[Jr. Dog Expert]

Everyone, thanks for posting! I find that in other dog forums the sole mention of prong collar makes everyone think that you are trying to kill the dog! It's silly I know. Seems like the general consensus is that its a tool, and when used properly it can have good benefits, once it has completed its purpose it is to be put away and you are now responsible for finishing the work that the prong started, correct?

I like what LoneWolfBlue posted about a case in which a dog didn't respond well to the prong, just goes to show that every dog is different and reacts differently. Guess you just have to keep looking for the perfect tool in that case!

Thanks again everyone!

[ACampbell]

I'd like to add to this. I bought one for Smokey, because he was pulling my arm off! I seriously had no control and couldn't handle the pulling due to a torn ligament in my right shoulder (even though I'm a lefty) but it would take 2 hands to keep him from pulling me down, since he is almost the same as me in weight and obviously stronger.
I used it for a few weeks then went back to a flat nylon collar...he's now a joy to walk and no longer drags me along like a kite on a string.
I think they are a nice tool to have if you've gotten a dog that already has a pulling problem and isn't interested in food rewards or praise to try to accomplish the mission at hand. Otherwise, I think that positive training is the better way to go, but if it's not working, I'd definetely reccommend a prong collar.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by Jr. Dog Expert

Everyone, thanks for posting! I find that in other dog forums the sole mention of prong collar makes everyone think that you are trying to kill the dog! It's silly I know. Seems like the general consensus is that its a tool, and when used properly it can have good benefits, once it has completed its purpose it is to be put away and you are now responsible for finishing the work that the prong started, correct?

I like what LoneWolfBlue posted about a case in which a dog didn't respond well to the prong, just goes to show that every dog is different and reacts differently. Guess you just have to keep looking for the perfect tool in that case!

Thanks again everyone!

Exactly. It is just a tool, and should be used as just that. I agree, there are people in here that don't like the prongs, and don't use it themselves, but at least they do recognize them as being another tool and don't bombard people who use them just because they don't. And they also give their opinions as well. But they don't knock people for using them.

As for Betty, she does great training with a Prong collar. But when around other dogs where she becomes Reactive, it just increases that reactivity. So I don't use it on walks, etc, but do use it for Rally training. But she's getting to the point where her training is now done almost all on her regular collar, phasing the prong collar out.

[melgrj7]

I also found a prong collar to make Allie more reactive (she is very leash reactive). She has had 5 years of pulling with her previous owners, she enjoys pulling. Its always gotten her to where she wanted to be, its been highly reinforced. So, its proving to be a hard habit to break with her. I tried the prong on her twice, definitely not the tool for this dog! With Lloyd it worked great, with Allie not so much. Funny enough, Allie walks great off leash, never leaves my side, on leash she isn't so great.

[EXBCMC]

two labs, would not live w/out the collar. VERY well behaved when they are on! like turning on a switch.

[Jr. Dog Expert]

Originally Posted by melgrj7

I also found a prong collar to make Allie more reactive (she is very leash reactive). She has had 5 years of pulling with her previous owners, she enjoys pulling. Its always gotten her to where she wanted to be, its been highly reinforced. So, its proving to be a hard habit to break with her. I tried the prong on her twice, definitely not the tool for this dog! With Lloyd it worked great, with Allie not so much. Funny enough, Allie walks great off leash, never leaves my side, on leash she isn't so great.

So if the prong collar doesn't work, what are you trying to use to stop the pulling?

[tparker]

Using a pinch collar has allowed us to take Lily and turn her from a sled dog to a walking companion immediately and we hope to wean her off it as time and patience allow. I am going to try a Martingale type slip collar next unless someone has a suggestion.
p.s. I sure hope there are no heath problems from the pinch and tried it on my leg and all that stuff and am very aware of not letting her pull too much.

[B-doggy]

Wow, it has been really great to read through all the posts on this topic. We just ordered Don Sullivan's package (which comes with a prong collar) because Bronx has started lunging at little children, and is way too strong for me when he other dogs are around. Other leads do not seem to work. Reading through other (un-informed!) people's blogs/forums worried me a little with the incredibly negative response, but here everyone who is posting has actually USED the prong collar. It's a well-informed, positive discussion, and nice to see. I will keep you posted on how it goes when we get it in the mail and begin training

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by B-doggy

Wow, it has been really great to read through all the posts on this topic. We just ordered Don Sullivan's package (which comes with a prong collar) because Bronx has started lunging at little children, and is way too strong for me when he other dogs are around. Other leads do not seem to work. Reading through other (un-informed!) people's blogs/forums worried me a little with the incredibly negative response, but here everyone who is posting has actually USED the prong collar. It's a well-informed, positive discussion, and nice to see. I will keep you posted on how it goes when we get it in the mail and begin training

Well, just to inform you, some people on here use the Prong collar (including myself for training purposes only) and others don't, but there's been some threads on Don Sullivan's training that are kind of iffy (Sometimes it stirs people up). Don's collar isn't a prong collar, it's a plastic collar that's similar to the Prong, but is not a Prong. IMO, because I have the other plastic collar that is similar to Don's collar (Can't remember the exact name of it), it's not a Prong. It doesn't have near the effectiveness, and my dogs pull on it with no problems, like they do on regular collars. Go ahead and use the DS collar and give us your honest comments on it, and if it's doesn't turn out real well, try a real Prong collar. You will have much more control, IMO. Many of us aren't DS fans, but I personally won't knock people who try it, and hope they give their honest opinions on the program. Keep us posted on how things go.

