[shahidhaque]

We need some advice and assistance on an urgent behavioral issue with our dog Wrigley. He is an approx. 1 year old an Australian Cattle Dog (a "Red Heeler"). Despite our best efforts, his behavior is getting worse and worse, and we need an expert opinion on what to do.

Initial Behavior

A few months ago my wife and I adopted Wrigley from the pound. At the time we adopted him, he was the only dog in the room who was not barking and going nuts -- he impressed us by sitting calmly despite all the chaos. We learned that he had come into the pound with an injury from when his previous owner had tried to castrate him with a rubberband. It seems that either his previous owner dumped him off somewhere or he escaped, and he wound up in the pound with an infection from the botched castration. They treated him and a few weeks later he was available for adoption.

We were aware of the fact that Red Heelers are very high strung, and that didn't bother us. We exercise quite a bit and we don't mind hyper dogs. We liked his personality, so we took him home.

He was great the first week or so that we had him. He is an extrememly smart dog and can learn tricks very quickly. We took him out to a street festival where people were everywhere, and he didn't show the slightest aggression. A little girl even pounced on him unexpectedly, and he didn't react aggressively at all. (Of course, he was only recently off the pain medication from his injury so in retrospect he was likely subdued from those drugs.)

Increasing Anxiety and Aggression

In the next few weeks, as he got more comfortable with his surroundings, his behavior started to change. He became much more suspicious of people on the street and started raising his rough at pretty much anyone who walked by (even if they were across the street). He started becoming more afraid of other dogs, and if they barked at him, he would freak out and bark uncontrollably. If anyone entered the house, even if he was in his crate, he would bark uncontrollably and aggressively. We tried to teach him not to do these things by correcting him, telling him "No" and if it was excessive, we would spray him with Bitter Apple spray.

He would pull on his leash all the time, so we started using a prong collar the second week we had him. He initially took it very well and allowed us to put it on him and take it off without any problem. We used it for weeks without any issues. However, when my in-laws were in town a few weeks ago, walked Wrigley and he bit my mother-in-law when she tried to take the prong collar off. We attributed this to the fact that he was relatively unfamiliar with her and was simply frightened.

He started doing some strange things in the house that seem to be based out of anxiety. He started deliberately drawing his paws close to his face, then quickly pulling them away and trying to bite them. As he continued this, he would get more and more worked up and then he would eventually starting yelping and barking at his own paws! We thought it could possibly be a game so we just let him do it.

We have been taking him to weekly dog obedience classes to get him more socialized with other dogs, and while he is very intelligent and can do his tricks, he cannot calm down during the classes. We are now five weeks into the class and he still pants nervously the whole time. Although none of the dogs in the class are aggressive towards him, he is constantly looking over his shoulder and watching his back. He has bitten both of the instructors when they got close to him to check on his leash/collar.

At class last night, he bit me for the first time. He was looking at other dogs when he should have been paying attention, so I moved his face towards me and said "pay attention." He moved back, so I did it again, and he bit me. It did not break skin, but it was a full bite.

Things Come to a Head

This morning we had a horrible incident with Wrigley. For seemingly no reason, he started barking excessively at a dog that he usually ignores. When my wife leaned down to correct him, he bit her. When we went home and it came time to remove his prong collar, I was prepared for the fact that he may try to bite me, so I wore heavy gloves. When I tried to remove his prong collar, he went crazy and started biting me on my hand over and over again. Even though I was wearing gloves, he bruised one of my hands and he broke the skin on my other hand. Both hands really hurt -- these were real bites and he meant to bite as hard as he could. If I was not wearing gloves I think my hand would have been significantly injured. I had to hold him down with my whole body until my wife could get a muzzle.

(Afterwards, he lay on the floor with his muzzle on and whined in a loud and frantic way that I had not even heard before. Perhaps he was being extremely apologetic for what he did.)

Obviously, this is completely unacceptable. If he will bite his owners, he will clearly bite anyone. I love him and I do not want to get rid of him if there is anything I can do to help him get over his severe anxiety. (No one would take him, so he would probably be put down.)

When he is at home, he is often very sweet and loving, and he comes to us constantly for cuddling and affection. But his behavior outside of the house and his recent aggression towards us is something we cannot deal with.

Advice and Suggestions

I would like your advice on what to do with Wrigley. Our dog trainer has suggested that we consider whether Wrigley would be a good candidate for some anxiety relieving drugs. Although drugs are not the solution to everything, Wrigley seems to be a dog that could truly benefit from these drugs. Since we can't keep him if he is constantly biting us, it may be life or death for our dog.

