Dominant Personality

erway · 08-01-2008, 10:51 PM

I got a letter and a talk from the owners of the doggie daycare that Rascal has been going to 3-4 times per week. As my previous post yesterday, they said he is trying to dominate the play group and if his dominant behavior doesn't change, he won't be allowed back. I was/am still irritated that every ther time (20+) that he's been there the feedback was that he was "fine" and this came up all of a sudden. I even asked her if she was sure she got the right dog.

anywho... I asked our obedience trainers for some advice on things I could do. They suggested a couple of things and gave me some handouts of "homework" Some of the suggestions make sense to me and others, I just don't know. I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this.

Some suggestions:
Always walk in front of the dog, don't follow
Only give him one toy,put all others away
Only play with him when you want to play, not when he wants to play
More exercise
Make him "work" for everything. Never pet him, play with him, feed him, etc. unless he does something to earn it.
When you do pet him, only do so for 5-10 SECONDS, then say Enough and send him away. Do not pet him again for at least 10 minutes.
Make eye contact 2x day,
Don't pet him on the top of the head, only underneath.
Have him sleep in the bedroom, but not on the bed.

Anyone try any of this? What have you had success with? Any more suggestions?

I do admit that I do have a problem with him only having one toy and only petting him for 5-10 seconds at a time. Especially since he is crate trained and in a crate for several hours a day.

opokki · 08-01-2008, 11:14 PM

Other than more excerise, I don't see how any of the things listed are going to help change his behavior during play group.

The problem is during play time with other dogs when you are not present, correct?

TooneyDogs · 08-01-2008, 11:40 PM

Daycare providers should certainly know what they are seeing but, I'm having a problem with the Dominant Personality viewpoint in this case. Dominant dogs don't interact with the rest of the pack that much...the subordinate dogs go to them. They grovel, lick, groom or just stay out of the dominant dogs way.
This sounds more like poor socialization....doesn't know how to play properly and perhaps uses the wrong social skills.
I'm sure you've had the opportunity to observe Rascal playing with strange dogs.
Did you see good play? Good play is role reversals (chaser/chasee; on top then on bottom) respecting another dogs desire to not play; bouncy, bouncy body motions; play bows; appeasment gestures.

wvasko · 08-02-2008, 07:48 AM

2 things, I agree with opokki, I don't see how the trainer advised program will help at dog care ctr. Tooney says the day care providers should know what they are seeing, sounds correct but again that may not be the case. In Illinois to get a kennel license you must build the kennel according to the state specifications etc. There is as far as I know nothing at all said about owners/workers etc having any certifications. As far as I know it's the same with day care which is a fancier feel good name for some of the operations. I've stated this before many kennel/day care workers are just that workers/baby sitters minimum pay employees. CP has stated about animal behaviourists in rescue shelters etc. Our state has nothing in most places, they are usually just unpaid volunteers. Understand that in most cases they are well meaning, good people, just not knowledgeable. If you think the owners of a lot of these day care places are going to tell you that, you're wrong. In a perfect world yes, but not in the one we all live in. I know nothing about the state of Georgia and I hope there is a different program there.

parvus · 08-02-2008, 10:52 AM

What do they mean by "he's trying to dominate the play group"? No more details?

erway · 08-02-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opokki

Other than more excerise, I don't see how any of the things listed are going to help change his behavior during play group.

The problem is during play time with other dogs when you are not present, correct?

That was kind of what I thought too, but am willing to try since this is way out of my realm of experience & knowledge. I don't have any problems with him. The obedience trainers recommended this daycare saying it was the best one in the area. They said since I got him when he was so young, it would help with his socialization. I am really at a loss because they really didn't explain his specific behaviors that they have a problem with and won't let me back to see for myself (insurance reasons)

parvus · 08-02-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erway

That was kind of what I thought too, but am willing to try since this is way out of my realm of experience & knowledge. I don't have any problems with him. The obedience trainers recommended this daycare saying it was the best one in the area. They said since I got him when he was so young, it would help with his socialization. I am really at a loss because they really didn't explain his specific behaviors that they have a problem with and won't let me back to see for myself (insurance reasons)

I'm sorry but it sounds like they are incompetent. They can't even explain a behavior with more words than "dominance"? The suggestions you got are based on leadership bullshit and it's ridiculous. Petting your dog or letting it sleep on your bed will in most cases strengthen your relationship.

French Ring · 08-02-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erway

I

Anyone try any of this? What have you had success with? Any more suggestions?

I never like doggy day care and I don't think dogs should be staying there during the day. Dogs are pack animals. When they are spending too much of their time hanging out with strange dogs, there will be dominant behaviors popping out. Later it can result a fighting to pop out too.

If you are living with a dominant dog, you should do what they suggest you to do. If you are interested to bring your dog back to doggy care, then IMHO it will not do any much of help.

opokki · 08-03-2008, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erway

I am really at a loss because they really didn't explain his specific behaviors that they have a problem with and won't let me back to see for myself (insurance reasons)

I would ask them to explain more specifically what exactly is going on. I would also ask them to explain how their suggestions will help during daycare. If you aren't comfortable asking directly, you could always call or email them instead.

melgrj7 · 08-04-2008, 12:27 AM

If you brought in a video recorder would they record the behavior they are seeing as innappropriate? Then you could post the video.

wvasko · 08-04-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by French Ring

I never like doggy day care and I don't think dogs should be staying there during the day. Dogs are pack animals. When they are spending too much of their time hanging out with strange dogs, there will be dominant behaviors popping out. Later it can result a fighting to pop out too.

If you are living with a dominant dog, you should do what they suggest you to do. If you are interested to bring your dog back to doggy care, then IMHO it will not do any much of help.

Ring
I wonder what the percentages are, concerning problems in day care and dog parks. I think they are both recipes for disaster. I also wonder in day care the place opens up and owner has it set up for let's say 15 dogs to stay comfortably. Then the money comes in and maybe 20 dogs or more are there not so comfortably, like rats in a maze, when they get crowded there are problems. Just curious knowing how greedy and sneaky people can be. I know that sounds terrible but I have little faith any more.

LuckysJ · 08-04-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erway

I am really at a loss because they really didn't explain his specific behaviors that they have a problem with and won't let me back to see for myself (insurance reasons)

I didn't really like what you said about them here. Not you personally, but that they won't let you back to see for yourself. I never took my older dog to places where they wouldn't let me at least look in the back to see the equipment, how the other dogs were being handled, etc, etc, etc. I can understand about them not letting you walk back there, with all the other dogs, but not even to look in? It sounds like they're hiding something. Even if they are not, them being like that, not even to look around, makes them sound shady.

erway · 08-04-2008, 08:47 PM

I think that I have decided for now not to take him back to daycare. School is starting again in a couple of weeks though and I won't be home 2 days a week until really late. My DH will most likey NOT make up for me being here and actually taking him for a walk or exercising him in any other way. I was hoping to take him to daycare those 2 days a week and having DH pick him up and take him home where he probably would sleep until I come home.

To clarify, the daycare is a HUGE facility. They have 10+play groups. I can see in to the puppies and one of the large adult groups. The large puppy group that Rascal was in was in the back that I couldn't get to or see. I know that s a bit too trusting, but I was losing my mind at the time not realizing how much exercise he actually needs. I've added an hour walk in the evenings to our routine and that seems to help a bit.

Thanks for all of the advice.