aggressive rat terrier

angie03 · 06-05-2006, 05:12 PM

I have an 8 month old male rat terrier that we rescued at 4 months. We also have two other male dogs, a two year old chi mix and a 12 year old standard poodle. until now the poodle has been the alpha but the terrier is now trying to take over. Will they work this out or have I made a huge mistake. all the aggression is makingf them all a little nasty. anybody have any ideas

ThxForNothing · 06-05-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angie03

I have an 8 month old male rat terrier that we rescued at 4 months. We also have two other male dogs, a two year old chi mix and a 12 year old standard poodle. until now the poodle has been the alpha but the terrier is now trying to take over. Will they work this out or have I made a huge mistake. all the aggression is makingf them all a little nasty. anybody have any ideas

Is the Rat Terrier fixed yet? If not, I suggest doing so. Are your other pets fixed? If not, again, I suggest doing so. They may work it out on their own, but then again they might also need a little help.

Hmm. Well, what I would do is make sure that the rat terrier knows that his place is below the rest of the dogs. Feed him last. Pet him last.

Honestly i'm a little uncomfortable trying to help people who have aggression issues over the internet, as I cannot actually see the dogs and how they are acting twords each other. So, if you could provide any more details i'd appericiate it..

Sorry I couldn't help you any more than that. If you do feel that their behavior is getting way out of hand, you could always contact a behaviorist so that they can come in and explain things to you and help the doggies more.

Good luck.

Curbside Prophet · 06-05-2006, 05:30 PM

ThxForNothing is absolutely right. If the introduction of the new dog doesn’t go smoothly, contact a professional animal behaviorist immediately. Dogs can be severely injured in fights, and the longer the problem continues, the harder it can be to resolve. Conflicts between dogs in the same family can often be resolved with professional help. Finally, do not resort to punishment, it could make things worse.

ThxForNothing · 06-05-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Finally, do not resort to punishment, it could make things worse.

Omg, how on earth did I forget to mention that?! Phew. Glad you're around curbside.. lol.

My dogs will maul each other if there is even a hint of aggression from either us or them. They also go after each other if one of them yelps.. soo BE CAREFUL. I'd say keep them completely seperated for now unless you are supervising them. If they start to play. don't let it get too rough.

Then again.... that can make the problem bad too.. arg. Aggression can be so tricky..

angie03 · 06-05-2006, 06:20 PM

a little more info. There has been no blood, lots of teeth and noise. the rat terrier chases the other two away from the food, takes all the toys and will fight them for humane attention. All treats and food are given in order of age they are all made to sit first. The chi mix is agressive towards the rattie out of fear he is the lover. The poodle refuses to fight he just makes a lot of noise. If we try to stop the rattie from doing whatever he is doing he will act out towards us . We know at the end of this we all have to come out on top but what is the best way to do that.

ThxForNothing · 06-05-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angie03

a little more info. There has been no blood, lots of teeth and noise. the rat terrier chases the other two away from the food, takes all the toys and will fight them for humane attention. All treats and food are given in order of age they are all made to sit first. The chi mix is agressive towards the rattie out of fear he is the lover. The poodle refuses to fight he just makes a lot of noise. If we try to stop the rattie from doing whatever he is doing he will act out towards us . We know at the end of this we all have to come out on top but what is the best way to do that.

Alright, as I said before.. I strongly suggest you contact a behaviorist. However, I will do my best to help you. Keep in mind I cannot see the dogs so I may be wrong. The advice I am giving you is just how I would handle these situations.

If your rat terrier is chasing the others from their food, then grab his little butt, and hold him there while the others eat. After, and only after they have finnished, offer him his food. Make sure the other dogs don't bother him. He might just be thinking (for whatever reason) that they are going to steal his food, or not leave him any. I don't know his history, so there could be a number of reasons as to why he does this.

