[holden12]

HI All,

Before we jump in this whole issue, we just want to make clear that we have read about dog introductions and rude dogs/good dog citizens on this site, other sites, and books. The question is with the play fighting specifically. We are new dog owners and have many questions we hope this great forum can help us with.

We have two dogs, a nine month old mini dachshund mix (Martha) and a nine week old terrier mix (Hildie). We brought Hildie home from the SPCA a little over a week ago. First, a bit of background. Martha is a hyperactive dog, excitable and not well socialized. We took her to puppy socialization classes but unfortunately the handlers allowed her to be harassed by the much larger puppies present. Martha became aggressive after the other dogs did not respect her obvious discomfort. After that experience we learned more about rude canine behavior and decided that we would not return to that facility since the handlers were not stepping in to correct the other pups’ rude behavior towards Martha. That incident, when coupled with Martha’s hyperactivity, results in Martha being a rude pup herself. She is relentlessly excited around people and other dogs. We have worked very hard with her and she can manage an extended down stay when we have company, but she never relaxes. Lastly, we always supervise their play-hell they are always supervised or in their crate/bed(Martha is trained to stay on her bed).

Which brings us to our current situation. Upon meeting Hildie, Martha became very excited. She has not ceased to be excited since that moment. At first, Hildie was fairly reserved. She would look away from Martha, indicating that she was not interested in playing. Martha, however, was undeterred. She paws and jumps and hip checks Hildie incessantly. Hildie is a much calmer dog generally but after the second day she began to play with Martha. For her part, Martha appears to play well with Hildie. She never bites down (we trained her in bite inhibition) and she also allows Hildie to pin her. Although she allows Martha to pin her, Hildie appears to be very ferocious. She bares her teeth and charges. She bites Martha’s face constantly (we would like her to stop doing that because we’re afraid of Martha losing an eye but should we care?). We understand that puppy play is typically pretty fierce and for the most part Martha does not yelp or cry out. We assume that Martha can handle the level of play. She stops when we call “time-out” or “enough” and she watches us (periodically during play) to check if everything is kosher (I guess). The question is whether Hildie is not really playing, but engaging in defensive aggression since Martha is so persistently rude. We do not want to foster conflict between them but we are unsure of how to interpret and manage the situation. The dogs, for the most part, like each other-they have calm periods and both lick each other’s mouths. We have attempted to give each dog an allotted amount of private time with us and just on their own (supervised) so that no antagonisms arise. Any insights? All comments are appreciated!

best,
Jarah and Tony

[Curbside Prophet]

I have a comment...it sounds like your pups couldn't have landed in better hands. The way you described the whole scenario is indicative of your concern and astuteness.

That being said, it's very hard to know, without seeing it, whether the behavior is appropriate or not. I'd therefore recommend a second set of eyes, probably from a certified behaviorist, though a certified trainer may have the knowledge to make a judgment call too.

In the mean time I would continue to manage the behavior as you deem necessary with frequent time-outs. I like to use an interrupter cue and I'll walk to the fridge where I request a few calming behaviors, like sit and down, for a tidbit out of the fridge. Sometimes these tidbit breaks are enough to reinforce de-escalation of rougher play.

There are generally two schools of thought here, and I really can't say which is preferential. One, let the dogs be, and two, be more controlling of the dog's interactions. I probably lean more towards the let 'em be camp, but considering the elder dog's history, that may warrant being more in control.

[Mike in TN]

I'm not the most experienced in the matter, by any means, but the way I see it, I just let them play, even quite rough at times until someone is constantly trying to get away from the other or there is a yelp. Very rarely does either happen.

My dog is a notorious rough player. He's like the bully of all the little dogs. He just wants to wrestle and pin most everybody. He bites as well, but he's never broken skin or hurt another dog. He makes a lot of noise too when he's playing, but I think it's more of whine than anything.

I just keep my eye on him and the other dog's owners. If they seem troubled I get him to leave that dog alone and go play/dominate another one.

Maybe I'm not doing things right, who knows?

Just want to let you know you're not the only one in this situation.

[holden12]

thanks so much for your input. We are going to go see a behaviorist this weekend. hopefully, she will give us some insight. for now, we are persisting in our watch and control method. no danger signs from either of them so far. again, thanks for the input and kind words. any other input, suggestions (even books or videos on the subject), and opinions are wholly appreciated.

[aero4ever]

Here's a video of mine playing. It looks really rough at times and it used to worry me but I figure they keep coming back for more so it must be OK with them. Occassionally there's a yip and if it happens the others back away. The problem I would have is when I took them to the dog park. Some people don't see it as play (I even overheard comments saying they were fighting) the owner gets nervous, which in turn creates problems with other dogs picking up on it.

It seems to me that they have developed their own sense of boundaries with each other which works for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arW0lGQEI9w