Your Opinions on Prong/Pinch Collars

Cheetah · 03-09-2008, 10:35 PM

It's ok if it's used right. It will also work for some dogs and not others. In Eevee's case, it didn't work, and so now it's been sitting in a drawer for years lol...

Billiie · 03-09-2008, 11:06 PM

Yes, if used properly and correctly, it is great. I used to use one on Owen when he was a puller, and it was amazing. Now, I hardly use it at all.. unless we are going somewhere where I know he is going to pull. It was a great training tool, but it should only be that, a training tool. You have to wean your dog off it to walk properly without it, some people just don't understand that.

Aussiefan · 03-10-2008, 01:14 AM

I have no issues with chain collars like the prong collar as long as they are used correctly. The chain collar does require much more of a technique but is quite effective for the right dog, and experienced handler. I have trained all my dogs throughout the years on chain collars, worked excellent for me and them. It all depends on the dog and person IMO.

5dogmom · 03-10-2008, 01:21 AM

I beleive that all dogs learn different. Some learn with the choke collar and some with the pronk collar. Some learn with food and some learn with constant praise. Some just learn on instinct alone. It's your call to learn what your dog will learn and how he will get the greatest benefit.

mom2kdg · 03-10-2008, 10:42 PM

I have to admit that without a prong collar Rambo would not be walked. I'm not a big or strong girl by any means and the first few times that I tried to walk him he hurt my shoulders to the point that I had to stop exercising to let my shoulder muscles heal. On the flip side he needs to go for walks. Not to mention that we live on a fairly busy street and most of my neighbors walk their dogs at the same time so there is many distractions. I would not be safe (pulled into the street) without it. I am going to try and phase it out over the next few months but for now I can't imagine not having it. He's fairly submissive so it's only used for walks.

K9 Conversation · 03-11-2008, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvamutt

Have you ever actually seen the raw results of this study? I buy the numbers because I've seen both prongs and chokes used and I've heard this study quoted many times but I've never actually seen the study, seen and abstract, or seen anything that proves it actually exists. If you know where I could fing this info could you point me in the right direction?

I have and I will see if I can find it for you.

wvasko · 03-11-2008, 12:05 PM

As I have posted in other threads,
At least 95% of dogs I train are trained with a prong/martingale combo, I use this because the correction is easier on dog with a combo collar setup. Both collars have same type of closure. If I have a tougher dog I use prong only. I do use Herm-Sprenger name brand, a much better made prong. I do not like choke collars so I do not use them. This is not meant to be a recommendation of prongs just a statement of fact, of my particular collar preferences. There also is a pet supply in my area that sells something called a mini-pinch for toy breeds.

Jr. Dog Expert · 03-11-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K9 Conversation

I have and I will see if I can find it for you.

Yeah please if you find information about this post it, I'm really intruiged.

As for the rest of the post, seems like mostly there is a positive opinion on it, of course as long as it is used correctly. Very nice thank you very much for your guys posts, especially those of you who posted personal expiriences, those are extremely helpful.

But if there is anyone that would like to add, please do!

Ginny01OT · 03-11-2008, 06:56 PM

A prong collar is really no different than an e-collar. It is a training tool--if the person using the tool is properly educated on how to use it and follows thru with it, it can be effective. I don't look it either as a permanent solution just a means to an end

sillylilykitty · 03-11-2008, 07:43 PM

I went to Petsmart today and looked at the prong collars. I put one back together because it was undone and I wanted to see how it worked. It was hard! I didnt realize it was that hard. If I ever used one of those I would want the rubber caps on the ends. Actually I'm not sure if I could get myself to use it, I'm just going to say I hope I never get into the situation where I have to even think about it.

blackrose · 03-11-2008, 08:42 PM

A training tool, such as a prong collar, is only a means to an end. If used properly and used on the right dog, it is wonderful. If used improperly and used on a dog that balks at any form of correction, it is horrible.

I have a prong collar for Chloe. I don't use it for basic training (don't need it), but I do use it when I walk her and when we go into town. Chloe responds very well to a mixture of physical and verbal correction and rewards, she has a very sensitive neck and the slightest pressure will cause her to gag, and she pulls on leash when very excited. The prong collar allows me to control her effectively and give her the corrections she needs at times.
She doesn't hate her collar in the slightest; she actually loves to see me grab it because that means we're heading out!
On the other hand, Rose would balk if I used a prong on her and she'd most likely shut down. Blackie could care less either way, but in all honesty he responds well to slip collar corrections.

When I first brought the collar home, everyone thought I was so cruel and how could I put that on her? So my brother volunteered to put the collar on his neck and have me give him a "correction". So I did. Guess what he said. "Get it off, it tickles!" LOL I've tried the collar on my wrist and my leg and it doesn't hurt. It is uncomfortable, but it doesn't even make me say, "Ouch."

My friend recentally aquired a 2 1/2 year old Pit Bull that pulled like no other. On top of that, she was dog reactive out in public and would posture and pull like the ****ens toward other dogs. I reccomended a prong collar. Britt, my friend, thought that prong collars looked like torture devices and she didn't want to use one on Sasha. I said, "Here, just let me show you how it works and you can decide for yourself."
I fit one one Sasha properly, clipped the leash on, and away we went. We walked up and down two isle, one with a dog in it, and after a few mild corrections and some treats Sasha was heeling perfectally. The rest of the time we were in the store Sasha stayed by my side and didn't pull. Britt ended up getting the prong collar.

