Best collar for a stubborn dog?

leesuh · 03-23-2008, 02:13 AM

I've been using a Gentle Leader head collar on Domino which has been helping a lot with her pulling but I'm starting to worry about it. While it does work tons better than a regular collar, she does still pull some and sometimes I notice little pink marks across where the nose strap goes. Granted, Domino has very short white hair and pink skin so these kinds of things will show up on her easily. But either way I'm concerned about it irritating her skin.

I've considered trying a pinch collar. Like most people I am wary about them but I'm willing to give it a shot. There are several trainers where I work, as well as pinches I could use for trial, so I would definitely get advise on the best way to go about using it.

My question is this, do you guys think this will work any better? Since she's so stubborn and does her best to ignore discomfort, I'm afraid she'll still pull on the pinch and I don't want her injuring herself or just irritating her skin in a different area.

Jak · 03-23-2008, 03:54 AM

I was in your exact situation a few months ago. When I used the Head Harness with Jak, he would pull so strongly that it would leave imprints on his face, after one night where it came way too close to hurting his eye, I decided to stop using it.

I ended up using the prong/pinch collar and it works way better than both the Gentle Leader Head Harness and Easy Walk Harness. Jak is a husky and a rescued stray, so he would pull really hard, but now I have him under control. (Its not a heel, but I don't mind

) He didn't show any response to the discomfort from the other two, but he is much more responsive with the prong. So I'd say definitely try it out.

When you put it on keep it right under the chin, and snug enough not to fall down, because if you put in on your dog's throat you'll risk a throat injury. [http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm]

Edit: Oh! And by the way, I don't "pop" the prong collar at all. I really don't see any need to, if you slow down or stop and your dog keeps pulling they just reach the end and correct themselves, same dynamic as all the other training aids.

Curbside Prophet · 03-23-2008, 11:20 AM

What kind of training are you doing in addition to the tool?

leesuh · 03-23-2008, 11:10 PM

Jak - Thanks for the info, that's good to hear! I'll give it a shot if I don't manage to get this head harness thing worked out.

Curb - Well I did the initial getting used to it routine although sometimes she does still try to mess with the nose strap, not usually during the walk but on our way back in. When she does this I walk her along faster so she can't stop to use her feet and then it only gets taken off after she sits calmly and leaves it alone. For corrections I do what the booklet it came with said about gently pulling up with the lead. Maybe I need to make her stop and sit anytime she starts pulling on it? This will be a lot of stopping and sitting but whatever works.

Curbside Prophet · 03-23-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesuh

Curb - Well I did the initial getting used to it routine although sometimes she does still try to mess with the nose strap, not usually during the walk but on our way back in. When she does this I walk her along faster so she can't stop to use her feet and then it only gets taken off after she sits calmly and leaves it alone. For corrections I do what the booklet it came with said about gently pulling up with the lead. Maybe I need to make her stop and sit anytime she starts pulling on it? This will be a lot of stopping and sitting but whatever works.

I think you need to take a step back and teach her why being at your side is the most rewarding. Is she food motivated? Have you read the sticky on loose leash walking?

helen01 · 03-23-2008, 11:35 PM

i've been through that many collars, chocker's and also the gentle leader. none worked with jade, until i got a harness, it's a lot better, no pulling on her neck or head or nose, it goes around her body, with the lead at the top of her body. so i guess it's just trial and error. good luck.

leesuh · 03-24-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I think you need to take a step back and teach her why being at your side is the most rewarding. Is she food motivated? Have you read the sticky on loose leash walking?

Yes she's very food modivated and yeah I have read that sticky. Okay, I'll work on it more before switching collars. I think you're right, she just needs better manners. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on a training collar forever! Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by helen01

i've been through that many collars, chocker's and also the gentle leader. none worked with jade, until i got a harness, it's a lot better, no pulling on her neck or head or nose, it goes around her body, with the lead at the top of her body. so i guess it's just trial and error. good luck.

That's cool that the harness worked for Jade. I've never had good luck with regular harnesses since they allow for more pulling. I used one on Jasmine for awhile not long after I first got her because she pulled on her collar so much. It didn't hurt her neck and make her cough like her collar was, but she still pulled a lot. I ended up using the Gentle Leader easy walk harness with her for awhile which worked great and now she's great on just her regular collar.

helen01 · 03-25-2008, 12:02 AM

glad to hear that your training is working. i hope you can both jasmine and domino under your control soon and you can all enjoy your walks.

leesuh · 03-25-2008, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helen01

glad to hear that your training is working. i hope you can both jasmine and domino under your control soon and you can all enjoy your walks.

We're getting there.

Thanks!

meanderer · 03-26-2008, 02:48 PM

The prong collar is an excellent tool if you use it right and size it right.

Here is a good link to sizing and other info on prong collars... http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

leesuh · 03-26-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meanderer

The prong collar is an excellent tool if you use it right and size it right.

Here is a good link to sizing and other info on prong collars... http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

Thanks for the info!

Roscosmom · 03-26-2008, 03:10 PM

I bought one of these this past weekend and have been using it for a few days and I have to praise it completely..it's amazing and I'm thrilled with it! Rosco was pulling me like crazy and now, after just a few days, he walks right beside me with plenty of loose leash to spare. Every once in awhile he tries to gallop into full speed but immediately relaxes and glances back at me. It's my new best friend, so much so that I bought a second one off of eBay so that I can finally walk my dogs together (which was always a challenge because they want to race constantly!)

helen01 · 03-26-2008, 05:46 PM

that training halter is pretty close to the halter i use on jade, only our's is a bit thicker where it goes around the body and the chest. but it works.

mydogspot · 03-26-2008, 06:02 PM

I have only skimmed the responses so if this has already been suggested....oops.

