Phoebias.....

Lonewolfblue · 05-24-2008, 09:53 AM

I was just wondering what the best techniques are for working with phoebias as well as confidence building. Here are Nell's phoebias that we need to conquer.....

1. Sliding doors, such as the ones at petco. I finally got her past the doors with a little effort, and then goes to #2.

2. Slippery floors. She was slipping and sliding a little bit, and seemed afraid, but after a few minutes, she was walking normally, but really didn't like being on that floor. She also met a couple dogs in there, and did very well with them, sniffed and had no issues and wanted to interact. She's great with other dogs.

3. Stairs. I took her in to work to meet some of my co-workers, and she crawled up the stairs, and after we were done, she did not want to even go near the stairs. A co-worker said I should just place her in the middle of the stairway and force her to come down, but to me, that's really cruel. Is it cruel, or is there a much better way to conquer this phoebia?

4. Master Bathroom. I would like to be able to have her go in so I can give her baths whenever needed, as my yard is crushed rock and gravel, and whenever she gets wet, she rolls in the gravel and dirt and gets all messy. But her fear again is the floor. It's the same floor as the dining room, which she has no problems with, just a much lighter color, off-white rather than dark green. She won't go past where the carpet from the Master Bedroom ends.

Now, since I haven't gotten her into the bath tub, I don't know if that would be an issue yet. But being slippery, it might be. But any tips and ideas would be appreciated, hope I gave enough info above. And if you need any more info, just ask, and I can give more details.

pamperedpups · 05-24-2008, 05:34 PM

If she were my dog I would get her charged with a clicker and work on her in small bits, making very gradual, very positive associations with the things she's afraid of through her favorite treats and toys. Flooding her by putting her in the middle of the stairs or by just tugging her around on the other surfaces could definitely backfire. You could just take her to places without the expectation of going through the sliding doors, or up or down the stairs and at home you can work on the bathroom floor and baths without the expectation of having to be in the bathroom taking a bath. Break the behaviors that you want down into small bits and your dog will let you know how fast to procede by her successes, as well as when to slow down or back up your training.

TooneyDogs · 05-24-2008, 11:22 PM

I've always taken a low tech, low key approach to the slippery floors, the different floor textures and the stairs. I just toss treats across the floor or down the stairs and then walk away. I check in every few minutes to see where they are....half way down the stairs? standing in the middle of that slippery floor? If they went for the bait, I praise profusely but, I don't touch or pet as they might still be a little apprehensive about where they are.

PeppersPop · 05-24-2008, 11:23 PM

A phobia is an irrational fear.

The two main techniques for dealing with phobias are desensitization and flooding.

Desensitization means that you gradually expose a person/pet to the object/situation they fear while teaching it to associate the feared thing as something pleasant (or at least non-scary). With sliding doors, you would do this by figuring out how close you can get the dog to the doors without getting upset... say 10 feet. Starting at 10 feet away from the door, have her follow commands, give her treats, play with a bone/toy, staying at 10 feet until she was no longer upset by the door. Then you move up to 9 feet, give her commands/treats/play until she is no longer upset, then move up to 8 feet.... you do that until you are up to the door, and then have her stand in front of the door while it open/closes, and eventually walk her through.

Flooding is when you expose the person/pet to the thing/situation they fear all at once, until they are no longer fearful of it. Putting your dog in the middle of the stairs is an example of this... you are forcing her to deal with her fear and hopefully once she has gone up or down to get to you, she will realize that stairs aren't really scary.

I prefer the first, but sometimes, you just don't have the time. The problem with flooding is that if it fails... say your dog got tangled in the leash and tumbled down the stairs...you've got a much bigger problem.

I don't know how big Nell is and how big your bathtub is, but my partner and I always give Pepper a bath together... with me in the bathtub and her on the outside. You might want to get some kind of bath mat, that way Nell's feet won't slide around.

Pepper wasn't thrilled with the bathtub in the beginning. He now goes into the bathroom and when he thinks I'm not looking, he hops into the tub and sniffs around, then comes hops back out and pretends to be all sweet and innocent. Haha.

It sounds like you're doing pretty well with Nell.

Best wishes,
Sid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

I was just wondering what the best techniques are for working with phoebias as well as confidence building. Here are Nell's phoebias that we need to conquer.....

1. Sliding doors, such as the ones at petco. I finally got her past the doors with a little effort, and then goes to #2.

2. Slippery floors. She was slipping and sliding a little bit, and seemed afraid, but after a few minutes, she was walking normally, but really didn't like being on that floor. She also met a couple dogs in there, and did very well with them, sniffed and had no issues and wanted to interact. She's great with other dogs.

3. Stairs. I took her in to work to meet some of my co-workers, and she crawled up the stairs, and after we were done, she did not want to even go near the stairs. A co-worker said I should just place her in the middle of the stairway and force her to come down, but to me, that's really cruel. Is it cruel, or is there a much better way to conquer this phoebia?

