[Sookie's mom]

Hi there.....
While channel surfing last night, I stopped at an infomercial selling -- The DogFather, "Don Sullivan's Secrets to Training the Perfect Dog". It's supposed to somehow get your dog trained in record time (sounded like magic to me). Has anyone heard of it? It comes with some sort of plastic prong looking non-shock collar. It just sounded like an informercial should....tells you what you want to hear for only eight easy payments of $500 plus s/h. (That's not how much this thing costs.)
But I am curious about it and does anyone know anything about it?

It gives the website.... www.theperfectdog.com

Thanks

[lewmaster]

I have a friend who tried out this system and frankly they weren't blown away with the results. Usually with these things, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is

[rogueslg71]

i think with training and everything else, you can always do it all yourself, but after you pay, people normally put more 'effort' into it cause they paid money. then they succeed and it gets added into the 'success' stories of these infomercials. but its really all about your own dedication

[pajamajes]

I just saw the infomercial. Sounds like a scam to me. It didn't state one thing about his training methods or what is actually on the DVD's. Just 30 minutes of telling you what your dog will magically do if you pay $200. Bull.

[Loops]

I got this product because we have a boisterous and cheeky Yorkie plus another pup who is copying the behaviour. The elder dog has had us to ransome and siege at our back door, bolting through the house, every bad behaviour you can think of.

I've included my ten year old daughter in watching the DVDs and it all makes sense to her. Our naughty dog is behaving even for my daughter when the collar is on and that's with 5 minutes of her being sensible with training the dog.

As for the use of the collar: You treat it like a choke chain and basically give your beloved dog a bit of a friendly chomp around the neck when it misbehaves. It doesn't want to pull on the collar, our doggy was marching alongside anyone who held the lead and got so much praise for being good she was adorably different.

If your dog is stressing you out then buy this product. I was at my wits end, arguments with my husband about the dogs being out of control etc and, they're tiny, not a big breed. I can now see some light at the end of a very small dog sized tunnel!

Will keep you all informed of progress.

[wvasko]

Many years ago I knew a trainer that had 10 kennels setup on concrete pad. The kennels were 5 on a side facing each other with a 12 ft walkway between kennels. He would get people to bring their dogs and he would put a dog in each kennel and then he would take his dog and do obedience work on walkway between kennels.
He had the owners convinced that the 10 dogs were learning obedience watching him work his dog. I don't remember what he charged 15.00 a dog maybe, he would work his dog 20 minutes to a half hour. He would hook them for 2 or 3 lessons etc. It was an easy 150.00 that he would take to the local pub and start his night job drinking. We are much more sophisticated now we have dog psychics, Internet, infomercials etc. etc. etc. There is always somebody out there that will take your money if you are that silly. The real secret of dog training is work and lots of it not doo-dads. My opinion Only.

When I was done writing this I read an entry about success with the product. It said a friendly chomp with the collar and it worked great just like a choke collar. Well a choke collar for a small dog is about 5.00.
__________________
Dinosaur Dog Trainer

[Loops]

I intend to use this product to get some results that we can use. i.e. we now know that the naughty dog is intelligent enough to be trained, it is a tool, not an answer to every dog training problem. Our other Yorkie is totally different. We need a reprieve from the bad behaviour then, we can work on it after that, without the collar. We are emotionally abused by this cute little thing and for the price it is like a magical open door. It cost me about £40 but it's like we've just been shown that our dog is being a little monster and she CAN be trained. That's all we needed.

I do think that the product is over priced and I do believe that you should be able to train your dog without it! Sometimes though, it doesn't work out the way you wanted. The DVD is full of helpful advice which is not related to the training method, it's just common sense that you can see and hear and be reminded about when you've lost your wits and are totally taken over. I'm not kidding you at all when I say that in our house this tiny dog is ruling the roost and creating so much stress it's unbelievable. We love dogs.

Tinkerbelle is now "staying on her bed when told, going back to her bed when told, not pulling on the lease during walks, sitting, lying down, staying when told....all in half an hour over 2 days....it's ritillin for this particular canine.

I have had Yorkshire terriers in our family since I was a child and we have always been able to train them in the old fashioned way. Not this one though! She's barking her head off right this minute and it's 10 to 1 in the morning!

Problem about barking is I don't want to sleep next to the dogs waiting for her to bark so I can give her a tugging chomp on her expensive plastic collar.

So that you know what the chomp is.........

The collar has large, blunt plastic teeth on the inside. You pull it like a choke chain and it gives them a friendly "chomp" that they can't ignore.

Call it cruel if you like but the teeth are totally blunt and cruel is me getting my ankle snapped in little jaws that I kick out at. Dog thinks it's great fun when my hands are full off shopping bags.

