[CalamityJane]

Hi all,

We are going to Puppy class at the nearest Petsmart, which is about an hour away. The obedience club for our area would be about another half hour further. Is there a big difference in the quality of training we can get through Petsmart and the club?

Also, does anyone know if the Petsmart training will count if we want to pursue agility later on? Or even participate in obedience trials? We would do this through the mixed breed venues.

Just wondering; our first class last week was helpful, and we liked the trainer. I just don't know if, in the world of "doggie sports" if this training fulfills any special requirements.

Thanks.

[TooneyDogs]

Did you hear about the guy and his dog that won the National Agility Contest awhile back? He never had took any formal training...he set-up equipment inside his house...that was his training area.
The biggest difference between an Obedience club and Petsmart is the different levels of training. Clubs offer advanced training for Obedience competition (Novice, Open and Utility) and some also have Agility, Flyball, Freestyle and Conformation training. Both offer puppy classes and basic good manners classes.

[doggymommy]

I worked for a year as a trainer at our local Petsmart, the training is ridiculous. The trainers make a commission off you and are not paid hourly or salary, so the training is basic, that way you have to keep signing up for more and more classes, just to get your dog to sit, walk on leash, lay down...basics which would be covered in a regular 6-8 week class done by a dog training professional. BTW the trainers only get 10% of what you pay so about 20 dollars for an 8 week class with your dog. Not much money for the trainer.

I quit because I found their training methods to be so ridiculous (an example: using a gentle leader on a 6 month old Rottie pulling on the leash) and designed to make the owner have to keep signing up for more and more classes. They are very expensive as well. Also think about it, how can anyone set up a decent size ring inside a busy pet store. The ring we had could maybe hold 4 small dogs!

I would find a local dog trainer and check out some other classes for yourself. I charge 200.00 dollars for 8 weeks and I limit my class to 15 dogs. In the summer we train in a huge auditorium, in the winter we train on 2 acres on an outside field. I have 2 other trainers that work with me, so it comes out to 5 dogs per trainer. That is lots of individual attention to your dog. Each dog is assessed and then it is determined what kind of training technique will be used for that particular dog. A good trainer has lots of tricks up his/her sleeve and should be knowledgeable about many different training methods, what may work for one dog, may not work for another, so the trainer has to be flexible.

PetSmart is not flexible. The same training technique is used on every dog regardless of size, temperament or issue.

Take your time and go visit some other training classes(without your dog) see whose methods you like. Then take your dog and ask a lot of questions, if you like what you hear and you see, great. If not go somewhere else.

The post above mine is a great post. If you already know the basics, train yourself in the backyard and if you want to do agility down the road, turn your yard into an obstacle course, it is easy to do.

[SMoore]

I think it's different from store to store. There is one store here thatt has a great trainer, she's an older lady, lots of dog training experience is retired and just wanted a fun job to do in her spare time.

Then there are people who really don't know anything about animal behavior, they just figure if your dog is pulling throw on a halti or gentle leader and its fixed.

I also think it's unfair to start dog training in a busy environment. I start in the home away from any distraction and then slowly build distraction as my dog learns what I want from her.

[Annamarie]

we took the petsmart training classes to socialize our poorly socialized pup on the urging of their trainer, only to find out when we got to the first class that they didn't allow dogs to interact or play off leash. so right there, for us, it was a waste of money. but we still went just to get my dog out in public places.

most of the training is basic treat lure stuff and common sense that any dog owner could master by reading a book. it's like basic training for dummies. they teach you how to get your dog to sit and lay down and come when called with a treat, that's about it.

when we went, the first 20 minutes of each class was spent pushing petsmart products. any time I feel like someone is trying to sell my something I know that I'm probably being scammed.

personally, I would go with obedience training. but make sure you go watch a class first. the only person who teaches obedience training around here teaches the "haul your dog around by a choke chain and yank it's neck off" method.

