

[EeyoreFan]

We have started the training yesterday.The watch me command is really coming along alot better than i thought it would.I want her to have it down completely before we attempt it outside(car distractions and what not outside, and inside no distractions).But i really think by tomorrow we may be able to start it outside.
My friend is going to help me with the dog issue today, she was unavailable yesterday.So hopefully it goes as well as the watch me command.

[pamperedpups]

Check this out: http://www.controlunleashed.net

[melgrj7]

I would actually do the opposite of watch me. I would play the look at that game. Get her far away from a trigger (another dog or a kid) and when she looks at them, use your marker (good, yes, click) and give her a treat when she turns to look at you. If she likes toys better than treats, use the toy as her reward rather than the treats. It gets the dog to assoicate good things with the trigger, and it gets her to actually want to look at you (because she is actually given the treat when looking at your face). This is one of the games in Control Unleashed, which is a wonderful book.

[Squeeker]

I would actually do the opposite of watch me. I would play the look at that game. Get her far away from a trigger (another dog or a kid) and when she looks at them, use your marker (good, yes, click) and give her a treat when she turns to look at you. If she likes toys better than treats, use the toy as her reward rather than the treats. It gets the dog to assoicate good things with the trigger, and it gets her to actually want to look at you (because she is actually given the treat when looking at your face). This is one of the games in Control Unleashed, which is a wonderful book.

Ditto!

I just finished reading "control unleashed". I also have a dog that goes ape when she sees another dog. She isn't aggressive, she just assumes that ALL other dogs are her bestest friends in the whole wide world, and MUST want to play... but the "look at that game" works for both types.

We've been doing this for about a week now, and the shift of focus is amazing. It's counter-intuitive, but it WORKS!

I think EVERY dog owner should read this book!

[StarfishSaving]

Eeyore, that's great- good job on that! I find that "attention" is one of the best things you can train a dog who tends to get unruly. Focusing calmly but intently on you is a great way to "reset" their brains when they get really excited about something!

Originally Posted by Squeeker

We've been doing this for about a week now, and the shift of focus is amazing. It's counter-intuitive, but it WORKS!

I think EVERY dog owner should read this book!

I'm going to look into it- I've had the book on my Amazon wish list but know little about it other than a basic synopsis.

And I'm not sure it's as counter-intuitive as it seems at first. In a way, it is just combining focus training and positive association training through shaping. Sounds like a great method to me. BUT.. a thought I had was this: the method that I mentioned (by focusing more on the attention than strictly positive association) might come in more handy with a dog whose bigger reward is greeting the dog/person than the treat. If it's a trained command, you don't have to worry about failed conditioning by asking the dog to think for itself. Just throwing that out there- I've only used attention methods for this training problem before.

Thoughts from those of you who teach the other way?

[melgrj7]

The only problem I see with using the watch me command (attention) is that you are competing with what the dog actually wants. With the look at that game, in this sort of situation, the dog still gets to look at what they want, and get rewarded for it, so it makes it non competitive (between you and the object of desire) and still shifts focus to you. The shift of focus though is done by the dog voluntarily, rather than being command by you.

Just my thinking on it. I use the watch me command too, but only after I have done the look at that game to shift watching me into the cool/fun thing to do in the dogs mind.

Oh, and the reward does not have to be treats. Actually in this game the real reward is being able to look again. As soon as the dog looks at you and gets a treat you encourage them to look again, when they do you you again mark it and reward when they look at you for the treat (or tug toy or ear rub or whatever is their favorite reward).

[Squeeker]

And I'm not sure it's as counter-intuitive as it seems at first. In a way, it is just combining focus training and positive association training through shaping. Sounds like a great method to me. BUT.. a thought I had was this: the method that I mentioned (by focusing more on the attention than strictly positive association) might come in more handy with a dog whose bigger reward is greeting the dog/person than the treat. If it's a trained command, you don't have to worry about failed conditioning by asking the dog to think for itself. Just throwing that out there- I've only used attention methods for this training problem before.

The only problem I see with using the watch me command (attention) is that you are competing with what the dog actually wants. With the look at that game, in this sort of situation, the dog still gets to look at what they want, and get rewarded for it, so it makes it non competitive (between you and the object of desire) and still shifts focus to you. The shift of focus though is done by the dog voluntarily, rather than being command by you.

Exactly what melgrj7 said.

The "look at that" game has taught my dog that when she sees another dog, she is supposed to turn to me. This is exactly what I wanted to teach her with "watch me", except she didn't want to look at me, she wanted to look at the other dog in the first place. It's like reverse-psychology for dogs!

Now, when Libby and I pass another dog (and this still only works at a bit of a distance depending on the other dog, we're working on getting closer) she looks at the dog, and then looks to me, like "hey, mom, I looked... where's my treat?" and I tell her she's a good dog, give her a treat, and encourage her to look again. Then, after she looks back to me, I either release her to greet the dog, or I give her the command to continue on our walk. She's able to greet in a calm manner, or walk away without straining on the leash to get at the dog because she never got all ramped up in the first place.

[StarfishSaving]

I really like this idea. I ordered Control Unleashed last night!

Eeyore, how are you doing with your pupper?

[Dogstar]

One thing about the control unleashed Look at me game - (referred to from here on as LAT) is that I would NOT play it with a toy reward. It should be a low arousal game, and while it's important to use something that's highly rewarding, I wouldn't teach it as a game to get all revved up about.

[EeyoreFan]

Thanks everyone I tought her the watch me command and had my friend use her 2 dogs.And eventually we brought in more dogs.We did use a bunch of advice given, The clicker is awesomeness.
And now when we are outsideand she sees a dog she will continue our walk and only briefly look at the dog.If she wants to greet it she knows she has to sit and will look up at me with her puppy eyes.
One dog our neighbor had, ran up to oreo when she was going potty and started to play with her.i was proud that she handled it very well!