Hi Cheetah it all depends on the dog and the handler in some cases never! it would be like when do you no longer need your cell phone to communicate with your family members..the world is full of distractions and dogs need continued reinforcment .the average age of dogs competing on a National in off leash disiplines is 6-7 years old and that is with experienced trainers..your average person does not have that type skill ,the collar just bridges the gap and is insurance around distractions
So what if you do want to compete, say, in obedience? As far as I know, those types of collars aren't allowed. When I took Shippo for his CGC test, all that was allowed was a flat buckle collar. I would think that if you can't phase it out in a matter of weeks to months, it would make it impossible to take part in most dog sports. It's a good idea, but I think I'll stick with my clicker.
Hi Cheetah...yes its a teaching tool just like a clicker and lots of people use them that compete in obedience it makes it easier for the dog to learn timing ,as far as I know CGC isn't a competitive title though ?? most people with pets do not compete they need a dog that is reliable around distractions. I would love to see a video of your little guy training! hes a cutie!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamperedpups
Wow, it would suck if the collar fell off or ran out of battery.
I would like to see some of your training too!! and the collar does not fall off anymore than any other collar ??
Last edited by kellytoonces; 09-19-2008 at 02:38 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Wow, it would suck if the collar fell off or ran out of battery.
You can play the "what-if" game with all variables and all things. Seems you don't care for the use of e-collars. Is it necessary to be so sarcastic?
Just let it be.
It would suck if the leash broke.
It would suck if the dog didn't respond to trainer.
It would suck if the trainer got frustrated at other training methods and couldn't enjoy time with their dog.
It would suck if my clicker broke.
It would suck if my dog went deaf.
It would suck if ...........
The collars don't fall off (especially if you attach them with a tight fitting prong collar)
Hi Cheetah...yes its a teaching tool just like a clicker and lots of people use them that compete in obedience it makes it easier for the dog to learn timing ,as far as I know CGC isn't a competitive title though ??
You're right, CGC is not a competitive title. It is simply an AKC award showing that my dog does come when called, stay when told, walks politely on lead, pays attention to me (all with distractions), and isn't afraid/aggressive toward other dogs, people, random distractions. All of which I did train with a clicker (which I no longer have to use, unless I am training something new). Had I still been using "click and treat," I would not have been allowed to take the test, so as with any training tool, I would hope this collar can be phased out once the dog knows what is being asked of him. You are right though. If this is just for the every day owner who doesn't mind having the extra tools around, it does work fine.
Nice videos as well. Hopefully some day, I'll be able to afford a nice camera that is capable of video, that way I can make videos of my own. Right now it's just not possible.
Hi Cheetah..oh thats just a regular digital camera nothing fancy! and the dogs in the videos are very young the yellow is not even 7 months and the black one is 15mons and I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who have dogs they can take off leash out in public at that age around a lot of distractions but there are probably a few who cannot a lot of my clients are older people or have children the collar allows them to work the dog.. dogs are creatures of habit the collar just helps form the habit they will do tomorrow what they did today! ........these are two young dogs I would not be able to reliably work them in heavy traffic without the fact they are reliable because they are collar conditioned http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fLy9lMHsUM and I;m sure its possible with the clicker training too it may take a little longer is all
I;m sure its possible with the clicker training too it may take a little longer is all
Actually it doesn't take longer. Learning is learning, it doesn't matter how the behavior is learned. The e-collar is no exception to the laws of learning theory, so to suggest it may take longer would be a misconception. The e-collar is just another tool or crutch as any other tool or crutch.
Actually it doesn't take longer. Learning is learning, it doesn't matter how the behavior is learned. The e-collar is no exception to the laws of learning theory, so to suggest it may take longer would be a misconception. The e-collar is just another tool or crutch as any other tool or crutch.
Hi Prophet ...I guess I haven't seen that many clicker trained dogs but I would love to see some videos of them being worked out in public.I think the problem might be what do you do if its a large dog or dog aggressive and it decides not to do what you want?? or takes off out of earshot or there is a lot of background noise?
