my dogs snaps at other dogs he meets

hurricanefloyd · 01-13-2007, 05:27 PM

My dog is 3 years old, weighs 65# and is very hyper. We adopted him from a shelter when he was 2 months old. They told us he is a border collie/american bulldog mix but everyone seems to thing he has pit bull in him.
He has this nasty habit of snapping at other dogs when we go to the dog park. Some days are better than others. It usually happens when he has a "face-off" with another dog and it ends with snarling, snapping, and growling. He has never started an all out fight.
We just moved and today was our 1st trip to the newest dog park and he snapped at most of the other dogs. He has been to an obedience training class but not in the last 2 years. We only have 1 dog but we do have a cat whom he chases around playfully, she does not like to play with him at all!

What can I do? It's hard to introduce him to other dogs in the neighborhood since he gets so excited, starts jumping up and down, and making what I call "monkey" noises.

DogAdvocat · 01-13-2007, 08:31 PM

First, at two months of age, the shelter really had no idea what breed cross he was unless they had both parents, which is unlikely. And it's also fairly common for shelters to label puppies with more acceptable breed descriptions in the hopes that it might be more acceptable to potential adopters. So you very well might have a pit mix. That doesn't make it impossible, but since pitbulls were originally meant to be aggressive towards other dogs, you may be seeing that coming out.

Second, I would stay as far away from dog parks as possible. Until you get him under control, YOU need to be in control at all times. If you are letting him loose in the dog park, you aren't in control. And if you have him leashed in the dog park, and he is approached by other dogs, you could be sending him signals of your trepedation through the leash. And the last thing you want to do is have all this escalate into injuries. So no more dog parks for now.

Third, get him back into obedience training. If you haven't regularly been using what you learned in the first class, then you both need a brush up. Remember the saying "use it or lose it." That applies to dogs too. If you have been regularly using what you learned, then you need the help of a trainer to resolve this specific issue. A trainer can offer interaction with other dogs in a controlled situation, and show you how to correct your dog when he shows aggression.

Fourth, don't let him chase the cat. This is a disaster waiting to happen. What seems playful to you, obviously isn't to the cat. And it's not just the cat that can be injured or killed with this kind of activity. Your dog can be injured too if he catches her and she defends herself by scratching his eyes. That will mean an expensive vet bill for you, and possible loss of sight for him.

hurricanefloyd · 01-13-2007, 10:57 PM

Is there some kind of a national listing of trainers? We recently moved and we're now 30 minutes away from our old trainer. Also, we trained him with the gentle leader so I think that is what we would like to continue using.

DogAdvocat · 01-13-2007, 11:44 PM

Yes there is, but I don't have that info, so keep checking back. Someone here posted it not very long ago, and maybe they can post it again for you.

Cheetah · 01-14-2007, 03:08 AM

http://apdt.com/ is one. >^_^<

There is another one, but I don't have that one.

Pitbull · 01-15-2007, 12:58 PM

Here you go:

http://www.nk9dta.com/
http://www.nadoi.org/
http://www.cappdt.ca/public/jpage/1/p/Home/content.do

hurricanefloyd · 02-10-2007, 05:49 PM

Update:

We've gone back to our beginner dog training, especially the 30-minute down. We had to leave town for a funeral so the boy was in a doggy-day-care/kennel for 5 nights. When I picked him up, I asked if he was good and they said he was very good. (hopefully they're not just saying that).
So it's been about a month since my first post, when should I consider taking him back out to a dog park or should I keep on with the 30 minute downs? I really don't have any other ways to socialize him so I won't know when/if this is really working.

Cassiepeia · 02-11-2007, 07:52 PM

Personally I would avoid dog parks altogether. He just doesn't sound like the kind of dog that should be at a dog park (that doesn't mean I think he's a nasty dog...it's just that dogs need to SUPER dog friendly and under control at dog parks).
How much exercise does he get?
If this were me, I'd go back to formal obedience classes and double his exercise. If I meet a dog on a walk and he started to react to it, I'd immediatly give a verbal correction "Ah-Ah!" and change direction (teaching him that when he reacts like that he doesn't get to go anywhere near the dog or continue in the direction he wanted).
Might make for an erratic few walks but hopefully it wouldn't take too long for him to learn. Actually I'd probably do that on purpose (meet other dogs on the walk) and it would help if you were in an area you knew people walked their dogs (like close to, but not in, the dog park).

Hope that all made sense.

Cass.

Cassie Nova · 02-11-2007, 08:19 PM

First, NEVER correct snapping or growling, cause pretty soon, you'll get no warning. He'll just lunge. Second, even some friendly dogs don't do well at dog parks because many of the dogs are invasive, rude and have no manners. Third, you may need to see a behaviorist. Some others have provided links, and I suggest you look at them and find one pronto. Also, you may want to try NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free). I don't know the details, but I know that the dog is ALWAYS leashed to you (even in the house) or crated, has to work for meals, treats, play, petting, etc. I would google it if I were you to find a specific way to go about that. It will show him that YOU are alpha, which helps with all other behavioral issues. Good luck!

hurricanefloyd · 02-11-2007, 08:39 PM

Exercise has been a problem since we no longer go to the dog park on weekends and our walks are cut short due to the colder weather and that it gets dark early.

