[SpudFan]

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[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by SpudFan

So far we have been using the collar as a high-tech clicker. She does something right and the positive tone gets pressed and for her reward she gets her tennis ball thrown. Using this strategy she is now doing a perfect sit on demand. This is opposite to the approach that is recommended in the manual for teaching the dog to sit. The method that is recommended in the manual is to continually press the negative alert button whilst giving the dog the command to sit. As soon as the dog obeys you then stop the negative tone and press the positive tone for 2 seconds.

My question is what method are you using with your e-collar?

This question doesn't just apply to e-collars so let me try to answer it in a general sense.

You're using the positive tone as a secondary reinforcer. Marking the beginning of the event you're asking for. Once the dog has learned the behavior and you've generalized the behavior in different environments, you'll phase the secondary reinforcer out. Or perhaps use a common, general secondary reinforcer like "good boy" before throwing the ball. So the secondary reinforcer, really is used inly in the process of how new behaviors are learned.

Now that your dog has learned the behavior and is reliable with it, you have a choice of consequences should your dog fail to respond to a cue. Your guide is suggesting you use negative reinforcement. Assuming the negative tone is an aversive to the dog, you reinforce sit by ceasing the tone upon sit. The dog learns that sitting makes the aversive tone go away. I would use this to proof behaviors the dog already knows.

However, your manual should have directions on how to classically condition the negative tone before doing this.

[Annamarie]

mine only has the negative tone and tone with correction so I can't say anything about the positive tone only...

when I put it on him the first time I only used the tone to see how he'd react to it. he cocked his head to the side and looked at me like "huh?" but continued barking at the doorbell a few seconds later. i let him get used to the feel of the collar and then took it off.

the second time I had it on him we were in the car and he was barking and shrieking. I said "no" and hit the tone only and it didn't break his behavior at all. I said "no!" and hit the tone with correction and he yelped and hid on the floor and stopped barking immediately. he then jumped up in my lap and sat there with his eyes half closed, relaxed. which is a FAR change from the mess he usually is when the car is stopped (usually he panics and whines).

the third time I had it on him we had people coming over. he went on a barking fit and ran out the door as soon as it was opened so I said "no!" and pressed the correction with tone. he ran back inside and hid under the bench looking at our guests but not barking.

every time we've had it on him so far since, we've been able to use the tone only. usually we don't even have to use that, just having the collar on makes him behave. if he has it on and someone knocks at the door, he might let out a few muffled woofs but nothing like the hyperventilating panic barking he was doing before. when people are over he calms down a lot faster and will lick their hands or allow them to pet him within a few minutes. The thing with him is that we've removed that adrenaline "high" he was getting from his behavior when people came over before so his mind is learning a LOT faster that there's nothing to be afraid of when we have guests.

i've also found he's a lot more responsive without the collar all of a sudden. he was barking at the neighbors the other day and I said "NO!" and he whipped his head around and looked straight at me, I was shocked (no pun intended). lol...

so that's the method we're working on so far... he clearly understands what the negative tone means so I'm hoping we'll be able to phase out the collar within a few weeks because he's starting to associate what "NO!" means as well.

I would have loved to do clicker training with him to reinforce POSITIVE behaviors as well, but he was scared of the clicker when we tried it. Maybe there is some other noise or device I can use.

I wish there was a way to make the same noise the collar does without having the collar on him later on. With the negative and positive tone it would be like having a remote control dog

[zimandtakandgrrandmimi]

Originally Posted by Annamarie

mine only has the negative tone and tone with correction so I can't say anything about the positive tone only...

when I put it on him the first time I only used the tone to see how he'd react to it. he cocked his head to the side and looked at me like "huh?" but continued barking at the doorbell a few seconds later. i let him get used to the feel of the collar and then took it off.

the second time I had it on him we were in the car and he was barking and shrieking. I said "no" and hit the tone only and it didn't break his behavior at all. I said "no!" and hit the tone with correction and he yelped and hid on the floor and stopped barking immediately. he then jumped up in my lap and sat there with his eyes half closed, relaxed. which is a FAR change from the mess he usually is when the car is stopped (usually he panics and whines).

the third time I had it on him we had people coming over. he went on a barking fit and ran out the door as soon as it was opened so I said "no!" and pressed the correction with tone. he ran back inside and hid under the bench looking at our guests but not barking.

every time we've had it on him so far since, we've been able to use the tone only. usually we don't even have to use that, just having the collar on makes him behave. if he has it on and someone knocks at the door, he might let out a few muffled woofs but nothing like the hyperventilating panic barking he was doing before. when people are over he calms down a lot faster and will lick their hands or allow them to pet him within a few minutes. The thing with him is that we've removed that adrenaline "high" he was getting from his behavior when people came over before so his mind is learning a LOT faster that there's nothing to be afraid of when we have guests.

i've also found he's a lot more responsive without the collar all of a sudden. he was barking at the neighbors the other day and I said "NO!" and he whipped his head around and looked straight at me, I was shocked (no pun intended). lol...

so that's the method we're working on so far... he clearly understands what the negative tone means so I'm hoping we'll be able to phase out the collar within a few weeks because he's starting to associate what "NO!" means as well.

I would have loved to do clicker training with him to reinforce POSITIVE behaviors as well, but he was scared of the clicker when we tried it. Maybe there is some other noise or device I can use.

I wish there was a way to make the same noise the collar does without having the collar on him later on. With the negative and positive tone it would be like having a remote control dog

clicker training doesn't require a clicker. just a noise or marker of whatever the dog responds to best. I snap my fingers and it works just like the clicker.

[wyx]

Originally Posted by SpudFan

Here is the unit that I am using. It is the PetSafe 400 yard remote trainer. To give you an idea of the size of the unit the remote is sitting on my iPhone.
....
My question is what method are you using with your e-collar?

It looks like we have the same unit, though mine is branded Sportdog not Petsafe. I'm using it for negative reinforcement and attention. I went to a Sit Means Sit demo this weekend and since I had the only dog there for the demo, I got to talk at length with the instructor. It turns out my collar is also the one used and sold by Sit Means Sit (but also re-branded).

I had been using it on Mode 1, factory default. Tone on the side button, continuous and tap on the face buttons. The instructor reset mine to mode 6. This gives tap on the side, high and low continuous on the face buttons. This gives me all the options I need on one level for most situations, and is better than mode 1 for me because I don't use the tone anyway. I'd rather any positive reinforcement come directly from me, my voice or touch, because it helps with keeping the dog's attention.