Don't mock the product until you've used it and come out of an abusive relationship with your little pal and smiling about it.

I should post a video I suppose

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by Loops

I intend to use this product to get some results that we can use. i.e. we now know that the naughty dog is intelligent enough to be trained, it is a tool, not an answer to every dog training problem. Our other Yorkie is totally different. We need a reprieve from the bad behaviour then, we can work on it after that, without the collar. We are emotionally abused by this cute little thing and for the price it is like a magical open door. It cost me about £40 but it's like we've just been shown that our dog is being a little monster and she CAN be trained. That's all we needed.

I do think that the product is over priced and I do believe that you should be able to train your dog without it! Sometimes though, it doesn't work out the way you wanted. The DVD is full of helpful advice which is not related to the training method, it's just common sense that you can see and hear and be reminded about when you've lost your wits and are totally taken over. I'm not kidding you at all when I say that in our house this tiny dog is ruling the roost and creating so much stress it's unbelievable. We love dogs.

Tinkerbelle is now "staying on her bed when told, going back to her bed when told, not pulling on the lease during walks, sitting, lying down, staying when told....all in half an hour over 2 days....it's ritillin for this particular canine.

I have had Yorkshire terriers in our family since I was a child and we have always been able to train them in the old fashioned way. Not this one though! She's barking her head off right this minute and it's 10 to 1 in the morning!

Problem about barking is I don't want to sleep next to the dogs waiting for her to bark so I can give her a tugging chomp on her expensive plastic collar.

So that you know what the chomp is.........

The collar has large, blunt plastic teeth on the inside. You pull it like a choke chain and it gives them a friendly "chomp" that they can't ignore.

Call it cruel if you like but the teeth are totally blunt and cruel is me getting my ankle snapped in little jaws that I kick out at. Dog thinks it's great fun when my hands are full off shopping bags.

Don't mock the product until you've used it and come out of an abusive relationship with your little pal and smiling about it.

I should post a video I suppose

Loops
I did not say anything about cruel, as I am primarily a prong collar trainer. I don't like or use choke collars. I was not interested in training methods just rip off artists. This collar basically sounds like a plastic pinch collar, if you're getting results keep up the good work.

[Loops]

Don't worry, I wasn't feeling like that at all. It's that old reading between the lines thing again. Thanks for your politeness and I'm sorry if my post read as though I am upset in any way.

Collar is still working a treat though!!!!

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by pajamajes

I just saw the infomercial. Sounds like a scam to me. It didn't state one thing about his training methods or what is actually on the DVD's. Just 30 minutes of telling you what your dog will magically do if you pay $200. Bull.

Where did you get the $200.00? I see it as 2 payments of $29.95......

Originally Posted by Loops

I intend to use this product to get some results that we can use. i.e. we now know that the naughty dog is intelligent enough to be trained, it is a tool, not an answer to every dog training problem. Our other Yorkie is totally different. We need a reprieve from the bad behaviour then, we can work on it after that, without the collar. We are emotionally abused by this cute little thing and for the price it is like a magical open door. It cost me about £40 but it's like we've just been shown that our dog is being a little monster and she CAN be trained. That's all we needed.

I do think that the product is over priced and I do believe that you should be able to train your dog without it! Sometimes though, it doesn't work out the way you wanted. The DVD is full of helpful advice which is not related to the training method, it's just common sense that you can see and hear and be reminded about when you've lost your wits and are totally taken over. I'm not kidding you at all when I say that in our house this tiny dog is ruling the roost and creating so much stress it's unbelievable. We love dogs.

Tinkerbelle is now "staying on her bed when told, going back to her bed when told, not pulling on the lease during walks, sitting, lying down, staying when told....all in half an hour over 2 days....it's ritillin for this particular canine.

I have had Yorkshire terriers in our family since I was a child and we have always been able to train them in the old fashioned way. Not this one though! She's barking her head off right this minute and it's 10 to 1 in the morning!

Problem about barking is I don't want to sleep next to the dogs waiting for her to bark so I can give her a tugging chomp on her expensive plastic collar.

So that you know what the chomp is.........

The collar has large, blunt plastic teeth on the inside. You pull it like a choke chain and it gives them a friendly "chomp" that they can't ignore.

Call it cruel if you like but the teeth are totally blunt and cruel is me getting my ankle snapped in little jaws that I kick out at. Dog thinks it's great fun when my hands are full off shopping bags.

Don't mock the product until you've used it and come out of an abusive relationship with your little pal and smiling about it.