If he is taking the toys, take them from him. Do not allow him to bully the other dogs, as it is not his home (well, it is, but he's the newb..ya know?) Those toys belong to your other dogs. Have you bought him his own crate, and his own toys yet? Maybe if he had an area where he knew everything was his, he wouldn't always feel the need to take the other stuff away from everyone else.

What kind of "aggressive" is the chi mix to him? Snapping? Growling? Just a tensed up body?

The poodle, it seems, is just barking and making noise because everyone else is acting up.. could be wrong though, like I said before, I cannot see them... x.x

What does the rattie do when you try and stop him? How does he act out? Does he snap? Still need more info if you don't mind.

Man, I really wish you could record the behavior and show me some how.... that would help alot!

From what you said though, honestly, you should really contact a behaviorist if you are dead set on having this pack settle down. I am a bit uncomfortable helping you, because I don't want to make the problem worse. Every dog handles everything differently...

edit:
I have my own way of dealing with a dog who is showing aggression twords me directly. While I hate to be physical with dogs, if a dog is testing me, i'll put him in his place real quick by making him submit to me by rolling on his back. Then i'll just stare them down and deeeeply growl "NO". I will not stop staring the dog down until he looks away, once he does, I get up and all is well.. just like nothing happened. -- This can be a dangerous thing to do though if you are not experienced, as some dogs might not handle it how they are suppose to and may end up biting your face off.. O.o eeep. Wouldn't want that to happen!

bigdawgs · 06-05-2006, 07:54 PM

How experienced are you in having multiple dogs? I am asking because the first time I ever heard dogs at noisy play, I was scared out of my wits, thinking it was a fight, when in reality it was play. There was a lot of nipping and growling, but I did not recognize the difference between play growling and true aggression. I am NOT trying to minimize your problem, and the advice Thxfor nothing gave is absolutely on the mark, I was just curious.

opokki · 06-05-2006, 09:49 PM

I agree with seeking the advice of a behaviorist.

In the meantime, I think it might be a good idea to purchase a waist tether and keep the terrier tethered to you so you have more control. If he continues to redirect on you, I would desensitize him to a muzzle. In addition, I recommend that each dog be fed separately in their own space and toys shouldn't be left around to be fought over.

If you are interested, Patricia McConnell, who is an Applied Animal Behaviorist, has a great booklet and DVD called "Feeling Outnumbered?" which I think you would find helpful.

Curbside Prophet · 06-05-2006, 11:24 PM

Although I have not read Dr. McConnell's book, "Feeling Outnumbered," I do suspect it would be a valuable resource as I am currently reading "The Other End of the Leash" by Dr. McConnell. I think those who posted before me have given some quality thought to your dilemma. Had you dogs just met, I think the approach ThxForNothing mentioned would be my approach. However, since it is best to consult a professional, I think in the meantime you should be doing as opokki suggested...at least until another pair of eyes can see what really is going on. Because it may in fact be as bigdawgs noted. The three of you all have done so well at helping angie03, what more could I add? I do have one thought to offer... Assuming the dogs are getting their requisite exercise and discipline, it is normal for new dogs, and even dog's that have lived together for years, to exhibit jealous/aggressive behavior. This is the pack heirachy at work, and any time one dog feels that there is a possibility to move up in rank, a scuffle can occur. Your responsibility, the reason why you asked the question, is to understand what YOU are communicating to your dogs, so as not to create tension and jealousy between your dogs. (Opinion) It's not always best to prefer one dog over another because of age, sex, or personal preferences. You mentioned you fed by age...where the new guy may actually be the "alpha", and you could be unknowingly disturbing the heirarchy. But all I see is a computer screen, so there isn't any way I could definitively make that claim. However, if it were a heirarchy game that your dogs play, I do have suggestions. 1) Separate their toys and sleeping areas. 2) Treat your dogs like dogs...reinforce your leadership. 3) And most importantly, sort out which dog is most likely "alpha"...this is were a professional's eyes are better than your's alone or our's at this computer screen. Because as unfair as it may seem, the "alpha's" position in the pack order must be reinforced regardless of age, sex, or personal preference. The last thing you or I want to do is prapogate confusing signals that inadvertebtly create competition. So please pay the few hundred dollars it will take to sort this out by confiring with someone who is endorsed and certified by the Animal Behavior Society (ABS)...either a certified Applied Animal Behaviorist (AB) or a veterinary who is a diplomat of the American College of Veterinary Behavior. This is your responsibility afterall. Good luck!