4. Master Bathroom. I would like to be able to have her go in so I can give her baths whenever needed, as my yard is crushed rock and gravel, and whenever she gets wet, she rolls in the gravel and dirt and gets all messy. But her fear again is the floor. It's the same floor as the dining room, which she has no problems with, just a much lighter color, off-white rather than dark green. She won't go past where the carpet from the Master Bedroom ends.

Now, since I haven't gotten her into the bath tub, I don't know if that would be an issue yet. But being slippery, it might be. But any tips and ideas would be appreciated, hope I gave enough info above. And if you need any more info, just ask, and I can give more details.

Lonewolfblue · 05-24-2008, 11:38 PM

I was looking more towards the desensitization myself, but now that I've injurred myself at work, will put it off for a week or so, at least til I've seen the chiropracter a couple times and hopefully won't be in as much pain. I've also not been able to do much obedience work as well, as it's really hard for me to bend over or stoop down to show her how to Down. She does Sit pretty well, but not all the time. She's getting better, and I can do that without bending over. Thanks for all the input so far.

Crazie.Eddie · 05-25-2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

3. Stairs. I took her in to work to meet some of my co-workers, and she crawled up the stairs, and after we were done, she did not want to even go near the stairs. A co-worker said I should just place her in the middle of the stairway and force her to come down, but to me, that's really cruel. Is it cruel, or is there a much better way to conquer this phoebia?

My 2nd Eskie was afraid of stairs. She could go up, but not down. She would yelp and howl when she was at the top of stairs and she would see me go down. I tried to call her to go down, but she wouldn't. Eventually, I thought of placing her in the middle, as I went down and I called her. She was yelping at first, but eventually was able to step down. Since then, she's able to run up/down the stairs without any problems.

PeppersPop · 05-25-2008, 06:29 PM

Get yourself a stool.

No more back strain and you are more on the dogs level... easier to get/maintain attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

I was looking more towards the desensitization myself, but now that I've injurred myself at work, will put it off for a week or so, at least til I've seen the chiropracter a couple times and hopefully won't be in as much pain. I've also not been able to do much obedience work as well, as it's really hard for me to bend over or stoop down to show her how to Down. She does Sit pretty well, but not all the time. She's getting better, and I can do that without bending over. Thanks for all the input so far.

Lonewolfblue · 05-25-2008, 06:45 PM

I think a stool would be quite painful, lol. With a hip injury and the last vertibrae above the tailbone being compressed, cutting off the nerves, it's hard to sit on any chair. Hopefully after my next chiropracter visit, I'll be able to sit with not so much pain. Also, due to the nerves being pinched, when I bend my legs to lower myself, I have no strength in my right leg to stand back up, as well as not having any reflex in my right leg. This is my second injury like this (had a hip injury back in 2004, threw it out of place), last time I was back to full strength in about 2 months.

Lonewolfblue · 05-28-2008, 09:15 PM

Well, looks like I might have recruited the help of Betty to help with the Master Bathroom. Whenever I go in to use the bathroom, I just sit there, and Nell stands at the door. I used to try and call Nell in, but she would go off into the other room. Lately I've been ignoring her, and letting Betty work on her. She now takes 3 steps in with her front feet. And Betty tries to show her it's ok. She's having more success than I was, lol.

Lonewolfblue · 05-29-2008, 08:37 AM

Well, this morning she actually got all 4 feet on the floor before backing back out. She's getting closer and closer...

Lonewolfblue · 05-31-2008, 09:49 PM

Well, she's slowly getting better. She now comes in far enough to where all 4 feet are in the bathroom, but then backs back out. Letting Betty work on her more. It's interesting watching them interact.

sillylilykitty · 05-31-2008, 10:04 PM

Thats cool, glad to hear she is getting over that fear, good thing Betty is helping you

Lonewolfblue · 06-11-2008, 10:20 PM

Well, here's another update.......

As for the bathroom floor, she will come in far enough with her front feet, but will not bring her back feet in yet. This one is going to take some time, as I really want to make it a positive experience for her. I did pull her in once, and she pee'd all over. So then I just picked her up and placed her in the tub so I could wash her. She seemed a little scared, but not bad. Then when I started pouring the warm water from the faucet on her, she started to calm down a little, and seemed to start liking it. She even licked me a few times on the face, and tried shaking dry a couple times. Once I got her wet, I then shampoo'd her, and rinsed her off. Once we were done, I placed a towel on the floor and picked her up and placed her on the towel. She started looking around like, it's white floor all around me, lol. At that point I started rubbing her dry and she loved it. She even layed on the towel to rub her belly dry. It was great. Then I took the towel when we were done and placed it between the towel she was on and the door, and she walked out of the bathroom with no issues, and shook herself dry again. So it was a little scary at first, but then turned out not so scary.