I don't think the solution to our problem is just "more exercise." Not enough exercise is an excuse for crazy hyper behavior, but not aggression, and certainly not aggression towards his owners. Besides, we give him a lot of exercise. Here is his daily routine:

Every day, we walk Wrigley about 2.5 miles (once in the morning and once in the evening). On weekends we go snow shoeing and hiking for miles, and he gets enough excersize to wear him out. During the day he stays in his crate, and he sleeps in his crate in our bedroom at night. He doesn't mind his crate at all -- in fact he kennels himself up voluntarily every morning when we leave for work. I don't think the crate is an issue.

Please post any advice you can give!

Thanks,

Shahid

[terryjeanne]

Poor Wrigley. I'm certainly no expert on dogs--in fact I have a reactive sheltie that I've taken to an animal behaviourist. She had some good insight as to why my dog does certain things.
Or I've heard of vetrinary behaviourists---I believe they can prescribe medication if necessary.

I don't know the website for animal behaviourist--hopefully someone else can post it

Keep us updated. Seems like Wrigley had a horrible start in life and perhaps needs to start all over. I bet there's a great dog in there somewhere--he just needs the right help.

[TooneyDogs]

Sadly, I suspect he was either unsocialized early on or poorly socialized. That's the overall main issue and even though you're doing what you can now, he's missed the critical learning periods. You can make things better even at this stage.
But, let's get to the biting...the immediate issue. I suspect he's got allergies....biting his feet (possible itching) and overall anxiety...his entire body would feel like the skin is crawling/itching and makes him anxious/nervous and very reactive to everything. You need to talk to the vet and get a complete exam. Have the vet check for food allergies first and the possibility of anti-anxiety medications.
It sounds like you're a little heavy handed with the training (muzzle, prong collar, squirt bottle, heavy gloves, shouted commands like NO).
Did your instructors ever discuss with you some exercises for building trust and confidence? Did they show you other, less invasive ways to walk on loose leash, how to get your dogs attention without touching or talking to your dog or, how to stop the barking without a spray bottle?
I think the vet visit and a small change in the training approach to one of mutual cooperation, building trust and confidence instead of sheer compliance will go a long way toward resolving the biting problem.
The overall problem of missed or poor socialization, which may also play a part in the biting, will take longer to overcome. The whole idea of socialization is to find out what fears your dog has...sounds, sights, kids, cats, sudden movements, sunglasses, wheelchairs...what can trigger an inappropriate response and then working on fixing those problem areas.
At this stage, you need to go at his pace and not overwhelm him with something that he can't handle...building trust and confidence through a slow, careful introduction of mildly stressful situations.

[Curbside Prophet]

You need to do away with the corrections, including the prong collar. No these aren't behaviors we should accept, but your corrections could in fact exacerbate the problems, and you'll need to be respectful of classical conditioning before asking for operant behaviors. You acknowledge he has anxiety issues, and you've identified body language that shows he's over threshold. I would get him out of the obedience class, and into a difficult dogs class.

How many people has he sent to the hospital? Has he broken skin? Where does he bite? Has he had his thyroid checked by a vet?

http://www.iaabc.org/consultant_locator_dogs.htm

[shahidhaque]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

You need to do away with the corrections, including the prong collar. No these aren't behaviors we should accept, but your corrections could in fact exacerbate the problems, and you'll need to be respectful of classical conditioning before asking for operant behaviors. You acknowledge he has anxiety issues, and you've identified body language that shows he's over threshold. I would get him out of the obedience class, and into a difficult dogs class.

How many people has he sent to the hospital? Has he broken skin? Where does he bite? Has he had his thyroid checked by a vet?

http://www.iaabc.org/consultant_locator_dogs.htm

Thanks for your reply. He was not sent anyone to the hospital yet. However, he has broken skin on two bites -- he bit my mother in law and he also bit me this morning. The other bites did not break skin but I was told that they hurt quite badly.

As far as I know his thyroid has not been checked. Can this cause aggression? I am taking him to the vet tomorrow and will ask them to check.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by shahidhaque

Thanks for your reply. He was not sent anyone to the hospital yet. However, he has broken skin on two bites -- he bit my mother in law and he also bit me this morning. The other bites did not break skin but I was told that they hurt quite badly.

The reason these questions were asked is to demonstrate what level of bite inhibition the dog has. Obviously if he wanted to do more harm, he could have, and the fact that he doesn't always break skin is an indication that he does have some bite inhibition and he may be more defensive than offensive.