[Equestiana]

I dont have any personal experience with petsmart trainers but i've heard ALOT of negative things so chose a different trainer.

My first set of obedience classes Ziggy learned to sit, down, heel, finish and was starting her heel off leash. The set of classes was 6 weeks long.

I've also been training ziggy in agility. If your interested in doing agility then make sure you have a solid sit, down and good focus. It'll make the WORLD of difference!

[Dogstar]

It all depends. (I'm going to use the Dallas area as an example, because I know the big-box trainres and the club trainers).

Petsmart has a standard box-set training curriculum and philosophy all their trainers are required to follow. It does NOT include the correct use (or any use!) of any type of aversive other than a spray bottle to stop bad behaviors or a gentle leader to control a pulling dog. HOWEVER- some of their older trainers who have been with the store longer (here in Dallas, Jan Webster & Brenda Keller, specifically) are more knowlegable folks who came to Petsmart already having worked as trainers and having good general knowlege about dogs. Others are very young, usually hired directly out of high school or pulled off the register, and may or not actually have ANY dog training experience. (They prefer that you not, which wasn't always the case, so you will only use their method.) Their setups also are VERY tough for dogs to learn in- all training buildings are going to be highly distracting with the other dogs in them, but at Pmart, you then go out into the aisles- aisles with FOOD and TREATS and PEOPLE (who will ooh and aww and want to pet your dog if he/she is cute)- to practice behaviors for the very first time. That si NOT setting a dog up to succeed. Just the presence of other dogs and a novel environment is PLENTY of challange!

Local clubs can vary a lot in quality. Here in Dallas, we've got two really excellent (competition) clubs and one group that is CALLED a club (it's not a competition club and the membership structure is different). The two competition clubs have incredibly knowledgable staff and use VERY up-to-date training methods- clicker & lure-reward (one is all clicker, one uses lure-reward in the lowest level of classes because they found a lot of total beginners didn't have the dexterity to manage a pulling dog, a clicker, and treats- they introduce it towards the end of the class.) The other club has very experienced staff but uses old school (Koehler) training methods that I really don't like for my dogs and wish they did not apply to every dog, because they DON'T work for all dogs. At the same time, they *do* apply them fairly correctly (three of their instructors are better than the fourth) and they have other things going for them (a central location, VERY cheap class for adopted dogs ($35), and they ALWAYS have space in their classes, since their classes are large.

I don't think that letting dogs play during class is a necessity. (I don't allow it in my classes for liability reasons, to be honest- but people are welcome to come early, hang out, and play in my training area with their dogs once they can demonstrate a call-off and leave it out of play. We *do* socialize dogs but only in controlled exercises.)

For agiility (or rally obedience, or obedience), what training courses you've taken don't matter, although most instructors want you to have either completed their pre-agility beginner course or demonstrate good obedience skills on your dog. IMO, Petsmart classes may give you that control- but probably not. There are very, very few Petsmart trainers who compete in any dog sports (frankly, because very few of them are up to that level of training), and you'd be better served to start with an instructor from the beginning who can help you on the way to your goals- not one whose only goal is to get you to sign up for all their classes. Petsmart teaches pet obedience. Dog clubs teach you to train your dogs, with whatever goal you like in mind.

[Annamarie]

I agree that letting dogs play isn't always required, but that was the SOLE REASON we were convinced to enroll our dogs in classes. We needed him to socialize with other dogs and were assured by the petsmart trainer that their classes were great for socialization. There was NO socialization though, so we felt ripped off.

[Pai]

The rings at the Petsmart near us are ridiculously small... not sure what you can even do when you're crammed in there like that.

I've gone to the same trainer for all my dogs -- she has private lessions and group lessons, does Agility training as well as Obedience... and it's always been a great experience. She trains the owners as much as the dogs, and isn't trying to sell products or anything like the pet shops probably do. It's $150 for 7 weeks, and I always feel I've gotten my money's worth.

Finding a good independent trainer is a much better idea, imo.