I did a search on NILIF and I found this:

Quote:

To implement the NILIF program you simply have to have your dog earn his use of your resources. He's hungry? No problem, he simply has to sit before his bowl is put down. He wants to play fetch? Great! He has to "down" before you throw the ball. Want to go for a walk or a ride? He has to sit to get his lead snapped on and has to sit while the front door is opened. He has to sit and wait while the car door is opened and listen for the word (I use "OK") that means "get into the car". When you return he has to wait for the word that means "get out of the car" even if the door is wide open.

The only thing above that we don't do is make him down before I throw the ball. These are things that we have done for a while now, they are not any recent changes.

I didn't see anything on NILIF sites about him being leashed or crated at all times. We crated him when we weren't home when he was young but for at least 2 years now we only crate him at night.

Cassie Nova · 02-11-2007, 09:09 PM

Yes, that one is NILIF also, in the most mild form. There are different stages depending on how many issues you are dealing with. I was speaking of the most extreme measures.

A good thing to do may be to start with what you found and if it still doesn't work, try more serious NILIF. IMO, there's no reason to jump right the the most demanding stage when your dog may not need it.

Here's more of what I spoke of:
http://www.greyhoundlist.org/nothing_is_free.htm

hurricanefloyd · 02-11-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassie Nova

Yes, that one is NILIF also, in the most mild form. There are different stages depending on how many issues you are dealing with. I was speaking of the most extreme measures.

A good thing to do may be to start with what you found and if it still doesn't work, try more serious NILIF. IMO, there's no reason to jump right the the most demanding stage when your dog may not need it.

Here's more of what I spoke of:
http://www.greyhoundlist.org/nothing_is_free.htm

Thank you for the link but I do have a few questions about it.

How is crating a dog 90% or more of the time for a few weeks going to help? I would think it would just make a dog go crazy being cooped up like that. Once you let the dog out, how are you suppose to control that energy?

What do they mean by "free time"? free reign of the house?

In step 4, it says that if the dog has a bad day to go back to the prior level, what are the levels?

Cassie Nova · 02-11-2007, 09:32 PM

No, the dog should be out alot (just my opinion...I agree with you- too much crating= no good.) Just leashed and/or always in your eye sight, preferably tethered to you.

In this particular site, I think so. There are so many variations made for each specific dog. Really, you could follow it pretty liberally- as long as they dog works for petting, playing, treats and meals.

Steps are the privledges. Like, for example, not being leashed all the time is a privledge. If you don't leash the dog for a few days, and on the third day he doesn't do well, go back to leashing. Does that make sense? Ask all you want! I love helping people and it helps me learn, too sometimes.

hurricanefloyd · 02-11-2007, 09:42 PM

How do I know when he's having a good day or a bad day if we're not interacting with other dogs? Sometimes we pass other dogs on our walks but we never stop to "say hello". He just makes his whiny-monkey noises and starts hopping up and down on all 4's. I always correct him by saying heel and yanking on his gentle leader and he slowly gets the point. For example, on our walks we pass a fences yard with 2 rather nasty Goldens who are always barking a growling at him (very odd for Goldens) and Floyd makes his noises and looks like he wants to go over for a closer look. Is this dominant behavior or just him wanting to play and sniff another dog's rear?
I could sign him up for another training class but most classes don't want dogs that display aggressive behavior toward other dogs. He doesn't get into fights, he just doesn't like other dogs getting in his face and lets them know if by a quick snap and sometimes a growl/snarl. I don't want to belittle the situation, I just want to make it clear that he's not out looking for other dogs to attack.

Cassie Nova · 02-11-2007, 09:52 PM

Try a behaviorist- you'd get one on one time, and some specialize in aggressive dogs.

What kind of noises? What is his posture like?

Bad day would mean he wasn't cooperating with you- not listening to commands, etc.

hurricanefloyd · 02-11-2007, 10:02 PM

The noises are not quite whining, his mouth is usually closed, the only way we describe it is he sounds like a monkey. His posture is his ears are up, tail is usually wagging, he is excited and hops up and down on all 4's.

I'll have to look for a behaviorist. I did see someone who says a week stay at their house (not a kennel) for $500 is more effective than 16 weeks of training classes. I'm skeptic, especially since I wouldn't be there to witness/do the training.

Cassie Nova · 02-11-2007, 10:10 PM

Sounds like he's being friendly and wants to play. May also be submissive if the other dog is growling.

Yeah, that whole house training thing is not something I'd go for. Dogs learn to primarily listen to one person, and you surely don't want that to be the trainer! A behaviorist can also do evals over email. It's not actually training, per se, just finding out WHY the dog is acting how he is. You can also try homeopathic remedies. People will also email back and forth with you as a behaviorist would, but your dog is on homeopathic "meds" at the same time.

hurricanefloyd · 02-12-2007, 08:11 PM

what is the difference between a behaviorist and a trainer? I don't find this listed on any of the local dog trainer sites.

Cassie Nova · 02-12-2007, 11:15 PM

A behaviorist will ONLY work one on one with your dog and evaluate its behavior while a trainer actually holds obedience/agility/whatever classes to teach dogs to do specific tasks. Behaviorists are more of "dog psychologists" while the trainers are the "teachers". Make sense?

hurricanefloyd · 02-13-2007, 06:13 PM

That makes sense, thanks.

So we've been doing the NILIF for a couple days now. Nothing too serious, we basically make him lay down a times we used to make him sit.

I tried the 3-5 minute sit/down exercise the last couple nights. He starts off ok and then gets slower and starts slumping over when he lays down. He eventually just stops listening. He also sulks a lot more often and gives me the sad puppy eyes. Is he going to get over this?

EDIT: I was also wondering if I'm not suppose to pet him at all unless he is laying down.