As far as I know his thyroid has not been checked. Can this cause aggression? I am taking him to the vet tomorrow and will ask them to check.

Yes it can cause aggression, and in some forms of hypothyroidism, aggression may be the only indicator that something is wrong, and as you seemed to hint at, there may be no definable context in which the aggression happens. So yes, it could be his thyroid, and it makes sense to have it checked as part of a complete physical.

[shahidhaque]

Originally Posted by TooneyDogs

Sadly, I suspect he was either unsocialized early on or poorly socialized. That's the overall main issue and even though you're doing what you can now, he's missed the critical learning periods. You can make things better even at this stage.
But, let's get to the biting...the immediate issue. I suspect he's got allergies....biting his feet (possible itching) and overall anxiety...his entire body would feel like the skin is crawling/itching and makes him anxious/nervous and very reactive to everything. You need to talk to the vet and get a complete exam. Have the vet check for food allergies first and the possibility of anti-anxiety medications.
It sounds like you're a little heavy handed with the training (muzzle, prong collar, squirt bottle, heavy gloves, shouted commands like NO).
Did your instructors ever discuss with you some exercises for building trust and confidence? Did they show you other, less invasive ways to walk on loose leash, how to get your dogs attention without touching or talking to your dog or, how to stop the barking without a spray bottle?
I think the vet visit and a small change in the training approach to one of mutual cooperation, building trust and confidence instead of sheer compliance will go a long way toward resolving the biting problem.
The overall problem of missed or poor socialization, which may also play a part in the biting, will take longer to overcome. The whole idea of socialization is to find out what fears your dog has...sounds, sights, kids, cats, sudden movements, sunglasses, wheelchairs...what can trigger an inappropriate response and then working on fixing those problem areas.
At this stage, you need to go at his pace and not overwhelm him with something that he can't handle...building trust and confidence through a slow, careful introduction of mildly stressful situations.

I will check on the allergy issue but his biting of his feet is a lot more like a coping mechanism with anxiety than an allergic reaction. It seems like he needs something to bite and has just chosen his feet. He has also started propping his front paws on a table or couch and then "attacking" them. He does it repeatedly.

Regarding our training techniques, we have just been doing what seems neccesary to cope with him. I would be interested in learning what other Red Heeler owners say, because everything I have read suggests that australian cattle dogs are especially stubborn and hard to train using traditional techniques.

He pulls on the leash absolutely constantly and none of the traditional techniques seemed to work. We always click and treat when he walks in the heel position but he doesn't stay there for long. He was making us trip and fall on the ice. Therefore, we felt like we had to use a prong collar or Halti. Since we obviously cannot use a prong collar anymore because of our major incident this morning, we will use the Halti (which only annoys him but doesn't hurt).

Our dog trainer suggested the bitter apple spray for excessive barking. She even uses it on dogs in class. It seems to work fairly well. So far we have been unable to get him to agree to stop barking through any other means. I haven't heard anyone complain about its use until now.

About not saying "NO" -- its true that we say it a lot. But I just don't understand how we can avoid saying it. He is constantly nipping our feet, scratching something, biting our clothes, etc. I don't know how to stop him without saying "No."

I have been reading a lot of things and think our biggest problem might be an "alpha dog" issue. They say that Red Heelers are especially prone to think that they are the boss and need a strong alpha dog to control them.

I will look into "trust" exercises and see if I can get them to work.

[Dogstar]

Heelers aer tough dogs- but that's one of the big reasons why 'dominance' based training can be really BAD for them. To physically intimidate a heeler is going to take a LOT of force. it's MUCH simpler and more humane to manage their environment

First, check out the sticky for "NILIF" on this board. NILIF is a must with a dog like yours.

Second, how much exercise is this dog getting, and how much time is he spending crated? If you're having to yell "NO!" more than 3 times a day because he's into something? You're not supervising him closely enough, your house isn't dog-proofed enough, or he's not getting enough exercise.

[TooneyDogs]

Originally Posted by shahidhaque

I will check on the allergy issue but his biting of his feet is a lot more like a coping mechanism with anxiety than an allergic reaction. It seems like he needs something to bite and has just chosen his feet. He has also started propping his front paws on a table or couch and then "attacking" them. He does it repeatedly.

Feet are usually the 1st sign/symptom of allegies and it usually starts/ends with just licking but, biting and chewing is another sign and that's why I suggested it as a possibility.

Regarding our training techniques, we have just been doing what seems neccesary to cope with him. I would be interested in learning what other Red Heeler owners say, because everything I have read suggests that australian cattle dogs are especially stubborn and hard to train using traditional techniques.

