[aichdee]

Hello Everyone,

Let me tell you a little about my puppy before I describe the problem. She is a 5 month old Entlebucher Mountain Dog. I got her from the breeder when she was 3 months. She had no socialization while she was with the breeder.

Now on to her fear of people. She is very open and playful with 4 or 5 people. However, it took a lot of time for her to open up to these people. Any stranger that she comes across she is extremely afraid of them. She is not aggressive towards the people at all. She just wants to hide from them. She won't listen when there are other people around either. She is completely focued on the fact that someone she doesn't know is around and she wants to get away.

So let me tell you a little about the process I have started to try and socialize her.

-We have started puppy training classes. She likes to be around the other dogs and picks up tricks fast. However, with the other owners there it makes it pretty difficult. She doesn't want to be anywhere near them.

-We go on daily walks. She is good if there aren't any people around, but as soon as she sees someone she gets very scared and wants to go the other way and starts pulling on the leash. A walk becomes impossible at this point because she is set on getting away.

-We go to the dog park once or twice a week. How she is at the dog park depends on the number of people that are there. She loves to play with the dogs but when owners are around she does whatever she can to hide. She will go under a picnic table or bench.

-We go to get ice cream where there are people. My thought behind bringing her when I go to get ice cream is that if I get her a small bowl of ice cream she will associate it with being around the people. Well she eats the ice cream as fast as possible and then just wants to get back in the car and hide.


Do I am looking for some advice on what I should do. I know she is only 5 months old but she has had no progress even with the above mentioned socialization. So I am looking for advice on what I should do next.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[KBLover]

I would like some suggestions with this as well as Wally is similar. When there's people around he doesn't know, he'll either try to run away (and not listen/hear my commands/directions) or he'll lie down really close to me and I can see his hind legs shaking a little. This is especially the case when he hears a kid's voice. If there's a kid around, but not near him, he'll get all nervous and lose concentration on whatever we were doing.

Sometimes he'll jump up on me and then back down and sit and look at who/what's bothering him.

What's really, really weird is that if he lies down and he often starts getting curious about what the kid is down, especially if it's a calm/quiet/gentle kid. One time a little girl was petting him lightly and then just sat next to him pulling up grass. He stretched his neck out to try to sniff the grass and then the kid's leg. So it seems that he WILL act more cautious than scared (which is fine with me) but it seems he has to go through the whole "oh crap I'm gonna die if I don't get out of here" routine first.

I've also tried the "give him treats while the kids are in the distance" method, but I don't see any change. He doesn't act calmer or excited as in a "oh boy, something good might happen to me!" way. It's always the "hey, boss! Let's get out of here!" type of energy.

Whenever he does lie still and act curious, I praise him afterwards. (The only reason I don't during the event is that I read I should be quiet and let him hear the voice of/foucs on the other person during a calm episode like this instead of being drawn back to mine).

Wally does the same thing as the TC's dog during walks. Fine if there's no people around - otherwise he starts getting nervous/frantic. He'll try to pull on the leash, but that's when I stop and re-inforce our walking procedures (i.e. on my left, lined up by/near my leg on a loose leash) only then can we get away from the "trouble". So at least he's gotten better with that. He'll try it at first (I guess "gut reaction") but after a couple times of me stopping, he'll "remember" and walk properly.

Wally isn't a puppy, I don't think (16 months - probably the adolescent stage, though he's a Coton and they supposedly mature slower, mentally) but I figure it's not too late to help him if I can.