I should post a video I suppose

Try using this program on a hardened dog like a heeler. I'm sure the results will stun you. You say that you give the dog a "Friendly Chomp" with the collar? I've tried using a Prong collar with my Betty, and it works on the same basis, but some feel they are a little more harsh than the plastic ones, but they both work on the same principle. Working with Betty in environments where she was reactive, what did that technique do? It elevated her reactivity. I was introduced to the prong by my trainer here to work on her issues. Well, it didn't take 2 days of trying it that I told the trainer, NO MORE PRONG. I still use it in training for Rally with Betty and Nell for Obedience, but only for better control. It's not used to give a "Friendly Chomp". And once I get them where I want them, then I plan on slowly phasing out the prong and work towards using just a flat collar.

Edit:
I did see the video where the gal had a Queensland Heeler, and she was impressed with her results. Not all Heelers are hardened dogs, but there are some out there, like my Betty. It almost makes me think that maybe she's been worked on with the prong in a negative way prior to me getting her. When I would give that "Friendly Chomp", it would only do one thing, turn on a light switch. Full Blown Lunging.

Another Edit:
After reading some more, I came across this. This is kind of hard for me to handle....

Q10: Don’s show claims, “No more fattening treat training!” Will I never use treats as part of Don Sullivan’s “Secrets to Training the Perfect Dog” System?

A: You will never use treats; ever. Treats are not only unnecessary, but they can actually be detrimental to the training process for a number of reasons which are explained in Don Sullivan’s training DVDs. There is absolutely no correlation between the new-age method of treat training and the way dogs deal with each other in their own world. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. By using Don’s System, your relationship with your dog will be based on true love and respect, with the rewards of praise and freedom. You will no longer have to attempt to “buy” your dog’s attention or affection. For more information, CLICK HERE to read Don’s Training Philosophy.

[Loops]

When you get the product delivered there is a quick start manual just like with a DVD player. It mentions that use of the collar can bring about aggressive behaviour from your dog. Not to use it around children if your dog shows aggressive behaviour also. There is a disclaimer and so on.

I remember that 20 years ago I lived with a boyfriend and he had a 10 month old Doberman bitch who was being just that! He ran a dog racing track and was advised in an old fashioned way by seasoned greyhound owners that next time the dog showed her teeth then to go to town on her in a full body fight and show her who's boss. It was an awful sight to behold and the dog (Tara) ended up whimpering in the corner feeling very sorry for herself.

It was quite a frightening thing at the time, all snarls and shouting but, she turned into the most wonderful animal who would even bend her head on your lap on command to have her ears cleaned with a cotton bud. Soft as butter! She went from being the scurge of the neighbourhood to being the friendliest Doberman anyone had ever met.

I obviously don't recommend that treatment at all (I'm no pro or similar) and all I'm trying to say is that different circumstances can sometimes demand extreme measures. If you did that kind of thing now you'd be arrested for cruelty with the dog demanding to see it's lawyer!

Here is the link for purchasing the collar and DVDs from England which shows the price etc. £39.95 plus £6.95 P&P.
http://www.thanedirect.co.uk/product...perfectdog.php

Here is a long snippet from the suppliers site:
Hi don
I've just found your web page, I'm one of the people that has used lots of different collars and other training methods? I was wondering if I could use this collar for one of my wee dogs who is aggressive towards my wee weakling there's only three months between them and when one was 6 weeks pregnant she attacked the weak one and since then it's been hell that was one and half year's ago. Would this help me train her to stop trying to kill her. I now have 5 wee dogs. Please HELP.
I hope to hear from you soon.
My Regards Maggie

Thane says:
Hi Maggie
We assume yo have also discussed this with your vet. If you have a generally aggressive dog, Don advises specific care and you should read more on his site about this.
The Perfect Dog system is comprehensive and may be right for you. The system is ostensibly a DVD package which has about 3 hours of footage and you need to take time to watch this. Don's DVD package teaches you to use voice and hand commands and creates a respectful environment in a safe and gentle way.
There is a command collar which is NOT a “pinch collar” - it does not use prongs. The collar has a few very dull (certainly not sharp!), plastic toggles that are more gentle than a prong, pinch or choke collars which Don does not use.
The goal is to only use this training collar for 2-4 weeks after which time you are ready to move on. To clarify: The methods do not use food or treats and there is positive reinforcement and occasional “corrections” which are LIGHT pulls on the collar.
There are MANY warnings and discussions about how little force is actually necessary. We would never advocate any sort of cruelty and have been reassured by Don and his team as well as many of his clients that this system works gently.

Don's goal is to get you to be fully “off leash capable” within 4 weeks.

We suggest you give it a go and if unsure you can take it to your vets and they will talk you through it too. If the vet does not think it is useful you have a money back guarantee! But so far we have some great feedback from customers who have telephoned us to buy extra balls or even more collars for other dogs.