He pulls on the leash absolutely constantly and none of the traditional techniques seemed to work. We always click and treat when he walks in the heel position but he doesn't stay there for long. He was making us trip and fall on the ice. Therefore, we felt like we had to use a prong collar or Halti. Since we obviously cannot use a prong collar anymore because of our major incident this morning, we will use the Halti (which only annoys him but doesn't hurt).

Our dog trainer suggested the bitter apple spray for excessive barking. She even uses it on dogs in class. It seems to work fairly well. So far we have been unable to get him to agree to stop barking through any other means. I haven't heard anyone complain about its use until now.

About not saying "NO" -- its true that we say it a lot. But I just don't understand how we can avoid saying it. He is constantly nipping our feet, scratching something, biting our clothes, etc. I don't know how to stop him without saying "No."

I have been reading a lot of things and think our biggest problem might be an "alpha dog" issue. They say that Red Heelers are especially prone to think that they are the boss and need a strong alpha dog to control them.

I will look into "trust" exercises and see if I can get them to work.

Try to think of the training from a different perspective. For example...Your dog barks to alert you that someone came into the house...he did his job as a good pack member...but, he gets sprayed (punished) for doing that...Why? That's very confusing for him. What is he supposed to do instead? He just gets frustrated and barks more. A better approach is to THANK HIM for doing a good job and then show him that you have everything under control....you do the meet and greet of the visitor first and then introduce him to the guest...that's what 'Alphas' do...they have the right to meet and greet first.
Instead of the NO! for chewing, try re-direction...toss a toy for him to play with and, this is the important part..praise for chewing on the right things...praise for sitting, laying or standing quietly by your side. Praise for every nice, calm behavior. That's when he earns your attention...for the good stuff....I think you might have fallen into the trap of giving attention to him for all the bad stuff....he doesn't care if it's good attention or bad attention...he got some from you.
Here's another technique to try for loose leash walking; when he gets ahead of you do an about turn. Now, he's behind you. When he reaches your side, praise and treat. If he pulls ahead again, do another about turn. Don't talk to him or even look at him when he's behind or ahead (no attention). He only earns your attention, praise and treats when he's at your side and he will eventually learn that lesson....hopefully before you make yourself dizzy with hundreds of about turns!

[Lonewolfblue]

I have an ACD myself, a Blue Heeler, and she's got several of the same characteristics as you mentioned. The only difference is she's always shown aggression towards other dogs while on leash. But I'm finding that when off leash and with a chain link fence between her and other dogs, she get's along great with then, and in fact, plays along with them. But when on leash, even if the dog is 50 feet or more away, she usually will try to lunge at it.

A BIG factor with the Heelers is exercise. They need a lot. I currently take Betty out usually on 2 walks a day, sometimes even 3, and each is at least 1-1.5 hours, but usually longer, and it's still not quite enough, but she is more managable. Your dog might also do better with other training as well, such as Rally or Agility. Like my Betty, she is great with the trainer, as it's a private class and no other dogs are present unless we do some socialization, which she's usually pretty aggressive when on leash. So we've been doing the Rally thing til the snow melts and we can take the 2 or 3 dogs out to do more work with them together.

Another thing to factor in too is your dog may be getting used to it's new surroundings, and is now trying to become more protective of what is his, and that is YOU. Betty doesn't do that at home here, but if we are in the car, she won't let anyone near the car. Not even her best friend. But if I'm out of the car, then she just sits and seems more relaxed.

If you have any questions about my Betty, or just any other questions, feel free to PM me. I don't mind sharing what I've been going through with Betty, and you can even read through my thread in the forum here. I have to get going for now, got to get back to work, as I'm finishing my lunch break, but feel free to PM me and I can get back with you. I haven't fully read this thread yet, or your post, as I'm limited on time, but will read it more thoroughly tonight and respond again.

[Lonewolfblue]

Hi, me again, lol. My comments will be in Blue....

Increasing Anxiety and Aggression

In the next few weeks, as he got more comfortable with his surroundings, his behavior started to change. He became much more suspicious of people on the street and started raising his rough at pretty much anyone who walked by (even if they were across the street). He started becoming more afraid of other dogs, and if they barked at him, he would freak out and bark uncontrollably. If anyone entered the house, even if he was in his crate, he would bark uncontrollably and aggressively. We tried to teach him not to do these things by correcting him, telling him "No" and if it was excessive, we would spray him with Bitter Apple spray.