If you're asking what to do in a worst possible training scenario, you do whatever is necessary for the safety of you and your dog. I would hope the e-collar has more value than their use in these rare, manageable instances (and I know they do, but not necessarily for anything you've demonstrated in your promotional videos). Unlike you, I've seen first hand non-e-collar dogs worked in public around intense distraction. A simple Google search would probably yield many videos, but those, like yours, aren't proof of anything magical.
I know that guy he is one of my youtube friends! I don't think he trains with a clicker though i will ask him
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet
If you're asking what to do in a worst possible training scenario, you do whatever is necessary for the safety of you and your dog. I would hope the e-collar has more value than their use in these rare, manageable instances (and I know they do, but not necessarily for anything you've demonstrated in your promotional videos). Unlike you, I've seen first hand non-e-collar dogs worked in public around intense distraction. A simple Google search would probably yield many videos, but those, like yours, aren't proof of anything magical.
I did a gogglke search and found nothing can you post the link??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet
If you're asking what to do in a worst possible training scenario, you do whatever is necessary for the safety of you and your dog. I would hope the e-collar has more value than their use in these rare, manageable instances (and I know they do, but not necessarily for anything you've demonstrated in your promotional videos). Unlike you, I've seen first hand non-e-collar dogs worked in public around intense distraction. A simple Google search would probably yield many videos, but those, like yours, aren't proof of anything magical.
you may have dogs that are reliable about coming around distractions but most people do not, if the dogs you train for people do well with the clicker thats great I;m not sure why you are making it your mission to put this type training down if it works for people I would not hijack a thread you posted about your methods and try to convince everyone it did not work ..I see people all the time on here that have problems with dogs not coming to them??
Last edited by kellytoonces; 09-19-2008 at 04:59 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I did a gogglke search and found nothing can you post the link??
A link to what? A dog working around distraction who was taught using the laws of learning theory? Google Ivan Balabanov and have a field day. The concept of proofing behavior was around way before the e-collar was even an idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellytoonces@aol.com
you may have dogs that are reliable about coming around distractions but most people do not, if the dogs you train for people do well with the clicker thats great I;m not sure why you are making it your mission to put this type training down if it works for people I would not hijack a thread you posted about your methods and try to convince everyone it did not work ..I see people all the time on here that have problems with dogs not coming to them??
Please point to where I've stated anything negative about the e-collar. The concern for the reliability of this tool is real (what would happen if the dog is dependent on the collar and it falls off?). I guess you've never seen a hunting dog lose his collar in the bush. I'm not exactly sure what you're imagining, but it's nothing negative.
BTW, I haven't suggested anything about your methods. If you noticed, I responded to YOUR incorrect suggestions of alternate training tools and methods.
Last edited by Curbside Prophet; 09-19-2008 at 05:11 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
A link to what? A dog working around distraction who was taught using the laws of learning theory? Google Ivan Balabanov and have a field day.
the pager collar was developed by two people with masters degrees in behavioral science so I'm not sure how you think the principles do not apply to that but I don't want to argrue with you if you the the training expert on the forum I was not trying to upset you just offering a different approach that some people might benefit from ,you seem very angry??
Please read where I stated the e-collar was not an exception to the laws of learning theory. What argument do you think we're having? I'm not angry...I'm quite happy actually. I enjoy discussions that lead to learning theory. I think you find my objective views unpopular, but that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. I'm sorry.
your right its difficult to detect tone on the internet! I apologize! I am very passionate about this tool because I have seen the results and how it allows people with limited skill to work the dog off leash like a pro but we are always incorporating new things into the training I love to see other methods in action!
I would have no problem sharing my dogs on video if I had a way to do it. Just thought I'd add - Many dog sport competitors train using clickers including those with Agility, Flyball, Freestyle and Disc dogs. Many top behaviorists incorporate clicker training into rehabilitating dogs with serious behavioral issues. And trainers of all sorts of beasts (whales, dolphins, bears, etc.) use variations of clicker training to get their animals to perform certain behaviors. This information should make searching for videos a bit easier.
