[foxthegoldfish]

i cant walk her anymore. i need help, i usually walk Zephyr for an hour every morning but she is so terrible on her leash. she pulls and pulls, if she sees a cat or dog it falls to pieces even more. i have tried random walking, but she is so strong and heavy its really hard to get her to go with me and then she pulls in the other direction, we can go in circles for half an hour with little change. should i keep trying this?

i use treats but she just grabs one and pulls more. we have only had her a few months but she seems to have gotten worse not better, she had little socialization or training before we got her and now she is better with her training but her walks are driving me mad. ive been nought to tears over this more than once and i just done know what to do

ive tried playing fetch to tire her out but she had never played before, so now she has the general idea but when i go to pick up her toy to throw it again she tries to get it too and often bites me (not hard enough to draw blood but it still hurts) and then nips my ankles until she gets it back. she growls and barks at me too. im not a first time dog owner and have trained a few dogs to be really good, but i just have never experienced a dog like this before.

we have greatly improved on her manners and other such things but her walks are a nightmare, and as they are getting shorter and shorter she is getting more unhappy so i have to do something quick. please give me some ideas.

what i usually do is have treats in my left pocket and give them to her when she is not pulling and where she is meant to be, when she pulls i usually turn and walk in the other direction until she pulls again. and when we see another dog or a cat it ends with me draging her away as she tries to kill them (from a distance, i really fear for their safety though) we walk in an area where i know there aren't many other dogs but when we do see or hear on its all over. i just dont know what to do.

please help Zephyr and i. any ideas would be great
note: obedience classes are our of the question as she cant be with other dogs, and there are none i can get to. and i can not afford a private trainer or anything. also Zephyr is a 1year old female boxer x border collie

[Zr.]

I'm not sure if it'd work for your girl, but this is what I've been doing with mine.
She's a nine or ten month old mutt (possibly pit/boxer/pharaoh hound, we really don't know) and had no training and wasn't well cared for before we got her a few months ago. Walking is still pretty awful, but she responds well to a head collar. We started with a halti brand halter and it worked well, but was uncomfortable for her. I got a new one from walmart (not positive on the brand) that she likes much better. She still pulls a tiny bit but nowhere near as hard.
It's not a permanent solution. It's a training tool. I've been using it to get her to a point that she can ignore other dogs and greet people appropriately on walks. I'm also using a click/treat method for when she is walking good and not pulling at all in hopes that it'll get through that that is what I want her to do.
I also think it's good to try and leash train her in your yard or house where there's few distractions so she can get used to walking on a loose leash.

I'm not sure if this'll help at all, it's just what I'm in the midst of trying

[foxthegoldfish]

thanks for the reply, i will get one to try. she needs the walks so that could be a good idea while she is in training.

[TooneyDogs]

All the turning around or standing still doesn't really teach WHERE you want her to walk....3 feet behind? 3' to the side, 3' feet in front or at your side. That's the part that is missing. The treats are not for the no pulling...they're for showing her where you want her to be.
Your turning around is good but, when she reaches your side that's when the treats and praise come out. If she tries to rocket past you to get in front use your left hand as a stop sign to hold her at your side...if that doesn't stop..do a left turn in front of her....cut her off everytime she tries to go out front. The praise and treat while she's at your side is very important...you do not deliver the treat to her...she must be at your side.
For Fetch, use 2 balls or whatever you're throwing. When she drops hers, you throw your's and then pick up the one she dropped.

[alphadoginthehouse]

Zephyr sounds like Daja (only bigger). I bought the gentle leader for Daja and she does way better. She's not happy with it and I hope to work with her to wean her off of it. I think she's why my elbow has been so sore. I have to use my right arm when she's on the halter but can use my left when she's on the leader.

Daja also would (and still does at times) grab a toy she had dropped. She is learning leave it and is doing much better. She never drew blood either but for a little mouth she sure does bite hard.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by TooneyDogs

For Fetch, use 2 balls or whatever you're throwing. When she drops hers, you throw your's and then pick up the one she dropped.

Tooney, I like this idea and never thought of it before. I'll have to try it.