I'm beginning to learn from having Betty, that most of her problems are stemming out from being leashed. When off leash, she seems to not have any problems with other dogs, and have played with one with a fence in between of course. Not ready yet to let her off leash with other dogs just yet. As for in the house, he's becoming more protective of what is his, and that is most likely You.

He would pull on his leash all the time, so we started using a prong collar the second week we had him. He initially took it very well and allowed us to put it on him and take it off without any problem. We used it for weeks without any issues. However, when my in-laws were in town a few weeks ago, walked Wrigley and he bit my mother-in-law when she tried to take the prong collar off. We attributed this to the fact that he was relatively unfamiliar with her and was simply frightened.

Try to stay away from corrections if you can. Heelers are very smart, and if you aren't applying the corrections at just the right time, you may suffer more problems down the road.

He started doing some strange things in the house that seem to be based out of anxiety. He started deliberately drawing his paws close to his face, then quickly pulling them away and trying to bite them. As he continued this, he would get more and more worked up and then he would eventually starting yelping and barking at his own paws! We thought it could possibly be a game so we just let him do it.

When he does this, sounds like he is Bored and needs something to do. He needs a JOB.

We have been taking him to weekly dog obedience classes to get him more socialized with other dogs, and while he is very intelligent and can do his tricks, he cannot calm down during the classes. We are now five weeks into the class and he still pants nervously the whole time. Although none of the dogs in the class are aggressive towards him, he is constantly looking over his shoulder and watching his back. He has bitten both of the instructors when they got close to him to check on his leash/collar.

Again, probably due to the leash. I would recommend a private trainer, and instead of doing just basic obedience, I would try for Rally-O, or Rally Obedience. It's a more relaxed version of Obedience, but is made more fun for both the dog and the handler.

At class last night, he bit me for the first time. He was looking at other dogs when he should have been paying attention, so I moved his face towards me and said "pay attention." He moved back, so I did it again, and he bit me. It did not break skin, but it was a full bite.

Was he on leash? Probably due to the decrease in the amount of escape that he has. This usually causes an increase in aggression if you limit their escape when they feel uncomfortable.

Things Come to a Head

This morning we had a horrible incident with Wrigley. For seemingly no reason, he started barking excessively at a dog that he usually ignores. When my wife leaned down to correct him, he bit her. When we went home and it came time to remove his prong collar, I was prepared for the fact that he may try to bite me, so I wore heavy gloves. When I tried to remove his prong collar, he went crazy and started biting me on my hand over and over again. Even though I was wearing gloves, he bruised one of my hands and he broke the skin on my other hand. Both hands really hurt -- these were real bites and he meant to bite as hard as he could. If I was not wearing gloves I think my hand would have been significantly injured. I had to hold him down with my whole body until my wife could get a muzzle.

Prong collars should only be used for training, and not be left on all the time. I would recommend not using it anymore until you can get things under control and know the proper use of that collar.

(Afterwards, he lay on the floor with his muzzle on and whined in a loud and frantic way that I had not even heard before. Perhaps he was being extremely apologetic for what he did.)

Obviously, this is completely unacceptable. If he will bite his owners, he will clearly bite anyone. I love him and I do not want to get rid of him if there is anything I can do to help him get over his severe anxiety. (No one would take him, so he would probably be put down.)

You need to make yourself the Top Dog. It won't be overnight either, you need to work towards it. This topic would make another thread in itself.

When he is at home, he is often very sweet and loving, and he comes to us constantly for cuddling and affection. But his behavior outside of the house and his recent aggression towards us is something we cannot deal with.

He's still a pup. Give him time, and be sure that you are the Boss and not Him. And lots of exercise, both physical and mental.

Advice and Suggestions

I would like your advice on what to do with Wrigley. Our dog trainer has suggested that we consider whether Wrigley would be a good candidate for some anxiety relieving drugs. Although drugs are not the solution to everything, Wrigley seems to be a dog that could truly benefit from these drugs. Since we can't keep him if he is constantly biting us, it may be life or death for our dog.

I wouldn't recommend any drugs. You could try a couple of the things at the pet store that you put in his water that supposedly helps to calm them down, but I found it doesn't work for Betty. But you can try.

I don't think the solution to our problem is just "more exercise." Not enough exercise is an excuse for crazy hyper behavior, but not aggression, and certainly not aggression towards his owners. Besides, we give him a lot of exercise. Here is his daily routine:

Every day, we walk Wrigley about 2.5 miles (once in the morning and once in the evening). On weekends we go snow shoeing and hiking for miles, and he gets enough excersize to wear him out. During the day he stays in his crate, and he sleeps in his crate in our bedroom at night. He doesn't mind his crate at all -- in fact he kennels himself up voluntarily every morning when we leave for work. I don't think the crate is an issue.