The Halti brand no pull (front leash attachment) harness is the best one that I have ever carried in my tool kit.
http://www.petexpertise.com/item--Ha...alti_harn.html

I'm not a fan of any tools that add aversives to social or learning situations so I was really happy to find something that provides as much or more control without causing pain or discomfort. Of course this tool, like any other is simply that, and only provides pain free control while training progresses.

The reason that I like this brand better than any other front attachment harnesses is that it has the secondary clip that pulls the chest strap up to the collar. This provides the added safety of having it secured to the collar and it keeps the chest stap from riding too low, which is a huge problem with the Easy walk version. I've seen large breeds end up falling onto their sternums wearing the Easy walk harness.

The sizes are great too. The mediums can fit so many breeds, there is so much room for adjustment. I have smaller pits using the medium yet my 85 lb. very deep chested girl still fits the medium. The large is really only for mastiffs and other extra large breeds. The small size doesn't fit anything smaller than a regular sized beagle.

leesuh · 03-27-2008, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roscosmom

I bought one of these this past weekend and have been using it for a few days and I have to praise it completely..it's amazing and I'm thrilled with it! Rosco was pulling me like crazy and now, after just a few days, he walks right beside me with plenty of loose leash to spare. Every once in awhile he tries to gallop into full speed but immediately relaxes and glances back at me. It's my new best friend, so much so that I bought a second one off of eBay so that I can finally walk my dogs together (which was always a challenge because they want to race constantly!)

I checked it out but I don't think I quite understand how it works. How does it stop them from pulling?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mydogspot

I have only skimmed the responses so if this has already been suggested....oops.

The Halti brand no pull (front leash attachment) harness is the best one that I have ever carried in my tool kit.
http://www.petexpertise.com/item--Ha...alti_harn.html

I've tried the Easy Walk on her and it fit her fine (I know what you mean about them falling low though, it did that some with Jasmine). It just didn't keep her from pulling as much as the head halter. That clip to the collar is a neat little added feature but I imagine it works mostly the same?

Roscosmom · 03-27-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesuh

I checked it out but I don't think I quite understand how it works. How does it stop them from pulling?

Those straps that go under the legs are brought together with an adjustable clasp, connected with a ring that you hook the leash to. So when they yank away it pulls at the leash and tightens around their legs. It all seems very simple so I'm not quite sure what it is exactly that makes them not pull. From what I can tell- it must make them feel like their feet are going to slip beneath them and their face will hit the ground when they pull away- so they don't do it.

leesuh · 03-27-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roscosmom

Those straps that go under the legs are brought together with an adjustable clasp, connected with a ring that you hook the leash to. So when they yank away it pulls at the leash and tightens around their legs. It all seems very simple so I'm not quite sure what it is exactly that makes them not pull. From what I can tell- it must make them feel like their feet are going to slip beneath them and their face will hit the ground when they pull away- so they don't do it.

Oh I see, interesting!

Chindo_Gae_Cerberus · 03-27-2008, 01:46 PM

Personally, between either a Martinegale (aka greyhound/sight hound collar, etc.) or a slip lead training collar (aka choke chain) and the Halti I've never met a dog I couldn't teach to walk with one of those yet.

It's all about the dog, all about you, and how well the collar/harness devise is properly adjusted and used.

My default collar for almost all breeds is the half chain Martingale.

mydogspot · 03-27-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesuh

I checked it out but I don't think I quite understand how it works. How does it stop them from pulling?

I've tried the Easy Walk on her and it fit her fine (I know what you mean about them falling low though, it did that some with Jasmine). It just didn't keep her from pulling as much as the head halter. That clip to the collar is a neat little added feature but I imagine it works mostly the same?

First, OMG...your dogs are so gorgeous. I love the markings!

I actually find that the floating front clip of the Halti brand does give more control than the Easy Walk brand (dog turns to face you and looses leverage). Again, nothing repalces training as I'm sure you already know but using a head collar or any other device that adds an element of discomfort can add it's own set of problems, though I know they often do give more power steering. I'm only 4'9" and just under 100 lbs. and I haven't met a dog yet that when properly fitted in the Halti harness, I can't control while training. Head collars definitely do give a bit more bang for your buck but they are hell to habituate your dog to and they can interrupt body language to the point of creating other issues.

I would only ever use a martingale collar for a sight hound, I still find that dogs acclimate to the choking effect and they have little value as a control tool. I honestly don't consider any tool a 'training' tool. JMO of course..

leesuh · 03-27-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mydogspot

First, OMG...your dogs are so gorgeous. I love the markings!

Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mydogspot

Head collars definitely do give a bit more bang for your buck but they are hell to habituate your dog to and they can interrupt body language to the point of creating other issues.

Hm, what kind of body language issues have come up?

I could always go back to the Easy Walk if I needed to (and I'm sure I could find a way to clip it to her collar so I wouldn't have to dish out money for that other one). I just kind of like having the head control I have with the head collar. It's harder to give corrections with the EW.