[puppymom]

We have adopted two papi-poo puppies. Yes, we are aware of the problems of adopting two pups and we are coping well. The pups have bonded to us as well as to each other. They get lots and lots of individual time and they don't sleep together.

The problem we are having is one pup has started sleeping through the night and the other one is needing to go out sometimes three or four times during the night. We usually try to keep them awake until 10pm and we get up at 6am every morning. We just aren't getting much sleep in between which makes for very long days when we are exhausted to start the day. We have the pups in seperate crates in the kitchen, across the room from each other. They sleep wonderfully during the day, it's just at night that is the issue. We have left a night light on in the kitchen for them but it seems the one little guy just doesn't want to sleep at night. Any suggestions???? They will be 9 weeks old tomorrow (Tuesday). Housetraining for both is going quite well and they will potty on command when we take them outside. They have also started asking to go out by standing at the door and looking at us.

Any help would be appreciated.........we are exhausted!!!!!!!


Puppymom

[LoveLilly]

well, in my opinion 9 weeks old is too young for a small dog to hold it through the night. I have a papillon and she started holding it through the night on her own at about 12-16 weeks. Until then we house trained like normal but she had a potty pad in her crate at night which she stopped using on her own. Try taking the water away 2-3 hours before bed. we take it away at 8pm and go to bed at 10pm. It helps definitely. If they get thirsty give them an ice cube.

[puppymom]

Thank you for your response. We do lift the water dish at approx. 8pm and then they have time to potty once more at 10pm before bed. Our one pup is holding it through the night but the other little guys is waking and therefore she thinks she needs to go out too, just because he is. We can't put a potty pad in the crates as the crates are not big enough for that. I guess our only other option is to deal with what's going on and hope for some sleep in the new year. It is becoming increasingly harder to function during the day on only 3 or 4 hours of true sleep.

[sawbill]

12 to 16 weeks? Heck, I'm retired and still have to get up some nights.

[puppymom]

Sawbill,

Hey, maybe you could come let them out while you're up!!! ha ha ha......just kidding!!!!!!!

[sawbill]

Hey, I don't mind but being in Northern Ontario I'd probably have to leave about mid-November to get there for their first walk.

[puppymom]

That's probably true. We are in Alberta so it would be a long commute!!!!

[Dulce]

You can't expect a puppy to hold it's urine that long. It'snot right.

That's part of what comes with owning a puppy, let alone 2.

Expect to take them out several times uring the night.

[mistyinca]

We have our yorkie in a crate, with the door open, in an x-pen. We have papers at one end During the night, she gets up and pees on the papers on her own. She never makes a peep at night now. She only cried the first three nights, and it has been peaceful this way ever since. You might want to give it a try. Maybe I'll post a picture of the set up.

Good luck

[puppymom]

First and foremost, we don't expect our pups to go all night without a pee break. But we would expect them to be able to go for at least a couple hours or more at a time. They don't seem to have a problem holding it for 2 to 3 hours or more during the day.

Would leaving the crate door open and providing puppy pads not hamper the housetraining efforts that we have succeeded in to date????

[vega1star]

This is something I'm afraid of as well. Would not letting them pee on a potty pad affect the rapidity of training?
We are having the same problem, but our puppy is not crying, just oging and then returning to sleep. I'm thinking of setting an alarm clock this evening and letting him out. See how that goes. I like the idea of the potty pad, but just not sure.

What are the arguments for and against?
Thanks!

[mistyinca]

Originally Posted by puppymom

Would leaving the crate door open and providing puppy pads not hamper the housetraining efforts that we have succeeded in to date????

I asked this exact question at the dog talk podcast I particpated in. The consensus in the group was that it is actually good. She still goes outside on the grass with no problem (potty training is going extremely well here), but also, she has no problem with the pad. She only uses the pad at night or if we're gone for several hours during the day. I'm finding that the existing set up is working quite well for us.

What one girl at the roundtable told me is that she finds it beneficial for her dogs to be able to use both pads and outside. She takes her dogs to shows, and sometimes they _have_ to use the pads. But any other time, they use the grass with no problem.

Sometimes, I find that Chloe doesn't even go potty during the night, so one night, I kept the door on her crate closed all night long, but she didn't make it till morning, so we're keeping the door open for now. I will be trying it again after 2 weeks. At some point, when she is old enough, we will be closing the door on her crate, and not using this method. But for now, it sure beats the heck out of getting up in the night.

Here's the set up:

[Dulce]

Originally Posted by puppymom

First and foremost, we don't expect our pups to go all night without a pee break. But we would expect them to be able to go for at least a couple hours or more at a time. They don't seem to have a problem holding it for 2 to 3 hours or more during the day.

Would leaving the crate door open and providing puppy pads not hamper the housetraining efforts that we have succeeded in to date????

You cannot expect your pup to hold it's urine for even a COUPLE OF HOURS. THey need to go out at LEAST every 30minutes to an hour.

That's just something you're going to have to deal with.

The pee pads thing at night, seems to me like a lazy owner thing. And don't take offense to that, it's just my opinion. Leaving pee pads when you aren't HOME is different, but doing it at night, when you are perfectly capable of taking the dog out yourself, is just reinforcing the behavior, and almost back tracks you. The dog will learn it's ok to pee inside when you ARE HOME.
And that's not what you want.