Sounds like good exercise, but you also need more mental exercise. Try finding things that make him have to think, such as Hide and Seek, or Search for something hidden, etc. Just fun things you can do around the house now and then.

[sarasmom]

Hi,

I am not a dog expert, but I have a LOT of experience with a variety of types.

One factor that you mentioned....his behavior changed as he was getting used to his surroundings. The key factor here...you! This is not an insult by any means. I believe he simply sees himself as head of the family (pack). You guys have probably felt sorry for him and "nurtured" him when what he needed was a leader. Try watching "Dog Whisperer" (Cesar Millan) He is right on with how dogs think and behave. He is what I consider the best animal behaviorist. If you can get ahold of him directly, GREAT! But, even watching his videos or tv show will help you to realize what things you are doing that are aggrevating or causing the situation. Dogs live in the moment. Don't bring his past into his present....he doesn't get it. Whatever happened to him before, he is your dog now.

Don't give up on him! Go to www.cesarmillaninc.com

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by sarasmom

Hi,

I am not a dog expert, but I have a LOT of experience with a variety of types.

One factor that you mentioned....his behavior changed as he was getting used to his surroundings. The key factor here...you! This is not an insult by any means. I believe he simply sees himself as head of the family (pack). You guys have probably felt sorry for him and "nurtured" him when what he needed was a leader. Try watching "Dog Whisperer" (Cesar Millan) He is right on with how dogs think and behave. He is what I consider the best animal behaviorist. If you can get ahold of him directly, GREAT! But, even watching his videos or tv show will help you to realize what things you are doing that are aggrevating or causing the situation. Dogs live in the moment. Don't bring his past into his present....he doesn't get it. Whatever happened to him before, he is your dog now.

Don't give up on him! Go to www.cesarmillaninc.com

My only problem here is Cesar. lol. Not to put him down or anything, but I have all his DVD's, as well as both Season 1 and Season 2 on DVD, and I've tried working with his stuff on my Betty, a 1 year old Blue Heeler, and most of what he does, just doesn't work. Also, in all his DVD's, I never once saw him work with a Heeler as well. Every dog is different. You can try some of his techniques, but if you start Pinning your heeler down for bad behaviour, I guarantee he'll become much more aggressive. That is why I immediately stopped working with Cesars techniques on Betty. Remember, Cesar is a Rehabilitator, not a Trainer. He takes extreme problem dogs, and tries to rehibilitate them to where they are hopefully at a clean slate, and training can once again begin. His techniques, in my opinion, should not be used on just an everyday dog with minimal problems. And that is another reason that I agree with those who think he should be taken off the air, because he does not make this clear, and leaves the door open to where ordinary minimal problem dogs start being abused by the pinning, and then the dog loses it's Trust in it's owner. Yes, there are people that have some success with his stuff, but I see more people that actually began having more problems than correcting the current problems.

If you want to talk about the best animal behaviorist in the country, I would definitely have to say Kathy Sdao. Her DVD, Cujo Meets Pavlov! is very potent, and she's got more meat and potatos in the DVD's than Cesar has in all his combined. Yes it's spendy, but definitely worth every penny.

[Dogsareme]

I have a few suggestions

First - like everyone else has said you have been giving him negative punishment to his negative reactions which is only intensifying his reactions more. He sees something he is scared of and gets punished for it which only makes him more scared and unsure so he is thinking "my gosh this thing is more awful then I thought, I must make it go away" so he reacts sooner and sooner and more intense. Most dogs also have on-leash aggression (called barrier frustration if you want to look it up to learn more) because they get frusterated by not being able to go check things out that they go crazy barking...

I really think he has sever and major anxiety and I think some of it was probably brought on unknowingly by the methods and things you have been trying. I really disagree that dominance is an issue here, he seems to be biting more out of fear then anything else. Fear biting is not a dominance issue.

As someone else has suggested start using Nothing In Life is Free, this helps in so many ways. It helps the dog to learn his place, to trust and look to you, fine tune his obedience, teach nice habits and doggy manners, as well as control impulse behaviors.

I would do a search on line and see what you can find to help calm your dog down. There is some dap phermone spray that works wonders in relaxing and calming dogs. You can buy a spray to spray on his collar or bandana before going out places to he still has that sence of security, and you can buy a plug in scent to place in the house. I do not think drugs would be a solution as that will only create a false calm and will not do anything in helping to actually changing his habits and behaviors. I would even suggest possibly seeing a Canine Message Therapist. This can really help take the edge off your dog and enduce his body with relaxant hormones and feelings.