ThxForNothing · 06-06-2006, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

So please pay the few hundred dollars it will take

Geez. A few hundred dollars? I would never charge someone that much if that were my perfession. That's insanity! Lol. ..I've always wanted to be a dog behaviorist.... maybe one day.

heh.

angie03 · 06-06-2006, 01:06 PM

even more info... All dogs are altered. The rattie is more aggressive when on a lead. He has been to 12 weeks of training classes and I work with him all the time. he will down on command and stay. the problem with the food is the two older dogs are graisers as they never had a problem with weight or aggression I have tried to get them on a feeding schedule but the oldest dog who is 12 will not eat if the food isn't left down. The chi is a nibbler he takes a few pieces of food at a time and goes to another room to eat them. He throws them around and makes a game of it. They have their own bowls and the rattie tries to guard them all. I have tried putting him on a lead so he can only get to his bowl at feeding time but then he just barks and tries to get at the other dogs who he can not see. but he knows they have food. I have even tried taking all food up after 15 minutes and only putting it down twice a day the big dog wont eat. The rattie does have a creat and his own toys and bones but they still play with each others toys and the chi mix who isn't small like a chi. more like an whippit. will get in the ratties creat and sleep. They do play and I can tell when the play changes to aggression all the noise they make doesn't scare me I work at a shelter and see dogs at play all the time. I just want them to get along. but the rattie doesn't know when to stop. I know he is still young and he is trying to find his place. The other two dogs walk away from the food when he chalanges them the chi hids when he has had enough and the standard poodle bares his teeth and growles real low but doesn't try to bite him. The rattie chases the poodle around and growles and yelps and whines it is real strange. He gets very upset and goes nuts when the poodle growls at him. i'm not a dog so I am having a real hard time understanding it all. I know getting a third male dog wasn't the best idea but we had fostered him for a couple weeks and it was fine because he was sick and didn't have much energy but he got well after we adopted him and everthing changed. I will see if the trainer at the shelter where I work will make a home visit and can tell me what is up.
thanks to everyone

ThxForNothing · 06-06-2006, 01:36 PM

The oldest will (most likely) eventually learn to eat on a scheduel if you keep it going. I think that you are giving in to early. How long did you try and keep that going? Once he learns that the food will only remain on the floor for a period of time, he will want to eat it when he can. That's just basic instinct I would think. Eat now, or miss out.. ya know?

I'm glad to hear that you are going to talk to a trainer, hopefully he/she can help you with your situation. Good luck, keep us updated.

bigdawgs · 06-06-2006, 05:42 PM

Curbside made a good point. you have to see who the dogs are making alpha, it is not something you can arbitrarily impose. With my pack, I had a couple of pretty scarey scuffles whilst they were sorting it all out. I do not have dogs that have any real aggressive tendencies, but it sure doesn't sound that way when they are settling an issue. Perhaps mine are odd, at first they seemd all fine, for the first few days. After that was when they started defining the pecking order and it became patently clear what the order was. Now that it is well established, we have harmony most of the time. Occassionally, one of the lower dogs issue a challenge, but Chloe does not tolerate it. She will make a showing of teeth and growling; just enough to let the other dog know whats what.
My sons dog we are fostering is a bout a year old, and has started frequently challenging Chloe. Chloe has repeatedly warned Rogue to stop. We have reinforced this warning, but I hope I am home to stop bloodshed if Rogue pushes her too far. It is always a potential issue when dealing with multiple dogs, and something you need to be aware of.