housebreaking confusion.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-02-2006, 12:20 PM

Alright, my husband brought home a puppy that he found, and she has become ours as we haven't found another home for her (or her original owner), and have (quickly) grown to love her, she is an absolute darling. She definitely looks like a beagle, although she is all blonde. My guess is she is 10-11 weeks old. Very good natured dog, although she gets a little bit nippy, she is quickly learning that we won't tolerate her biting. Everything I have been teaching her, she seems to pick up very fast, she is eager to learn and to please.

I am home most days all day, and she gets plenty of attention, and never leaves my sight. If she does, she comes immediately when called (indoors, anyhow.) Outdoors, her time off of the lead is very very limited. I have read all of the puppy housebreaking suggestions, and it seemed to be working really well, we try to limit all of her playtime to being indoors, and take her out frequently. We feed her twice a day on a schedule. But the schedule is the hard part. She goes SO much. I can't possibly take her out at the same time every day to get her on a schedule, because she goes every half hour usually. Sometimes more frequently, and, sometimes less. How can I possibly give her a real potty schedule when she goes so much? I have considered perhaps she has a urinary infection, but she does #2 a lot also. I understand that she is a puppy, but I don't know how to incorporate a schedule when such frequent outings are necessary. She has accidents in the house a few times a day, because she has no way of warning me that she needs to go out. I take her out often, and always keep a close eye on her, but she doesnt even walk in circles or sniff around. She will just squat and go out of the blue.
Also, she stays in a crate at night with a puppy pad, which she will occasionally pee on. She doesn't mind her crate one bit when it is bedtime, though she never goes in it during the day except to retrieve a toy.

Help? I don't know what else I should be doing, and I don't want her to learn bad habits. She is a very sweet dog, and doing very well, but she is also my first dog and I know that she needs better training from me.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-02-2006, 12:24 PM

Also, I should add. We don't have much money, though we feed her and lavish her with as many toys and treats as we can, we can not afford trips to the vet, especially not frequently. Is there any way to rule out a UTI without a trip to the vet? At least not immediately, that sort of thing will have to be saved up for.
(Please spare me a lecture on having a dog we can not afford to give proper medical care to. Keep in mind, I can not provide MYSELF proper medical care, and it is no cheaper to take a pet to the doctor. We gave this homeless puppy a loving home, and food on her plate, which is much better than being at the pound or back on the streets. Appreciate your understanding.) Thank you.

Curbside Prophet · 12-02-2006, 12:31 PM

First off, welcome to our forum. My first question is, has she been to the vet recently? You mentioned possible UTI, but never said if you actually took the dog to the vet. If it is in fact not UTI, or some other medical condition, it's time for an umbilical cord. Leash that little gal to your waist so if she does decide to squat unexpectantly, you can quickly sweep her up and take her outside. She is still a very young pup, and it can take months for a dog to be fully housetrained. So please don't feel out of place, as this can be very normal. To me it sounds like your doing all many right things. But do you praise her like there's no tomorrow if she does do her business outside? This is the key to housetraining. Good luck, and again, welcome.

***the vet visit, in my mind, is necessary***

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-02-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

First off, welcome to our forum. My first question is, has she been to the vet recently? You mentioned possible UTI, but never said if you actually took the dog to the vet. If it is in fact not UTI, or some other medical condition, it's time for an umbilical cord. Leash that little gal to your waist so if she does decide to squat unexpectantly, you can quickly sweep her up and take her outside. She is still a very young pup, and it can take months for a dog to be fully housetrained. So please don't feel out of place, as this can be very normal. To me it sounds like your doing all many right things. But do you praise her like there's no tomorrow if she does do her business outside? This is the key to housetraining. Good luck, and again, welcome.