[foxthegoldfish]

thanks for more advice.

i do praise and treat when she is where she is meant to be (on my left side her shoulder by my leg) but she has gotten board of this i think. she used to be really good staying by me and getting treats and praise. but once she gets excited nothing can get her attention back. i will try the left hand stop sign and walking out in front of her.

the next problem is getting her to calm down after we have seen a cat or dog. once they are gone she is still really excited and this is when she pulls mainly, but we can keep going for an hour and she doesnt calm down or after where home even, she thinks they must be somewhere and checks all yards and such. how do i get her to calm down?

i use the two ball thing it works quite well, ill keep using that and work on leave it.

its great having DF here to keep us on track and having knowledge of at least 100years is so cool i think. cheers you guys.

[squirmyworm]

Originally Posted by foxthegoldfish

ive tried playing fetch to tire her out but she had never played before, so now she has the general idea but when i go to pick up her toy to throw it again she tries to get it too and often bites me (not hard enough to draw blood but it still hurts) and then nips my ankles until she gets it back. she growls and barks at me too. im not a first time dog owner and have trained a few dogs to be really good, but i just have never experienced a dog like this before.

If you're into running at all, and you want to really tire your dog out, I'd try canicross:


You and your dog get a terrific workout, your arms stay intact, and it let's the dog "work," which tires them mentally. It gives them a "job." Most dogs enjoy it, not just the types that you'd normally associate with pulling (huskies, malamutes, etc.)

At first it seems that putting the dog in a harness and encouraging them to pull you along would be counterproductive, but I've found that if Mesquite (my former leash nightmare) gets a solid canicross session in during the morning, she is a lot more focused and trainable during our evening walks. If you're also working intensely on leash walking, the dog quickly learns that pulling in the harness is okay, but pulling on the leash is not. I trained Mesquite in the harness and on the leash simultaneously, and she is making decent progress on both fronts.

I also feel that canicross strengthens the bond between me and my dog. Which is nice

[alphadoginthehouse]

So have you posted any pictures of this crazy dog? I would love to see some.

[KelliCZ]

Originally Posted by foxthegoldfish

thanks for more advice.

i do praise and treat when she is where she is meant to be (on my left side her shoulder by my leg) but she has gotten board of this i think. she used to be really good staying by me and getting treats and praise. but once she gets excited nothing can get her attention back. i will try the left hand stop sign and walking out in front of her.

the next problem is getting her to calm down after we have seen a cat or dog. once they are gone she is still really excited and this is when she pulls mainly, but we can keep going for an hour and she doesnt calm down or after where home even, she thinks they must be somewhere and checks all yards and such. how do i get her to calm down?

i use the two ball thing it works quite well, ill keep using that and work on leave it.

its great having DF here to keep us on track and having knowledge of at least 100years is so cool i think. cheers you guys.

Have you worked on eye contact (focus) with the dog

My Casper has some serious leash agression issues also. Since I adopted him we have been working on eye contact - when he hears or sees another dog I put him in a sit and then stand in front of him to cue eye contact - which has a calming effect on him.

I will add that we do go to obedience class every week and I am getting help with this issue. I would look into a class and see if any in the area are familar with working through leash aggression. No training aid is going to work if you can't get the dog settled enough to remember you are there


Edit to add - Casper is not the dog in my avatar

[foxthegoldfish]

there is one picture of her somewhere, i haven't even taken any pictures of her yet lol. i will take some tomorrow if i remember. (keep a look out probably in the general forum)

ive been trying the eye contact thing but i think i need to do an obedience class with someone there to help me as im not sure im doing it right. so if i can get to one im sure ill try that again

canicross seems cool but i would have to work on keeping her frm going after dogs and cats etc first as she just leaps and lunges after them and can easily pull me over

[klip]

Originally Posted by KelliCZ

Have you worked on eye contact (focus) with the dog

My Casper has some serious leash agression issues also. Since I adopted him we have been working on eye contact - when he hears or sees another dog I put him in a sit and then stand in front of him to cue eye contact - which has a calming effect on him.

