[PeagleOwner]

Hi group,

New to the forums but looks great! I know I have some stickies to read but the other day I did check out the one on walking.

Here's my issue: I have a 3 yr old 45-lb. Beagle/Pekingese named Cosmo. We adopted him back in 11/06. I love him to death (he's my first dog I've had since I was a kid). We go just about everywhere together. When I first got him, he pulled terribly. We took him to Petsmart for puppy and intermediate training classes. Over this time, his walking has gotten better although he still pulls. A while back, on the advice of our trainer, we got a type of harness that has a strap that goes across the front of his chest. It is supposed to discourage pulling because it will sort of turn him or impede him from walking easily. I give him a little pull "back" when he pulls too much and sometimes that seems to help but he ends up right back out front.

I take him out every morning and every evening totalling about 45 minutes to 1 hour. As we're walking, if he starts to pull, I simply stop (this seems to be a recommended method to teach dogs not to pull). However, he stops and sits (which I am glad for) but he will sit there until I start walking again so I can't really use that training method.

Can any of you all offer suggestions? Our trainer discouraged the use of a pinch collar (?) except in certain cases. Is it too early for me to be thinking about something like that? I can't really stand the idea of something that would hurt him but ultimately if it would make walks more enjoyable...

Thanks to all for your input,

Carl

[katthevamp]

Are you trying to get him to heel or to not pull?

Choke chains aren't that bad, and I've found that by placing it high up on Fry's neck, she doesn't pull. When I need her to heel, I don't give her enough leash to leave the position I want her in. But, tat's me and my dog, not yours. And if you don't want to use something, don't.

Edit: Oh wait, a choke chain and a pinch are not the same. Sorry.

[Annamarie]

I would use a martingale collar instead of a harness. I have yet to find a harness that doesn't actually encourage the dog to pull. it's just their natural instinct to pull against pressure. The martingale collar is like a choke chain kind of but will only tighten to a certain point.

Another thing you might try is holding the leash on your hip to the length you want your dog to be at. IE if you want your dog to be beside you, only let the dog have that amount of leash. When we're walking we tend to swing our arms and sometimes get grabby with the leash which can confuse the dog. By giving them a set amount of leash that they can learn the boundary they sometimes learn faster. I discovered this method by accident when walking my dog who pulled the leash in winter. When i put my hands in my pockets and quit fiddling with the leash, he stayed within the boundaries I'd allotted him.

[briteday]

Instead of standing still when your dog pulls you can try turning and walking in the other diirection. It teaches most dogs that they need to pay attention to you, which is easier if they are walking closer to you.

[Dogstar]

Choke chains are considerably more dangerous than a pinch collar. I don't think a pinch collar is an unreasonable solution for you, but you might also want to figure out exactly what you want him TO do- not just what you want him NOT to do.

For my guys, on casual walks, I want them out in front of me. They're free to sniff, but I don't want them crossing back and forth- it ends up with tangles in the leads. They can range out as far as the end of the leash or walk closer to me, but they need to NOT be pulling- or lagging. So I shape the behavior with a clicker. It's slow- it's NOT an overnight fix, and a prong might be a reasonable management tool in the short term (especially if your dog is more beaglish, size-wise.) But it DOES work.

Despite the scary look, prongs really are NOT that harsh. Get a good brand and make sure it's fit properly. Depending on the size of your dog's neck, you might also consider the 'micro prong', which has very small links. Smaller links (and more prongs) distribute any pressure over more area than larger links, but too small is flimsy.) Unlike a choke, a prong (or a martingale) tightens the whole collar to the entirity of the dog's neck- it doesn't JUST apply pressure to the front of the neck.

Briteday's changing direction scenario can work really well. You can also use this to shape it- every time the dog runs past you on the way to get ahead of whichever way you're going, click and treat. Hold the treat in the hand on the same side as the dog, and hand it to him with it in the cup of your hand, with your hand palm back- so that he can't get to it unless he's approximately in heel position, or slightly in front of that, and facing the same way you are. Treating in position can help, too, and changing directions gives you lots of opportunities to catch your dog doing the right thing and reward it!

Dawn Jecht's "Choose to Heel" video might also be useful for you. Although it's focused on competition heeling, some of the techniques ARE useful for LLW. It can usually be found used on Amazon.

[SMoore]

Petsmart dog trainers are taught to only reinforce positive dog training so they will never suggest a prong or choke collar. It's unfortunate too because I know a lot of people buy them anyway and if the trainer would just educate themselves on how to properly fit it there would be a lot less people walking around with a prong collar on their dog incorrectly.

I'm all for positive reinforcement dog training and I would use a prong collar as a last resort (and I would never put a choke chain on my dog) but from what I have seen from people who have done research on the tool is that it helps with the issue at hand but eventually it can be put away and never used again. it's a TOOL actual training must still occur.

Also I wouldnt use one on a dog under 6 months of age. I work at Petsmart and have constantly had people asking me how I got my dog to walk so nicely on her leash. They assume i've done all the petsmart classes which I have but I also had to use a prong collar after trying several other methods first. I also only had to use the prong collar for about 2-3 months before I could put it away. Now my dog walks fine even with distractions she listens perfectly.

If you do decide to try a prong collar after everything else has failed DO RESEARCH FIRST. Also, buy a good quality prong collar don't buy the cheap ones at petsmart. They are still effective, however, the herm springer prongs are a lot more secure and also more rounded on the ends instead of sharp.

I do not like Ed Frawleys methods of dog training at least most of them but this article is worth reading for anyone considering a prong collar

http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

Good luck with the training.

[PeagleOwner]

Thanks to you all for your time and suggestions. I will go check out the Martingale collar (which as I read this, IS a prong collar). Before that though, I will try the method of changing directions when walking and click/reward. I think I may need to take one boy out at a time though - I usually take them out together. Thanks again.

Carl

[SMoore]

A martingale collar is not a prong collar. A martingale collar is a different (more humane) version of the slip collar, basically. Instead of being able to close as much as possible it has a limit.



This is a martingale collar, the training at petsmart will allow you to use this and I believe you can also use one on the CGC but im not 100% on that.


This is a herm springer prong collar.


This is what the prong collar looks like when it is placed properly on the dogs neck. Extra links are removed so that it stays high up on the dogs neck instead of lower. Also, it is angled towards the side and you hook the leash on either the right or left depending on where you prefer to stand when walking your dog.

It's also important when using a martingale to keep it high up on the neck as well. The less presure on the trachea the better.

[Manoon]

A pink chain is NOT something you should take for your dog to stop pulling ; the points have to be outside to protect the neck of your dog from attacks, and not on the neck of your doggy.

I would recommend you a martingale collar, I think it's a good thing.

To make your dog not pulling, put the lead on the opposite hand you put usually, and pass the lead behind your legs ; you can control the lead with your other hand.
In this way, when you're walking, every step you're making does a little pull to your dog ; it isn't demanding you a lot of efforts, but it's really annoying for your dog.

[cshellenberger]

Here are the most effective tools I've found to stop pulling!

http://www.softouchconcepts.com/prod...e_harness.html

http://www.premier.com/View.aspx?pag...lk/description

Both stop pulling by redirecting the pul and taking the reward out of it.