***the vet visit, in my mind, is necessary***

Yes, definitely! She gets plenty of praise for going outside while she goes, and after she goes, and then again for going to the door to be let in. She is not a big fan of her leash. Sometimes when we are outside, she will tug at it, and wrestle around with it instead of going, though we always use the lead. It is difficult to keep her on the lead in the house, because we have cats who antagonize her when she is penned up in any way. We have to cover her crate at night as if she is a bird, because the one cat will sit on top of her crate and tease her through the bars. lol
I don't expect her housebreaking to be overnight, but I am just terrified of her developing bad habits that I can't break.
Also, no, she has not been to the vet at all. She really seems to be in great health so far, and there is a local organization that helps with spaying for people who cannot afford it. Unfortunately, all they deal with is spay/neuter. I am not sure at what age she is supposed to be altered, but, that will probably be the first vet visit we can afford. Her coat is soft and shiny, she is energetic, and sleeps regularly. Her nose is moist and her eyes are clear and bright, she does have a few fleas, but we keep the house very clean so they have not been a big problem so far (except for effectively getting RID of them). Her stool is very healthy looking, solid, but she has no trouble going. She is a very perky, happy, loyal little pup.
When I catch her going inside (which is almost every time, as she is always with me) I tell her NO and take her out. She is a small dog though, and pees very little so usually she is done by the time I pick her up. It is just recently that she seems less inclined to go immediately when we go outside. I don't play with her, and if she doesn't go, I just bring her straight in and take her out again in a little bit, with no praise outside or for coming to the door. (i dont know if this is right, but i thought it would confuse her.) Usually if she doesn't go when we are outside, I don't let her go to the door, but instead pick her up and carry her inside. I'm just not sure why she seems to be losing interest in going potty outside, for a while she would go immediately when we got out. Now it is suddenly becoming a struggle, though I haven't changed any of my methods. I'm not sure what happened.

juls · 12-02-2006, 01:04 PM

It's nearly impossible to have a set schedule for that young of a puppy. The most you can do is take her out every time before you put her in a crate (if she is crate trained- and if she isn't, you should do it because it will REALLY help with housebreaking. I know you said the cats tease her but you could put the crate in a room and shut the door) and take her out every time you let her out of the crate. Also, take her out after every time she eats. Additionally, if she's playing a lot, she may need to pee as often as every 10 minutes (that is the really hard part for you!) Don't worry, as she gets older, she'll be able to hold it for much longer. Like Curbside Prophet said, praise her when she goes outside- overly praise her actually.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-02-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juls

It's nearly impossible to have a set schedule for that young of a puppy. The most you can do is take her out every time before you put her in a crate (if she is crate trained- and if she isn't, you should do it because it will REALLY help with housebreaking. I know you said the cats tease her but you could put the crate in a room and shut the door) and take her out every time you let her out of the crate. Also, take her out after every time she eats. Additionally, if she's playing a lot, she may need to pee as often as every 10 minutes (that is the really hard part for you!) Don't worry, as she gets older, she'll be able to hold it for much longer. Like Curbside Prophet said, praise her when she goes outside- overly praise her actually.

She REALLY does pee that often some days. It makes me nuts when I am trying to do something. She does not like to be in her crate during the day, like I said. She will go in to retrieve a toy, but she is only quiet and content in the crate when we go to bed.

Sawyer · 12-02-2006, 01:58 PM

My pup needed to go out so much the first couple of weeks we had him - he'd go 2 hours without needing to go and then the next time only 10 minutes! Your schedule can come later, he may be younger than you think. Also, if she is using her pee pad, you may want to get up throughout the night to let her out. She can hold it longer because she is sleeping and nights are great time to train as well.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-02-2006, 02:04 PM

Is it true that if she has accidents now, she always will? I have heard that a few times and that is my biggest concern, that I am failing at housebreaking by allowing her to have the chance to have an accident. I feel bad putting her in the crate too often, I give her room to play, but always in my sight. Is my best option really to have her always tied or penned?

Curbside Prophet · 12-02-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyNeffie

Is my best option really to have her always tied or penned?