[DogGoneGood]

Looks to work about the same as a prong collar... which, through the company I get them from, is about $10.00. Also their 'freedom training line" looks exactly like the rope you can buy at a hardware store for dirt cheep... you can buy clips at hardware stores for dirt cheep as well

wvasko, your story about your friend training by "demonstraiting to other dogs" made me laugh so hard. Thanks for the giggle

[Curbside Prophet]

Jerk and puke methods, no matter what kind of 'tool' you're using or how "gentle" you claim them to be, are still jerk and puke methods. Furthermore, anyone who doesn't acknowledge food as a beneficial reinforcer, and would go out of their way to claim they are detrimental, does not understand the basic principles of learning theory. For that, this dude would never see a dollar of mine.

[Loops]

Prong, pinch and choke collars all seem to have a bit of a bad name over here in the UK. Choke collars no where near as much. Not sure why?! Can anyone enlighten me?

It won't be long before a Dogfather style collar is more widely available i.e. something that doesn't look as harsh as metal, all plastic.

It's all rather silly really, you can buy an electronic collar that zaps your dogs to certain degrees of discomfort, you can buy anti barking sonic devices that could impede their hearing and result in behavioural problems far worse than those already being experienced. You can buy devices that stop your dog from crossing the garden perimeter, put down rotten smelling chemicals on your garden which are bad for the environment. Perhaps get them neutered because no one wants a pup sired or whelped from a badly behaved dog do they, so why not take that ultimate step and be done with it, guaranteed compliance?

This is very clever marketing from Thane UK and if it sells over the next few months then it's worth it for them. Flash in the pan and totally nickable idea, meanwhile, it is a much kinder alternative to some things you can feel yourself buying (or getting the vet to do) due to desperation. Cheaper than replacing the door that's been scratched to bits too I supppose!

I do still give my little ones food treats and, now that they've stopped begging at the table, they get a reward of the healthy left overs like rice, veg and meat once a day. It's amazing what a raw piece of carrot can do too!

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by DogGoneGood

Looks to work about the same as a prong collar... which, through the company I get them from, is about $10.00. Also their 'freedom training line" looks exactly like the rope you can buy at a hardware store for dirt cheep... you can buy clips at hardware stores for dirt cheep as well

wvasko, your story about your friend training by "demonstraiting to other dogs" made me laugh so hard. Thanks for the giggle

DogGoneGood
Actually, he was way ahead of his time. No aversive/negative training done to the kenneled watching dogs at all, also no positive work done to the dogs. Hey wait a minute!!!!!!!! There was nothing done to the dogs. Holy Cow!!!!!!!! If he posted on this forum, There would be no argument from the negative trainers or the positive trainers Hmmmmmmmm! Of course he would tell the owners that this program should work with dogs of average intelligence, so he did have an out. I don't think the below average intelligence owners thought it was funny.

[Loops]

So who wants me to send them the DVD when I've finished with it then? (maybe in a few weeks from now) You will laugh your socks off. Will post anywhere in the world but I must say it has helped enormously in our household.

[wvasko]

Loops

Don's goal is to get you to be fully “off leash capable” within 4 weeks.

Let's just think about it, I can work the dog 1 day and say I expect the dog to be fully off leash capable in 2 days Of course it may take me 6 months to accomplish the feat. When somebody says the word fully he's not talking about heeling your dog from the kitchen to the front room. I'm going to assume it means walking through a dog park off leash to be fully capable. Just a thought.

[Loops]

He mean's off the leash in the park, the shops, the butchers with sausages in their faces. I can actually envisage it with my dogs right this week, then they're only little things and quite dumb and surprised right now. Long term.....probrably not going to happen, but I will repost and report if my tiny dogs run off to chase the ducks once more or not.

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by Loops

He mean's off the leash in the park, the shops, the butchers with sausages in their faces. I can actually envisage it with my dogs right this week, then they're only little things and quite dumb and surprised right now. Long term.....probrably not going to happen, but I will repost and report if my tiny dogs run off to chase the ducks once more or not.

Well all kidding aside it sounds like you got a head on your shoulders and taking everything with a grain of salt. I wish you lot's of luck with your little rapscallions.

[DogGoneGood]

I honestly can't see ANY dog being "FULLY" trained off leash in 4 weeks... If you work really hard every single day then there will be HUGE improvement in 4 weeks, but I can't see, with ANY method, a dog being 'FULLY' trained in that amount of time...

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Jerk and puke methods, no matter what kind of 'tool' you're using or how "gentle" you claim them to be, are still jerk and puke methods. Furthermore, anyone who doesn't acknowledge food as a beneficial reinforcer, and would go out of their way to claim they are detrimental, does not understand the basic principles of learning theory. For that, this dude would never see a dollar of mine.

I've used choke and prong collars for years and not once did I "jerk" it, and not once did they "puke"... so I must say your name for these collars is rather false, but that's all I'll say on the subject