What I suggest doing to start is have and keep on him a designated collar so you no longer have to deal with putting one on and off. Throw away the prong collar as that is likely adding to his anxiety. Practice everyday with him giving some treats, petting and reaching around his collar. Start slowly so you do not get bit. Start around his head and slowly work your way down the neck, if you notice any stiffness back off and go slower. Keep the treats coming, really good ones, and plentiful. Next keep him away from all stress signals. That means don't allow him to look out the window, do not take him on walks where he will see people and other dogs that will set him off. Place him in his kennel before other people come over, have the kennel in a seperate room with a radio blaring so he does not hear people coming in. This way you are going to be lowering his stress level. If his stress level is not lowered it is only going to get worse. It takes 7 days for a dogs stress level to return to normal if it is spiked, but say before that 7 days is up it is spiked again, well it goes WAY up, then it's spiked again now it really goes up and the reaction is much more intense then the last time! Now imagine it is spiked again and again... the dog is super anxious and just on edge. The dog needs more then 7 days to bring those levels down. You have to help him bring these stress levels down before anything else. I know it will be hard for him to not see people or other dogs, so I would suggest looking into buying a calming cap. It goes over there head and covers thee eyes and give slight pressure on the upper muzzle. This thing is fantastic and really does work. Put in one him if you have to bring him out in the car or go to an isolated area to exercise.
Now start working on your relationship. If he is nipping at your feet, legs, pants, don't keep saying no, give him something else to do.. find some interative doggy toys... there is such a veriety these days. If he is persistant YIPE LOUD and turn around and ignore him. All he wants is your attention and something to do but he's going about it the wrong way. Show him he is not going to get your attention by doing that. Any bad behaviors he presents, try and think of a way you can set him up so they dont' happen again or a different way to deal with them. If he is chewing things he is not allowed to, put those things out of his way and make his toys more positive and fun so he is less focused on your stuff and more excited about his own. Do training, lots of fun stuff. Dogs are more likely to learn it if it is kept fun and short. Incoporate Nothing in life is free (NILIF) into your everyday routine as I mentioned earlier this helps in so many ways and in showing him who is the leader insted of using the whole Alpha role routine... if you chose to go this routine this will only make your dogs reactions to you worse and someone may end up seriously hurt. A respected leader is calm and in control. You don't see the leader of a wolf pack going around and flipping everyone one on there backs... no you see the low man on the totem pole doing that just to save face. (also wolfs and dogs are so different these days they really should not be overly compared to a study conducted 20 years ago).
After the relationship is worked on and his stress level goes down now it is time to slowly introduce him to everyday stimuli that sets him off. Go to an isolated area where you may see one or two people or dogs at most. You don't want to go to far to quick. When you see another dog/person do not approach. Bring with you super tastey treats that he has never ever had before (even if this treat has to be raw streak bring it). Keep him a very very long distance away. If he cannot pay attention to you that means you are to close to the person or dog. Back up, go further away from them until you find out what is his threashold and his threshold would be when he can finally pay attention to you and take the treat with the person or dog still in view... even if that means they are 200 yards away... this is where you have to start. Work from there giving him plenty of yummy treats EVERYTIME he sees someone or another dog. This part is a lot of detail to really get into, so I would suggest to see where I am going with this buy the book "Click To Calm" by Emma Parsons. When in the house keep him on leash if people come to visit and do not allow those other people to pet him or move towards him. Allow him to smell them and say hi at his own pace and just have them ingore him even if he goes to say hi. If he is still in the barking starge when seeing strange people... again refer to the book "Click to Calm".

Keep working with him. You can turn his behaviors around with the right appraoch.

Don't try to go off tips from TV shows such as Ceasar Millian.. not that those things they do can't work, but if you do not know the whole reason and background on why they are doing them or what behaviors they apply to and why they apply to those behaviors and so on, they will not work. You really need to know dog behavior before you can fully understand what he is doing. Also not to criticize Millian but he does do some things out of the norm... things and I am pretty sure Ian Dunbar would not approach the same way. Just my opinion.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by Dogsareme