Not necessarily. As long as you have quick access to say "NO", and sweep her off her feet while she is in that act, then no, she doesn't always need to be tied or penned. She does need to learn what "no" means or "stop", but when it comes to accidents in the house, you have to catch her in the act. The reason crates are so convenient is, because if you need 20 minutes to wash the dishes, that's 20 minutes you don't have to look over your shoulder to see if your pup had an accident. But as long as you're willing to let her be a puppy, and have accident, but be there to teach her right from wrong, then no, she doesn't have to be in a crate. Some people believe the pup should be in the crate all the time. I dont believe this, and it's usually people who value their carpet more than their pup's learning abilities...IMO. Sometimes a crate can be too convenient for them. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I just have a differnt perspective of my pups mental health. So, use the crate wisely. As for spay, you're vet will probably recommend that you wait until your pup is at least 6 months old...so you have that much time to save for that vistit if it does cost you anything. But for you're pups first visit, you can expect the initial shots and physical to cast anywhere from $50-$150. You should at least call your vet and explain the predicament your in. They may be able to recommend another service for you, or come up with differnt payment options that will better fit your financial situation. But please do get a vet visit scheduled ASAP. We wouldn't want to make problems worse for you in the future.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-02-2006, 03:08 PM

Thanks very much, you've all been very helpful.

juls · 12-02-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyNeffie

She REALLY does pee that often some days. It makes me nuts when I am trying to do something. She does not like to be in her crate during the day, like I said. She will go in to retrieve a toy, but she is only quiet and content in the crate when we go to bed.

My puppy was the same way- it was really annoying taking her out that often but it beats cleaning up accidents.

I doubt any dogs really like being in the crate during the day unless they are crate trained. Just because she sleeps in at a night doesn't mean she is crate trained. My puppy, too, was only quiet at night but you almost have to put them in during the day too in order to basically teach them to hold their bladders. I can't stress the importance of crate training enough (obviously). Just put her in for 5 minutes a couple times a day (stay in the room with her but ignore her whining), then increase to 10, 15, and 20 minutes. After that, do 5,10, 15, and 20 minutes without being in the room. She'll learn that you will come back and won't bark/whine when she is in there. If she does, it will only last a few minutes.

Sawyer · 12-02-2006, 07:38 PM

Hi again. I forgot to mention that if you haven't already tried it - you can call your local shelter. Often times they have great information. Ours even has a trainer who donates her time to help new owners who got their dog from the shelter. They may be able to get you in touch with someone who can help.

blackgavotte · 12-02-2006, 08:44 PM

I just want to add, that I also, as lots of you know,

have a problem with very young puppies spending that much time in a crate. They can and do often have to go as much as every half hour at this age, its not so strange with smaller breeds.

I still believe an exercise pen or enclosure of some sort with pee pads or newspaper is a necessary middle step from nest to crate training, it is better psychologically for any dog, I absolutely believe that !!

And while that stage is being worked on, still take them out often so they also get the outdoors potty training done. Giving her the run of the house at this point is allowing her to make mistakes on floors and carpets, and crating her as much as some people do at this age is very bad for them, and can end up with them becoming dirty in their crates.

I find very few dogs really like crates, though they do learn to accept them, I can hear everyone now, but I bet the dogs who actually do willingly go in and out of their crates are dogs who were not put in lockdown too much at this young age. A crate is not a den !

Okay, I won't say more, but my concern here is also that this puppy should have had her first vaccine if she is 10 weeks or so. You must find the money to get that done, then her 12 week and 16 week vaccines too. That's imperative. When you do take her in for her first shot, talk to the vet about the bladder, but I think its pretty typical of many smaller breed puppies. Good luck, she's a lucky puppy.

cshellenberger · 12-03-2006, 12:30 AM

Try to find a low-cost vet service, often your county humane society will have a list of them. Not geting a UTI diagnosed right away can cost you ALOT more money than getting an early diagnosis and treatment as she could wind up with kidney an/or bladder crystals a the least and kidney failure at the the worst.