As for the stairs, this is going to be a real task. She will not go near the stairs at work at all. It's probably going to be the toughest of all the tasks.

As for the sliding doors and slippery floor at Petco, she amazed me today. Today was her 3rd time going there, and had gone to Lowe's once. When we were there today, the sliding door startled her just a little, then she walked right through with me with no issues. And onto the slippery floors. She did squat a little at first on the floor and then got right back up and continued walking with me. We walked around the store a bit, then went and got more of my training treats I wanted, as well a 2 more bones for them. So today was a very good day at Petco. I would say maybe one or two more times and she'll probably be close to no more issues there.

Finally, any new ideas on the stairs? It doesn't matter how good the treat is. This one is her greatest fear. If the stairs are higher than her line of sight, then she wants to run the opposite direction.

trumpetjock · 06-11-2008, 10:29 PM

Rocky had the same fear about the slippery floors. The way I handled it is that he only gets his meals in the kitchen - the only room in the house with those floors. So, he has to come in to eat. If he's too afraid, he goes hungry. It took like 2 days for him to come out of his shell. He runs willy-nilly through there now. The one thing about this method is that Rocky is STUPIDLY food motivated. He'll do anything I ask him to just to lick my fingers, even after he's just ate 3/4 a pound of raw chicken.

Oh, and Rocky was originally afraid of stairs too, but I did the standard desensitization with him with a bit of a twist. I took super stinky hot chunks and placed one on the bottom stair. The next stair up I put two. The next three. The next four, and so on and so forth until there was a huge pile waiting at the top of this short little flight from the lower to the main level. I did this every night before dinner (when he was super hungry) like 3 days in a row and he was never afraid again (even if he does like to go up stairs a bit too fast now)

TooneyDogs · 06-11-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

Finally, any new ideas on the stairs? It doesn't matter how good the treat is. This one is her greatest fear. If the stairs are higher than her line of sight, then she wants to run the opposite direction.

Same approach...one step at a time. Bait the floor in front of the stairs and put a treat on every step. Let her make the association that stairs are good (there's food there). Just like the bathroom (a foot at a time), she may only take the treats off the 1st one or two steps...that's OK....that's progress.
Keep rebaiting. If she's consistently taking the treats from the bottom steps but, leaving the higher ones, start removing the treats from the lower steps... basically encouraging her to go up a little further to get a treat.

Lonewolfblue · 06-11-2008, 10:51 PM

Only one problem, the first time we went to my work, she went up to the stairs on her belly, and then I had to carry her down. Well, now I can't even get her within 15 feet of the stairs, she knows exactly where they are and she shuts down. She won't even go up. She just lays flat, and will not get up except to go the other direction.

Lonewolfblue · 08-12-2008, 11:03 PM

New update.....

1. Sliding glass doors - We have more than conquered this phoebia. She now loves going to Petco, she actually drags me through the doors because she knows I'm going to be buying her something, lol. She drags me straight to the treats, lol.

2. Slippery floors - She's completely conquered the floors at Petco. They don't give her any more problems. #1 says it all....

3. Stairs - This one has been the absolute toughest one, so I stopped working on it for a while. I thought since I've been making more progress at Petco, I've just been working on the doors and floors, as well as the master bathroom in #4. Once we've accomplished these, will move back to the stairs, as that's all we have left.

4. Master Bathroom - This one has been another tough one, and for a while, have not gotten her to come into the bathroom. When playing ball, she would go as far as front feet going in and her rear feet maybe by 2 steps, and if she couldn't reach the ball, would back straight out of the bathroom. Then the other day, I had assisted her into the bathroom. I played some short ball games with her, and she was doing fine. This time her tail was not between her legs, was actually wagging. After playing ball, I then had her walk with me in a happy voice, and she did. Then I said lets go the other way, and she followed me back. Betty was also playing this with us, and was really helping Nell. Betty knew what I wanted, and assisted tremendously. Then after the walking back and forth a couple times, I had Betty go to the bed, and I asked Nell to follow, and she did. Then I tried getting her back in, and she didn't, lol.

Now this morning I did the same, assisted her in, and we played a bit. Then walked back and forth. Then I let her follow Betty out of the bathroom, and when Betty came back in, so did Nell. We walked around more, then she followed Betty out of the bathroom and back in again. Then I went to work. When I got home, I wanted to see what she would do. So I walked into the bathroom and she came in with me and Betty, didn't even stop at the door. So I think we have got this one conquered. A little more playing ball and happy walks, we will have it completely licked.

Hillary · 08-13-2008, 05:59 AM

My cocker spaniel have an irrational fear of any noise at night.

She can tolerate all sorts of noise in the daytime, but if I so much as tiptoe to the bathroom at night, she'll get hysterical.

She'll squeal and bark and hide under the bed.

Very cute, except it's happened way too many times.

Too bad I love her or I would have drowned her in the fish pond.