I will add that we do go to obedience class every week and I am getting help with this issue. I would look into a class and see if any in the area are familar with working through leash aggression. No training aid is going to work if you can't get the dog settled enough to remember you are there


Edit to add - Casper is not the dog in my avatar

I also used this method - slightly differently but the same principle. As soon as I heard a dog bark, or saw another dog I clicked and treated (would work without clicker as well). Then I worked it up to that if she looked at me when a dog barked at her - or if there was another dog she was paying too much attention to and she glanced at me- I would treat her.

I would praise her for the look, but in a calm tone. No leash tugging or reprimanding. Pretty soon she was looking at me first, before reacting to other dogs.

I've let this behaviour slip a bit and she does not always look, but she is stil much much better. She used to be an absulute horror to walk and this was the only method that helped. I tried ALL the rest!

[squirmyworm]

Originally Posted by foxthegoldfish

canicross seems cool but i would have to work on keeping her frm going after dogs and cats etc first as she just leaps and lunges after them and can easily pull me over

That's what worried me at first, too, lol. Mesquite is a little bit less than half my weight, and STRONG. One thing to consider is that the dog is attached to a harness that goes around your hips, making it much harder for the dog to pull you over. But I'm not trying to convince you to try canicross; I'm just proposing it as something you might want to try, or work towards. You shouldn't try a technique or activity that you don't feel will be successful.

The command to use for "don't check that cool thing out" when we're in harness is "on by." I trained Mesquite the "on by" command by simply not stopping. If she stopped to look at or chase an object, I'd grab the back of her harness and just make her keep moving. Eventually she learned that she doesn't get to choose when we stop.

"Ski Spot Run" by Matt Hankenstaad is a good how-to text for canicross, skijoring and other similar sports. I suggest picking it up if you want to learn more. It has pretty much everything you need to know.

[French Ring]

Originally Posted by foxthegoldfish

i cant walk her anymore. i need help, i usually walk Zephyr for an hour every morning but she is so terrible on her leash. she pulls and pulls, if she sees a cat or dog it falls to pieces even more.

Have you considered using a prong collar on her? Maybe a gentle head? Have you done any marker training?

she had little socialization or training before we got her and now she is better with her training but her walks are driving me mad. ive been nought to tears over this more than once and i just done know what to do

Have you thought about enrolling her an OB class?

ive tried playing fetch to tire her out but she had never played before, so now she has the general idea but when i go to pick up her toy to throw it again she tries to get it too and often bites me (not hard enough to draw blood but it still hurts) and then nips my ankles until she gets it back. she growls and barks at me too.

Every time she does it, you stop the game and do not play with her. Ignore her behavior by standing up and looking at the cloud or something else. Start the game again soon as she grabs or bites you, you stop the game immediately and pause looking at something else. Have you done anything like that?

we have greatly improved on her manners and other such things but her walks are a nightmare, and as they are getting shorter and shorter she is getting more unhappy so i have to do something quick. please give me some ideas.

It appears like she is getting unhappy because she doesn't have better things to do. I highly suggest her enroll an ob class, agility class, and maybe try her for herding if you have one in your area.

note: obedience classes are our of the question as she cant be with other dogs, and there are none i can get to.

She can be in class with other dogs even if she hates them. Over time she learns to tolerate them. Keeping her away from dogs only makes her more aggressive because she is lacking a dog socialization skill. She doesn't need to play with dogs, but learn to ignore them if they are around.

[foxthegoldfish]

well today is the day... a sad but happy day... we found her a new home. please note that it is nothing that she has dont to put her in a new home, i am not giving up. the situation is that we have kind of been fostering her. the home she had before was not any good so we took her in but just after we got her our landlord said she couldn't be inside. so lacking that time with us she is unhappy so over the last few months we have been lookign for a forever home for her. it is sad to see her go but i know she will be happy in her new home. you can read the whole story in the general section ill start a new thread about her soon.

im sure she will be happy there.
thanks for all your help.

[alphadoginthehouse]

I'm sure that you have found the best place for her. The best interest of the dog is what should be in everyone's mind when a dog is too much for them to handle, IMHO. That's not to say rehome willy nilly but you want whats best for Zehpyr. Hopefully, you will stay in contact with the new family and can keep us updated. Good luck.