Dulce · 12-03-2006, 12:41 AM

First, part of responsible dog ownership is taking it potty frequently, and taking it to the vet. If you cannot afford to do so, I would suggest finding a new home for the dog.

Continue to take her out every 30 minutes or so to go potty. She won't tell you when she needs to go. You have to do that for her.

Having her potty in her crate is a bad idea. THAT'S teaching a bad habit, and is unsanitary, and unnatural. Set up an exercise pen around the crate, and put pee pads in there, not in the crate.
During the potty training process, I would keep her on a line/leash at all times. I had my dog on a leash when I first got her 24/7 even though she was 1.5 years. There are tie out options for inside the house. I have pics if you need them.

Praise lots when the pup goes potty outside. Make a phrase like "Potty" or "pee!" or "poop" that way the dog associates that word with the praise he is getting, and urinating outside in the appropriate place.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-03-2006, 02:55 PM

Well, I was happy to have asked my question on this site, but now I definitely regret it.
Suggesting to find help for veterinary care is one thing, but suggesting that I am not a worthy dog owner is a completely different story. I won't bother posting here again.

Dulce · 12-03-2006, 02:59 PM

I don't think that anybody said you weren't a "worthy" dog owner, but ok.
We're sorry you feel that way. We wish you the best.

TheOnlyNeffie · 12-03-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dulce

I don't think that anybody said you weren't a "worthy" dog owner, but ok.
We're sorry you feel that way. We wish you the best.

"I suggest finding a new home for the dog" certainly sounds that way. Maybe that is not what you meant, but that is obviously the way it sounds. I can understand that dog lovers find proper medical care imperative, but as much of an animal lover as I am, I don't forget that they are still animals. Mine, and my husband's family have had dogs for years, who never recieved routine shots and lived to be 10-18 years old. When they are sick, they go to the vet, to prevent overpopulation and future illness, I have my pets spayed and neutered. To not make it my priority to have my dog get all of her shots over putting food on her plate and ours, does not make me think that I should not own a dog. She has love, a home, and food to eat, lots of attention and a devoted owner. Suggesting that I give her away because I can't afford to give her routine prevention shots is really a very mean thing to say.

Curbside Prophet · 12-03-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyNeffie

Suggesting that I give her away because I can't afford to give her routine prevention shots is really a very mean thing to say.

I don't think Dulce was intending to be mean at all. Nor do I believe it's mean to reccomend that you rehome the dog if in fact you can't afford routine medical care. All of us would hate for you to suffer an ever greater medical expense or tougher medical decision by choosing not to give your dog basic medical care. In my mind, that's a responsible and caring concern, not a mean one. Don't you belive that if you rehomed the dog with someone who provides everything you do and medical care that this would be a better situation for your dog? I'm sure as a caring dog owner, you do. And yes, there are exception. I know people who smoked cigarettes all their live and lived well into their 80's, but common sense still says smoking is not good for you. And I know very few people, if any, who would recommend smoking for all your life. So please don't blame us for pushing and expecting you to provide basic medical care, because we could never recommend the alternative. I hope this helps in some way. Good luck!

Dulce · 12-04-2006, 12:15 AM

VERY well said, Curbside.

I wasn't trying to be mean, I was being honest. Like I said before, part of responsible pet ownership is medical care. If you cannot afford it, especially when your dog needs it, I don't feel it's fair to the dog.

I only want what's best for the dog. Shots are extremely important. That's a necessity to pet ownership. It's just something that comes with the territory.

If you had kids, wouldn't you get them their tetna shots? (sp?) Chicken pox, vaccinations, flu shot, etc.? I think you would. As any parent would.

Anyway, I only want the dog to be healthy. You came on here asking for help, and we gave it. I was only being honest, and I just want what's best for the poor dog. It's alreay gone thru enough.