After the relationship is worked on and his stress level goes down now it is time to slowly introduce him to everyday stimuli that sets him off. Go to an isolated area where you may see one or two people or dogs at most. You don't want to go to far to quick. When you see another dog/person do not approach. Bring with you super tastey treats that he has never ever had before (even if this treat has to be raw streak bring it). Keep him a very very long distance away. If he cannot pay attention to you that means you are to close to the person or dog. Back up, go further away from them until you find out what is his threashold and his threshold would be when he can finally pay attention to you and take the treat with the person or dog still in view... even if that means they are 200 yards away... this is where you have to start. Work from there giving him plenty of yummy treats EVERYTIME he sees someone or another dog. This part is a lot of detail to really get into, so I would suggest to see where I am going with this buy the book "Click To Calm" by Emma Parsons. When in the house keep him on leash if people come to visit and do not allow those other people to pet him or move towards him. Allow him to smell them and say hi at his own pace and just have them ingore him even if he goes to say hi. If he is still in the barking starge when seeing strange people... again refer to the book "Click to Calm".

Have you seen Kathy Sdao's DVD, Cujo Meets Pavlov!? This is exactly what part of her DVD teaches in her seminar. Very good advice......

[Dogsareme]

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

Have you seen Kathy Sdao's DVD, Cujo Meets Pavlov!? This is exactly what part of her DVD teaches in her seminar. Very good advice......

No I have not seen her video, but I really want to. Did you get it from Dogwise? I can't find it anywhere else.....I just wrote that part going off of first hand expereince as my one dog use to be aggressive towards people.

[Lonewolfblue]

Yes, I got it from Dogwise. And being that Dogwise is located only about a half mile from me or a little more, their warehouse is open to the public, and you can just go in and find what you want and pay for it there, no shipping charges since you are picking it up. And their warehouse is huge. Love it. My fav store/warehouse.

[Dogsareme]

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

Yes, I got it from Dogwise. And being that Dogwise is located only about a half mile from me or a little more, their warehouse is open to the public, and you can just go in and find what you want and pay for it there, no shipping charges since you are picking it up. And their warehouse is huge. Love it. My fav store/warehouse.

You are so lucky!! How I wish I was near that store.....ordering from there is a bad habit of mine!! I think it's time to move... it would be beneficial and save me tones of money lol


Shahidhaque - You have had a lot of good advise on here. What are your thoughts and new plan on approaching this with your dog?

[sarasmom]

Hi,

I have to add (as I think the point was missed) I didn't mean to imply that one should simply watch a couple of episodes of "dog whisperer" and attempt all the techniques Cesar uses. Improperly applied, they can make things worse. I simply meant that watching or emailing his group may open your eyes to the fact that this is psychological behavior and not a simple obedience training issue. Owners can be (and a lot of times are) a major part of a dog's improper behavior. And, yes, different breed types react differently. Cesar does cover this issue at times, though you may have missed it. With the experience I have with dogs (not extensive, but not at all shallow either), his techniques do work when properly applied. But, I still believe that watching and listening to him can be educational and beneficial to someone who doesn't know much about dogs......again, some of his techniques (as it states at the beginning of the show) are not for the average joe.

p.s. (only my opinion among the many here...but) the dog is insecure about his roll as pack leader and seems to be getting negative vibes from somewhere. A biter is NOT a minimal issue - but, this is simply a matter of finding out what and eliminating/changing it. YOU have to become the leader - not by "pinning him down", but by being confident and secure yourself. Do NOT pity him for his past. Do NOT console him when he misbehaves (it's o.k., shhhh, or afraid to correct because he's "been through enough", etc). Only reward proper behavior. I think you should just educate yourself on a bit of dog psychology (you have plenty of names in this thread to which you can refer - don't use just one name (no one person has all the knowledge), and remember - he may be part of the family, but he isn't human and can't think like one nor learn how to do so. But, you have the ability to learn how he thinks.....

Good luck! & God bless!

[Lonewolfblue]

Yup, we do understand what you are talking about. There can be places and times where Cesars stuff can be used. But you also have to look at the individual dog as well. And for dogs like Heelers, Aussie Shep's, and Border Collies, they are very intellegent dogs, probably more intelligent than most people really understand. When I first got Betty, I went and spent a ton of money on ALL of Cesars DVD's, books, etc. I thought that I was all set. Well, after working with some of his things, Betty would outsmart me and begin a new bad behaviour. And this didn't just happen over a period of time, it was instant. Having a Heeler is quite an experience, and if you don't give them a Job, and physically and mentally tire them out, they can actually be a pain in the you-know-what, lol. But with that said, as I'm learning with Betty, and finding out what works for her as a herding dog with herding instincts, it's becoming more and more rewarding the more I work with her. And like you said above, don't just go by what one person teaches, but instead, keep an open mind, and be willing to learn new things, and find what really works for you and your dog.