[blackrose]

I took both Sadie and Chloe to the Petsmart training course. I personally know how to train a dog, I just wanted them to have a structured socailization.
I didn't learn anything at all when I took Sadie, but it was WONDERFUL getting Sadie to work around distractions. She was a little puppy and she was doing down/stays in the middle of the store and sit/stays with a tennis ball bouncing by her head. 'Course, both of those had been worked on at home before training class, so it wasn't like she was learning them there.

Same with Chloe. I had a different trainer with her who seemed to know a bit more about what she was doing (and didn't push the Petsmart ciriculim on us, which I do believe caused her to get fired later). Again, it helped Chloe learn to listen even when distractions were going on, but I think Chloe and I both could have excelled had we been with a more experienced trainer, as I knew just about as much as the Petsmart trainer did.

In fact, I, at seventeen years of age, could be a Petsmart trainer. You just go to Indianapolis for two weeks for a siminar, and wha-lah, you are a Petsmart trainer. But personally, I don't know if I could stand teaching the Petsmart ciricumlum and not using what would be best for individuals.

I didn't have any problem with ring size, as they made ours large enough to fit eight large dogs comfortably.

Overall, though, it depends on the trainer. I'm sure you could find a crappy kennel club trainer as well as a crappy Petsmart trainer. However, I don't think I'd use Petsmart for anything more than puppy kindergarten class if you don't have a superb trainer.

[Criosphynx]

Originally Posted by doggymommy

I worked for a year as a trainer at our local Petsmart, the training is ridiculous. The trainers make a commission off you and are not paid hourly or salary, so the training is basic, that way you have to keep signing up for more and more classes, just to get your dog to sit, walk on leash, lay down...basics which would be covered in a regular 6-8 week class done by a dog training professional. BTW the trainers only get 10% of what you pay so about 20 dollars for an 8 week class with your dog. Not much money for the trainer.

I quit because I found their training methods to be so ridiculous (an example: using a gentle leader on a 6 month old Rottie pulling on the leash) and designed to make the owner have to keep signing up for more and more classes. They are very expensive as well. Also think about it, how can anyone set up a decent size ring inside a busy pet store. The ring we had could maybe hold 4 small dogs!

I would find a local dog trainer and check out some other classes for yourself. I charge 200.00 dollars for 8 weeks and I limit my class to 15 dogs. In the summer we train in a huge auditorium, in the winter we train on 2 acres on an outside field. I have 2 other trainers that work with me, so it comes out to 5 dogs per trainer. That is lots of individual attention to your dog. Each dog is assessed and then it is determined what kind of training technique will be used for that particular dog. A good trainer has lots of tricks up his/her sleeve and should be knowledgeable about many different training methods, what may work for one dog, may not work for another, so the trainer has to be flexible.

PetSmart is not flexible. The same training technique is used on every dog regardless of size, temperament or issue.

Take your time and go visit some other training classes(without your dog) see whose methods you like. Then take your dog and ask a lot of questions, if you like what you hear and you see, great. If not go somewhere else.

The post above mine is a great post. If you already know the basics, train yourself in the backyard and if you want to do agility down the road, turn your yard into an obstacle course, it is easy to do.

true true and more true. I worked for that horrid company for just under four years. Every employee in the store is severly pressured to sell classes. We were told to aproach everyone with a dog and suggest it for the most minor things. Or everyone that even MENTIONED owning a dog, you were supposed to suggest training classes. Most of the trainers are really just promoted cashiers, or bored managers looking for a change of pace.




You can learn just as much by reading a training book. Or just go one night and watch a class session. Its very very basic stuff. I personally think its a waste of $$$$$

[CalamityJane]

Thanks everybody, for the replies. I appreciate all the info from all your perspectives. I have been doing some exploring of our options, and I think that after this class is over we will go somewhere else. Like I said, there is the Obedience Club, and there are several people who have training schools and classes.

One in particular interests me, and I am going to look into it further.

Thanks again.