[naturegeek]

Elana55's reply in another thread piqued my interest...

One reason i would like to have a dog is to hike around in the woods together-but as my name says, I'm a nature geek and I'm usually out looking for wildlife. I'd like to be able to train a dog to be alert to wildlife but to also know not to startle or chase it.

Our rural property likely has deer, coyote, bear, and possibly cougar. It definately has grouse, other birds, and rattlesnakes (eek!).

Any suggestions as to training methods or resources? Or breeds for that matter? (i'm currently thinking lab, gsd, maybe rottie)

[Elana55]

Atka is naturally alert to wildlife but I have never allowed her to chase etc. therefore she doesn't know she CAN.

What I have put on her is a reliable "LIE DOWN" which I have done for sheep herding. I have also taught her to LIE DOWN facing the point of interest (to lie down and face me when she needs to watch the sheep won't work). We come across deer when out hiking and I can tell her to "lie DOWN" and she does, regardless of what the deer do. At 14 months old I think that is really pretty good for her.. and I had her doing this at 9 months old. Unteaching her to face me when asked to lie down was challenging and I will never teach a dog to always lie down facing me again. I want the dog to drop like a sack of rocks facing the direction of travel... and Atka literally THROWS herself down I tell her to lie down she is so eager to do this command.

When we are out in the woods she is like having radar along and I watch her and she shows me anything I might have missed (I rode almost exclusively mares for a variety of reasons and they never miss a trick either! They are the ones who alert the horse herd to danger and lead the herd away from it).

My last dog was taught "enough" when I wanted her to come off cattle when she was working and that word also worked out hiking in the woods. She learned to chase (herd) on my command and to come off on my command so she never chased without a command (if that makes sense).

The newest thing I have been teaching Atka is "Check! Wait!" which means look at me and wait right where you are and I will walk up to you (with a treat). I am also teaching her "Check! Back!" which means stop, look at me and come back to me (and I have a treat for her).

'Wait,' unlike 'stay' means just that.. WAIT.. right where you are and however you are.. and pay attention because I am going to ask for something (come here, lie down etc.) OR I am going to walk up to you with a treat.

I am also working Atka on Whistle commands which are SWEET. The trick is to use the exact same whistle for the exact same thing every time you want that behavior. I used whistles on my last dog working cattle because there was no emotion in the whistle like there could be in my voice. Whistles also do not have the same startling effect on wildlife as voice commands do.

[RonE]

It would be difficult, but not impossible, to train a sporting dog NOT to chase wildlife. Obviously, pointers and retrievers (e.g. lab) have to learn restraint to do their jobs.

It would be a whole lot more difficult to train a hound. Esther has good recall but I know full-well that, if she sees a deer, she's gone. If she sees a rabbit, it's likely the rabbit is gone, too. So we restrict our off-lead hikes to the beach.

Whistle training is an EXCELLENT idea as are hand-signals.

[FriendsOfZoe]

I'd definitely say pointer or setter...they can help you spot wildlife and when trained properly, they will hold the point and alert you...
Now obviously, you aren't hunting so they won't be able to retrieve the game...this is when it's a good idea to have a favorite toy and do a quick fetch for the retrieve after they've successfully pointed.
For that matter, at least until your dog is extremely well trained, I would keep him on a leash anyway...you can get a hands free leash that will allow you to keep your hands free and have security that your dog won't run away.

I would also recommend sporting dogs because they are generally bred to be quieter...they can't scare the game away, so they are supposed to be quiet...my golden hardly ever barks...of course, many sporting dogs DO bark a lot and that quietness has not been an especially important trait to keep breeding, but still...hound dogs and terriers, I have found, just make so much noise that they would scare away any wildlife.

I would look for a dog of more fieldy than show lines...most English setters in rescue are of field lines (because owners can't handle their energy and drive), I know, and I'm not sure about other breeds but it may well be the same. Also, field breeders will often start a dog on instinct training. Someone who breeds and trains working gun dogs would be a great resource to answer your questions.

[Dogstar]

I would actually recommend a breed with LOW to moderate prey drive and high interest in people- possibly something like a Keeshond; Newf or Leonburger if you want a large dog. No hounds, no northern breeds, and if you DO want a sporting breed, for god's sake, get one from show lines, not trial lines.

ANY dog will alert you to wildlife, in my experience. A dog without preydrive wll be MUCH easier to teach not to chase.

Rather than look for a breed, why not hit your local shelter and look for a two or three year old with the right personality - interested in people, quick learner- and very physically sound?

[Inga]

Several of my old dogs went hiking with me in the woods and we came upon deer, fox, lots of birds etc... They also were not allowed to chase so they didn't. Teaching recall and down stay, moving down also is a must. My 2 boys now have not yet been tested. I hope to do more of that type of thing again once it warms up. Now, I am working downs and recall. I wouldn't trust the puppy yet, but I believe the 2 year old is up for the task. Problem with Rotties is they do not fair real well in the hot weather so keep that in mind when choosing a breed. What type of climate you are in will make a difference.

[doggone6]

When we adopted our Jack, we were told that he was picked up as a stray...and that they'd been trying to get him for weeks. They also remarked that he would need "a lot" of training (the understatement of the century, for which I was fortunately qualified and prepared).

Apparently, he was killing his own meals as he's taken down three rats (we live in a huge city), a rabbit and 2 ground squirrels (at my dad's suburban property) since we brought him home in June 2007. He had absolutely NO training prior to our getting him, but is smart and eager to please and has picked up his basic obedience and manners well.

However...put a critter within his sight and fugeddaboudit! He has a very high prey drive and since it was obviously rewarded in the past there is NO letting him offlead...ever. The DH did this ONCE (again at my Dad's) and had the pleasure of chasing Captain Jack through the woods and nearly into the next town when he sighted a doe in a nearby field. I shook my head and took the puppy for a nice, orderly walk.

Try to determine the prey drive before considering hiking with your dog. It may not only save a lot of little critters their lives, but your sanity (and perhaps heart!) as well, lol!

[naturegeek]

Wow, thanks for the input! I appreciate the details everyone included...it is really helping me focus my research...seems like I need to learn more about training herding dogs for sure.

I am hoping to get an adult rescue dog, so my breed question was more to get a jist of what breeds i might keep an eye out for in rescue/shelters. thanks for reminding me that personality is also a big piece of the puzzle.

Hounds & terriers are def. off the list!

Inga, how hot is too hot? The land we have in Eastern WA can get into the 90's in the summer, maybe hit 100 once or twice a year.