But I'll say it again. A prong collar is a TOOL, just like a Gentle Leader, a no pull harness, a slip collar, a shock collar, a clicker, treats, etc. It does not replace TRAINING, it just aids you in it. One particular tool, or one particular training technique, is not right for every dog. You must find what works for your dog and go from there.

Jr. Dog Expert · 03-11-2008, 09:39 PM

Wonderful post blackrose! Well said. I loved it!

Love's_Sophie · 03-11-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

It's a tool. You use it to complete the job, and then you put it away. This means actual training must occur, in addition to the aversion. Efficiency and the humane use of the tool go hand in hand. Without testing for efficiency, the constant use of aversion can and should be viewed as the borders of inhumane. Testing for efficiency is simple but no one does it, one week from the next, count your ratio of rewards to corrections. If that number does not go up over time, guess what? Your training isn't working, and it could be that the aversion from the collar is exacerbating the problem.

Alternatives really depend on the dog. Frankly, I'd rather spend my time searching for what motivates the dog, and once that's known, all other training becomes routine.

Well stated...it's a tool...not a permanant solution

Jr. Dog Expert · 09-16-2008, 01:00 PM

Thought I'd bump this thread to see if there are any novel comments about them

melgrj7 · 09-16-2008, 04:26 PM

When they are needed they are a great tool. I used one on Lloyd when we first got him. He was 8 months, 70 pounds and had no training at all, and he was not at all motivated by much of anything (I have since fixed that, building his drives . . . now he does anything for a ball) and couldn't care less about me. I tried for a month to teach him to walk nice with positive only methods, but he wasn't (and still isn't) very treat oriented, and again he didn't have much motivation for toys or anything then (I don't think he knew what they were for, he sure does now!). I then tried a gentle leader, he didn't like it and I didn't like it. So we got a prong, it worked to get his attention and got him walking nicely while I worked on building his drives and bond with me. Without it I wouldn't have been able to walk him for very long, and he would have been going nuts, which would not have been very helpful. Now I can walk him with a flat collar on, I use a starmark when training sometimes, but its not needed for walks.

With Allie I have been using a plastic version of a prong collar: Starmark Collar.

blunder · 09-16-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I would argue that no tool is efficient until proven so. I would also argue that all tools are inherently dangerous if misused. I would not even attempt to compare the tools because I don't know which dog we're talking about or who's using it...that IS the difference.

Good post!

The irony is that over the years I suppose I have seen the normal flat buckle collar used abusively 10 to 1 over all other collar types combined.
All collars do exactly the same thing when training, they just do it in a different way. When not training any collar is nothing but jewelry

TooneyDogs · 09-16-2008, 05:30 PM

There was a recent article that extolled the virtues of the electronic collar with it's ability to detect the lowest amount of stimulation...ie: the lowest setting where you notice a blink or an ear twitch....the dog felt it. That's the setting that is used for training. The other tools are not able to discriminate that finely and are too often used with ham fisted force.

Lonewolfblue · 09-16-2008, 10:07 PM

Hi Jr. Dog Expert....

I just want to give you my view on the Prong Collar. Like said above, they are a tool. You put it on, train, take it off. Not something to be left on all the time. Also, it needs to be properly fitted, and the handler needs to know the proper way to use the prong. I love using the prong for training purposes, only because 2 of my dogs tend to pull on lead. As for my Chloe, we train with the regular nylon collar, as she only pulls a little at first, then doesn't pull at all. It is great for teaching a dog how to heel next to you. And for things like Rally training, it is a wonderful training tool to get your dog in sync with you, and once your dog starts doing well, you can slowly phase the prong collar out.

Now the negative side of the Prong, IMO, should not be used on very reactive dogs. I learned the hard way with Betty, and stopped using it after a couple days. What it did, it actually increased her reactivity a lot. I've tried using it again a couple months ago, just to see of I can work with it again on Betty, and no, I turned around and walked back home and got her regular collar to work with her. I tried correcting her, and it only triggered full-blown lunging.

But anyways, it is a great training tool. I really like using it to get my dogs started on new things. Then, once they start getting it down, I then move to just using the nylon collar. And the reason I like phasing it out is, you cannot use the prong collar in Obedience or Rally competitions, so it does need to be phased out. And for beginning new behaviors like heel, it's an excellent tool.

spottydog · 09-16-2008, 10:21 PM

I've found it an effective training tool with the 2 dogs I've had so far, but agree with the rest that it has to be put away once it's done its job. Because it looks harsh, I sometimes wondered if I was training my dogs the right way, but I have to say I never really thought about other possibilities because that's how my family has always trained their dogs. Thanks for posting this!

rosemaryninja · 09-17-2008, 01:38 AM

As with any tool, it can be effective when used right, and it should only be used by people who know how to use it right.

Here in Singapore, prong collars aren't banned...but you can only procure them from certified behaviourists, and only after discussing with them the severity of the problem, and the training methods you have and haven't tried. I think it should be like this everywhere else, too.