[*Gordi*]

It's a No-Go!! Definitly!!

And it's not only forbitten in UK, also in Austria, Switzerland and in Germany.. And that's ok!!

[wvasko]

I posted this on the favorite collar thread and decided to dump it on here also.

My favorite working collar:
Well truth be told, of the last 500 dogs I've trained I may have had 5 that I swapped from prong collar to a different type of collar and possibly 20 that I reversed the prong until they got desensitized enough to reverse back. These were all started with martingale and prong together. Actually I like a prong because it's like power steering, much easier on dog because the corrections can be much lighter. Since I don't have a personal relationship with the dogs there is no ego involved. Sometimes with clients ego is involved when they work their own dogs and tempers are lost and dog damage is done. Watch a little league ball game and watch the parents hollering at their own kids. You know there not going to treat their dogs better than they treat their kids if they lose their tempers. Please I am not telling people to go out and buy prong collars, I am just giving my opinion on what is my favorite collar and why. I actually waited a couple days and was not going to post on this thread but decided to dive in. I don't remember exactly the percentages of collars before the last 500 dogs.

[GreatDaneMom]

Originally Posted by *Gordi*

It's a No-Go!! Definitly!!

And it's not only forbitten in UK, also in Austria, Switzerland and in Germany.. And that's ok!!

i would like to hear why its a no-go, if you dont mind sharing.

personally, i like them. i wish they wouldnt sell them to just anyone, but they are a great tool. i also wish they didnt not sell choke collars at all. i dont support those. the biggest problems i see with the chokes though is that EVERYONE has one and theyre constantly on the dog like a normal collar, and they are just using them and not using any training or anything.

back to prongs. i used one for both my danes. it worked for my brindle very well. she still wears it, but it just hangs on her. i never tighten or anything, she always walks at heel when its on. just the weight of it lets her know she has it on. if she doesnt have it on though, she will pull. i have tried a lot of training with walking with her, and shes just not getting it. so she will probably always wear the prong.

for my harlequin, she didnt respond to the prong well. she acted like it wasnt even there. it helped a little, but still, she would pull. she recently changed to a halti, which has worked wonders for her.

all in all, i like the prong as when it is used correctly it doesnt do the damage that a choke or even a flat buckle collar can do. with even pressure its not soley pressing on the throat or like the choke has no limit to which it can tighten which is very dangerous.

[Jr. Dog Expert]

Originally Posted by GreatDaneMom

i would like to hear why its a no-go, if you dont mind sharing.

personally, i like them. i wish they wouldnt sell them to just anyone, but they are a great tool. i also wish they didnt not sell choke collars at all. i dont support those. the biggest problems i see with the chokes though is that EVERYONE has one and theyre constantly on the dog like a normal collar, and they are just using them and not using any training or anything.

back to prongs. i used one for both my danes. it worked for my brindle very well. she still wears it, but it just hangs on her. i never tighten or anything, she always walks at heel when its on. just the weight of it lets her know she has it on. if she doesnt have it on though, she will pull. i have tried a lot of training with walking with her, and shes just not getting it. so she will probably always wear the prong.

for my harlequin, she didnt respond to the prong well. she acted like it wasnt even there. it helped a little, but still, she would pull. she recently changed to a halti, which has worked wonders for her.

all in all, i like the prong as when it is used correctly it doesnt do the damage that a choke or even a flat buckle collar can do. with even pressure its not soley pressing on the throat or like the choke has no limit to which it can tighten which is very dangerous.

Thats a great post GreatDaneMom! Just shows that every dog really does respond differently to different methods, there really is no such thing as a one for all training technique or collar, its just a trial and error kinda thing.

I completely agree that its truely sad to see people use correctional/training collars as normal collars on their dogs...I've witnessed it a couple times here too, you kinda want to tell them something

wvasko, those are some pretty strong percentages! Really does go to show the effectiveness of the collar when used correctly.

Thanks everyone!

[GreatDaneMom]

Originally Posted by Jr. Dog Expert

I completely agree that its truely sad to see people use correctional/training collars as normal collars on their dogs...I've witnessed it a couple times here too, you kinda want to tell them something

thanks. ugh whats even worse than just wearing prongs as regular collars, is when i see dogs at the park playing offleash STILL WEARING THE PRONG COLLAR!!! hello, dont you see something wrong with that?? i mean, if your dog slips and falls face first, hes going to catch himself a lot with his head and neck.... theres so many different ways they can get hurt like that. ugh. it makes me so mad. and i even saw one guy who kept it on but turned it so the prongs were facing out! so now any dog that plays with his could get an eye out or something!!! come on people!