[mistyinca]

Originally Posted by Dulce

The pee pads thing at night, seems to me like a lazy owner thing. And don't take offense to that, it's just my opinion.

I do think it's pretty rude to call it lazy (it may be your opinion, but since I'm the one that said I use this method, it is directed at me and therefore I AM offended), but it is working for us, and things are going very well with potty training here, so who is it hurting?

How I judge that it's going well:
Her time between being taken for pee pee is now 2 hours when awake, longer when she's asleep, such as in our laps.
As soon as I place her on the grass, she pees immediately.
Poop is now every 4-6 hours (sometimes 8).
She occasionally will scratch at the door to let us know she has to go outside; othertimes, she whimpers until I get it that she needs to go out.
She's 13 weeks.

Lazy? Not here. I probably spend more time with my dog in a day than many do in a week.

[puppymom]

I would like to thank mistyinca for her words of encouragement and yes, I am offended also at being called a "lazy" pet owner. I think taking the pups out every 30 minutes during the night is absolutely ridiculous. I spend everyday from 6am to 10pm with our pups and the housetraining is going very well. They ask to go outside and we have not had an accident for a long time now. In fact, the two of them have been asleep this afternoon going on 3 hours at this point in their crates and they haven't so much as even lifted their heads, let alone cried to potty. I find it very offensive to be called lazy and it seems that a lot of people we have spoke to don't seem to see a problem with putting down pee pads at night so everyone can get some sleep. We consider ourselves to be very responsible pet owners and our puppies are our first priority. We have dedicated all of our waking hours to these two pups and things are going very well. We would just like a solution to the night time trips to the backyard. We live in a country that is very cold this time of year and not only are we very sleep deprived but the pups are having a hard time with the harsh temperatures at night which is probably another reason they don't settle when brought back inside. They are cold from being outside in the snow. We are finding more and more everyday that it's time to do what we think works for us and what is right for our pups rather than to try to follow what others think we should do. Once again, letting them out to potty every 30 minutes is absolutely ridiculous. We are supposed to sleep when??????????????????

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by puppymom

We are supposed to sleep when??????????????????

The answer is, you'll sleep when your dog is fully trained. Hopefully your dog is fully trained in a couple of months, but some take longer...and some way way longer. And I do believe every opportunity that you make to take the dog outside, even at night, is one more opportunity to reinforce the behavior we want...going potty outside. And in Dulce's defense, you really do need to expect opinions to be strong for the welfare of your dog. Maybe "lazy" wasn't the best choice of words for our understanding, but when considering the dog's perspective, if my owner didn't help me learn what was wrong or right because they preferred their sleep, I'd say my owner was lazy too. It's really not a point to be offended by, it's a point of perspective and understanding. Don't get me wrong, you have the choice to train your dog any way you like, and you may seek out people who have similar views, but by no means is it ridiculous to take your dog out often during the night to reinforce a certain behavior. So I guess it's really about what you want. Personally, I believe it's important to not confuse your pup. So I do choose to get up often to take the dog out at night as pups. Pee pads are useful to a point, but I find more benefit in having a dog that knows outside is where the business is done. I can tolerate the weather, and as far as I know, every home, office, or building has a door that leads to the outdoors. I'm being silly, but in my mind it's never a good time to eliminate inside. And it can be controlled as I've said, by reinforcing the behavior we want, and by being consistent. You can be consistent reinforcing both indoor and outdoor potty areas, however, for the normal dog owner you should expect reliability to take longer with this method. At least this has been my experience...maybe luck has found you quicker than it did I (and I really am not trying to be rude, luck is an important component of training too), but I'm one of those that prefers reliability to come sooner than later, so I must rely on my experience.

[sawbill]

There's certainly more than one way to skin a cat so if whatever you're doing seems to be working, then you may as well keep at it. With any effort that pup will eventually know whats expected of him and if it takes a puppy pad and a week or so longer, at least you'll be getting your much needed sleep. We've had dogs for decades. Every one has been a major focus of our family. Everyone of them has gotten through the puppy stage, eventually learned that he was expected to whiz outdoors and we did it without all the pyschology that seems to be needed to raise todays dogs.

[Dulce]

Ok, you misunderstood my post.

You keep complaining about sleep. The fact is, you DON'T get that much sleep when you own a puppy. I don't know how amny time I need to say that to you.

It's something you need to be prepared for.

If you choose to use pee pads at night, so be it. If you're offended, that's a bummer.

You have posted on a public forum, and we are only trying to help, and I only have your dogs best interest at heart.

[thomasina]

[quote=Dulce;18612]You cannot expect your pup to hold it's urine for even a COUPLE OF HOURS. THey need to go out at LEAST every 30minutes to an hour.

That's just something you're going to have to deal with.

Honestly speaking - Who in their right mind would take their pup out every 30 minutes during the night? When my dogs were pups ( one still is ) I would let them out about every three hours during the night and I felt drained in the morning. So Dulce, if you took your pup out every 30 minutes, during the night - then hey, more power to you - I guess you're the best dog owner on this site.

[Dulce]

You know, your rudeness is unecessary.

I said every 30 minutes TO AN HOUR. I'm sorry if you misunderstood that.

No one said I was the best dog owner in the world. It was a SUGGESTION, geeze.

If your dog pees during the night, then your dog pees. No big deal.