[GreatDaneMom]

aichdee:
i want to start off by saying you did a great thing starting puppy obedience classes. this will help you a lot.

first get one person your pup isnt comfortable with. get him far away from that person, like a mock walk. put the leash on and have the other person stand down the road from you and start to walk towards you. before the pup notices their there get his attention. give him treats and praise for paying attention to you. when the person gets close enough that he notices them, pay attention to what he is doing. if he is ok when they are at a distance, keep praising and treating. as soon as they get close enough that he gets uneasy have them turn around and go the other way.

this technique will take time, but he will learn to associate people with treats and good things. over time they will get closer and closer before he gets nervous. the biggest thing is NOT to push him into meeting people.

you can also just have someone sit in your home and have them NOT pay attention to him. dont even look at him. let him inspect them on his own when he wants to. but dont talk or look at him. have them have some treats though and just hold them out when he comes to inspect but dont look or say anything. YOU praise him with "YES! good boy" when he decides to get closer and inspect.

the biggest thing is NOT to pressure him into meeting anyone, as this will only make it harder for him and you both. it takes time.

Originally Posted by KBLover

Whenever he does lie still and act curious, I praise him afterwards. (The only reason I don't during the event is that I read I should be quiet and let him hear the voice of/foucs on the other person during a calm episode like this instead of being drawn back to mine).

no reason you cant praise him during. if you praise softly and give treats he will understand. if you praise after all is done, he doesnt understand why. hes not making that connection. the connection with praise and action has to be quick or they have already forgotten about that and are onto something else in their heads. hence why if you use clicker training the click for a sit is as soon as their behind hits the floor. you are marking that behavior of the bum hitting the floor. if you wait, youve lost what youre marking. just an example...

Originally Posted by KBLover

Wally isn't a puppy, I don't think (16 months - probably the adolescent stage, though he's a Coton and they supposedly mature slower, mentally) but I figure it's not too late to help him if I can.

just figure every dog as a puppy untill they are 2yrs old. no matter what breed or how fast or slow they say they mature. just assume its a puppy. and its never too late to help a dog. my harlequin Lexi is just enrolled in obedience class now and shes over a year old. theyre always always always capable of learning and changing behaviors

[KBLover]

Originally Posted by GreatDaneMom

no reason you cant praise him during. if you praise softly and give treats he will understand. if you praise after all is done, he doesnt understand why. hes not making that connection. the connection with praise and action has to be quick or they have already forgotten about that and are onto something else in their heads. hence why if you use clicker training the click for a sit is as soon as their behind hits the floor. you are marking that behavior of the bum hitting the floor. if you wait, youve lost what youre marking. just an example...

See, that was my instinct because I do perform clicker training so I know what you mean. I'll do that from now to be sure. I guess I should stop reading so much and just follow my gut/feelings more

Originally Posted by GreatDaneMom

just figure every dog as a puppy untill they are 2yrs old. no matter what breed or how fast or slow they say they mature. just assume its a puppy. and its never too late to help a dog. my harlequin Lexi is just enrolled in obedience class now and shes over a year old. theyre always always always capable of learning and changing behaviors

Sounds good Thanks for this and all your advice!

[Annamarie]

having a fearful min pin who will turn aggressive if cornered or confronted, I can only say this. have other people ignore the dog. and when you're around other people, ignore the dog completely and only give him attention or treats when he's being calm. we tried to follow some bad advice given to us by trainers to have other people feed him treats or to pass him off for other strangers to hold over and over again, this just made things worse and lead to fearful urination... not good. the biggest help has just beein ignoring him plain and simple.

[AdoreGoldens]

Hey there aichdee- though im not particularly knowledgeable when it comes to Entlebucher's, i can tell you that shyness is simply a lack of confidence in a dog. What you need is to develop is trust. Although this is better said than done, severe psychological trauma in the past can almost always be overcome with basic trust-gaining techniques- taking walks, for instance, are a great place to start. My family took in a traumatized lab years ago and we took him to obedience training and it simply didnt work. I know it may sound stupid, but i have found that at-home training techniques are more effective (and cheaper) than professional trainers. Plus, you yourself will be trusted by the dog, and not some stranger. A couple years ago I purchased an e-book called 'sitstayfetch' with training techniques and it saved me alot of $$ in training bills.... It cost me $50 back then but i think it's a little cheaper now. Please note, i am not affiliated with this company but it really did help me out in the longrun: here