[Jr. Dog Expert]

Originally Posted by GreatDaneMom

thanks. ugh whats even worse than just wearing prongs as regular collars, is when i see dogs at the park playing offleash STILL WEARING THE PRONG COLLAR!!! hello, dont you see something wrong with that?? i mean, if your dog slips and falls face first, hes going to catch himself a lot with his head and neck.... theres so many different ways they can get hurt like that. ugh. it makes me so mad. and i even saw one guy who kept it on but turned it so the prongs were facing out! so now any dog that plays with his could get an eye out or something!!! come on people!

Ya I know what you mean, it seems that common sense eludes some. ROFL. I mean imagine what would happen if that collar caught on a branch or something.... Wow

[*Gordi*]

Originally Posted by GreatDaneMom

i would like to hear why its a no-go, if you dont mind sharing.

personally, i like them. i wish they wouldnt sell them to just anyone, but they are a great tool. i also wish they didnt not sell choke collars at all. i dont support those. the biggest problems i see with the chokes though is that EVERYONE has one and theyre constantly on the dog like a normal collar, and they are just using them and not using any training or anything.

Ok I try- but please mind, that English ist not my native language

First of all, these collars are forbitten by law. 10.000 € has to be paid, if you use them.
I had once such a colar for my little girl, a cocker- lab- mix, 13 yrs. ago. Every move seemed to hurt. So I wanted to know how t feels ike wearing that collar by myself. Yes and indeed! The only thing you want to do is run away, it's like a reflex, and now it's hurts even more. Ok, I don't have fure on my neck, but i can't believe, that that doesn't hurt, although with fure.

I think, every dog can learn to walk properly on a leash, without pulling forward or so. It takes time ok, but I would never use a pinch collar for that. My Junior ist a dog who can't stand still for a second, walking on a leash he learned with a Halti (by Mugford).

Of course, if you want a pinch collar, you get it. Selling is allowed, using forbitten. Only trained persons have the concession to work with is. But even our local hunter (here in Europe you need for hunting a special education), told me, that he needed the collar only twice, because if you know how to use it, it's not even worth to buy it. I think, thats ok. But EVERYBODY, most of them without experience and understanding, use them mindless, because the dog has to function properly, no mistakes allowed and not in a few weeks, but right now!!

Everybody means the dogowners I meet every day, not the police dogs or hunting dogs, e.g. But even the police are more and more refusing these collars!

As the saying goes in Germany: "When knowledge ends, violence begins!"

All these things are for specialists, not for the "average consumer".

I hope you understand what I mean, it's still difficult for me to cover such a topic in English.

[Katzyn]

I don't know much about prong collars, personally...But I do know that they hurt like a ***** when your fingers get caught between them and the wriggly dog you're trying to restrain for a blood draw at the vet clinic. ;_; I've come to hate the things, because I can only imagine the poor dog's pain when those things dig into it's neck. *shivers*

[splash]

No opinion on collar type. But I can say I have become completely astounded by using the same methods as zoos and aquariums as outlined by marine/ animal trainer Ken Ramirez. Basically I use no form of positive punishment, or negative reinforcement. So basically I only add good things and take away the good things. Check out my youtube channel, to see what my 10 month old puppy can already do, its quite frightening.
http://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup

I am basically sold on the clicker training method, Ill never go back to using +punishment! not even using the words 'no' or 'eh eh' to train.

As for loose leash walking there is this awesome book called MY DOG PULLS. WHAT DO I DO? by Turid Rugaas Its short and has lots of pictures.

[lurcherloopy]

Originally Posted by Jr. Dog Expert

Yeah Prong Collar aren't allowed in the UK, along with Pitbulls, makes me mad, but w/e.

Are they? Can you give me a link to that law please?

Originally Posted by K9 Conversation

A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:
100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.
The numbers seem to speak for themselves.

Sorry I to have heard this studied bandied about but would really like to see it in its entirety - can you provide a link or some more information about who undertook the study and why so I can try and find it myself as Ive had no luck so far. thanks

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by lurcherloopy

Are they? Can you give me a link to that law please?



Sorry I to have heard this studied bandied about but would really like to see it in its entirety - can you provide a link or some more information about who undertook the study and why so I can try and find it myself as Ive had no luck so far. thanks

I don't know if the study is accurate but common sense tells me that when you jerk hard on a very narrow collar versus a wider collar (whatever you use) there can be more damage from a narrow collar. The comparison is your hand being stepped on with standard shoe or a woman's high heels. One actually could put a hole in hand. Then there are many people that put a choke on wrong way and it does not release properly. Now there are some wider choke collars but I still do not like the choking attitude.