[Curbside Prophet]

"Pinch," "prong," or "spike" collars are all the same device.

[retriever crazy]

thanks.. i always wonder that

[dog_whisper]

still use a prong .. dont even look at bad habbits, like curbside

[dog_whisper]

Originally Posted by luvmylabsami

I quit using the chocker only because I felt it was hurting her too and I was worried if she pulled to hard she would get chocked. I always thought a prong was dangerous too? I don't take offense...I am not an expert at dog training..just trying...any help is much appreciated from professional trainers like you!
Thanks,
Amy

hate me now love me later



prong it up trust me!!!!!!!!!!!

[drfong]

Snowbird, what kind of dog do you have? How big? I prefer a prong to a choke collar but can't find one small enough for my dogs. There are several technics for getting a dog to not pull. I started both mine on harnesses when they were really small and switched to a choke when they got about 4-5 months old. Even with the harness I was able to get them to stop pulling in a very short period of time. With Brady, the older pup I used a method in which any times the dog pulls you stop walking and don't move untill the dog quits. When they stop pulling you start walking again. As soon as the dog pulls again, you stop again. You don't need to say anything to the dog, just walk where you want to go, and stop and stand still while the dog pulls. Brady quit pulling within a week using this method. I did this from the begining, so I don't know how long it would take to break a pulling habit. With Molly I by-passed this and went straight for what I wanted. I just use a short leash, Never use a retractable, the dog should not be infront of you anyway. I hold it so it's just long enough for the dog to be right next to me. When she was not walking right I would give a quick jab with the leash or nudge her with my foot, anything to get her mind back on the task of walking next to me. I also stop and let them sniff around every once in a while and give them a verbal que like "take a break". Then when I want to go again I tell them "walk" and give alittle pull on the leashes, they fall back in place and we walk. I don't let them stop and sniff while we are walking, on on 'breaks'. She picked it up very quickly, within three or four walks. Hope that helps.

[Cooperstown]

When he/she starts to tug, stop walking. Wait until the dog loosens up on the leash then "reward" it with more walking. If you allow the dog to pull you along, your telling him/her that that is ok to do. If the dog realizes every time he/she tugs on the leash the walk ends, they will learn very fast to not do it. Another method is to very quickly turn and walk the other way when they tug, pulling the dog if you have to. This will teach them to be more aware of their master's whereabouts.

I may make a couple weeks worth of walks into about 50 feet in one hour, but it works.

[Cheetah]

^ I like these methods. I used the "stop and walk the other way" method on my dog Eevee.

I also have to say that I'm not a fan of the regular-style choke collar. It's one of the most misused training devices out there. It can cause serious damage to a dog's trachea if it's not used properly, so I would not recommend it for ANY beginning dog owner. If I had to choose, I'd choose the prong collar, because it's a lot harder to cause damage to the dog (not that it worked for me at all... all it did was make Eevee pull harder trying to get away from it lmao).

For Eevee, I used a limited check collar with verbal correction. No choking, no pinching. All it does it make a loud chain pop when you correct, and that plus a loud, gutteral "AHHH..." is the dog's correction. *shrug* Worked for me.

Every dog is different and may require a different method. >^_~<

[Curbside Prophet]

Your last statement is very true Cheetah. I would also add that we should consult a professional for proper instruction before using any kind of correction device. Even if it appears harmless...and you're unsure how a device is used, always consult a professional. Even harmless devices can be used improperly and cause pain for your animal. And if you cause pain to get what you need out of your dog, you're doing it wrong! The necessity for pain and correction to be associated is very very rare. So, educate yourself people...don't take our word for it.

[drfong]

I agree that I like a prong collar better than a choke, but I couldn't find one that would go small enough for my dogs. If I removed enough links for it to fit, there weren't any prongs left. I'm always carefull with the chokers and never leave them on the dogs. They have taken to them quickly and I can slip them on and off in just a second.

[Curbside Prophet]

drfong, I would check to make sure you have the right size prong collar. Prong collars come in four sizes, mini or micro (under 12" neck), small (12"-15"), medium (15"-21"), and large (21"+).

[drfong]

I'm pretty sure I ordered the shortest one. I couldn't find one of the micros in he store so I ordered one that was the smallest they sold. They may have sent me the wrong one because I can remove all the links to get it to fit, but then there are no prongs. I don't really need it for walking them because they do really good with the choke collars and they are easy to slip on and off. They will walk with a regular collar and leash or a harness also. They took leash walking rather quickly. I would like to get prong collars that fit to help with recall training, etc. I've been working with them doing clicker training but they only comply when I have a clicker and treats. If I don't have the treats/clicker it's like they turn deaf.

[opokki]

I didn't see anyone mention the Easywalk harness or the Sensation harness. These are harnesses that are designed not to encourage dogs to pull and I've found that they work quite well especially on large, strong dogs. The leash clips to the chest area rather than the back so the dog is oriented toward you if the leash becomes tight. I am a dog walker at the SPCA and these harnesses are used on many of the dogs.

I also see a lot of people in my neighborhood using the Gentle Leaders or Halti head collars, which many dogs seem to do well with.

With my dog, I used a regular buckle collar and 6ft leash. I changed direction frequently and stopped moving forward if the leash tightened. I think it took about 3 days to see some progress.

In some of the books I've read it seems to be highly recommended to practice off-leash first (in a safe enclosed area). Encourage the dog to walk near you and then add a leash later after you have mastered walking off-leash.

[iceburg]

I think it's all about sending the message to my dog that I'm leading and that she is to follow. If my dog gets more than her head in front of me then I JERK her back (and behind me) and give her the "walk" command (or heal). Sometimes I hook my left foot on her chest to push her back, also giving the command. The jerk is just a message I give her that she can understand. I don't ever use a choke collar. She gets the message fine. It doesn't hurt her at all. I never pull. I NEVER let her get to the point of pulling. Sometimes she just starts to walk ahead and I just tug her back as above. The leash is almost always slack. I give her lots of praise when she is doing it right by saying "good walk" (or heal).

When she stops to smell or whatever I just give her a tug forward and say walk. If i think we are coming to one of her favorite sniff spots then I initiate the stop and let her enjoy as long as it's at my invitation.

I also often give her the "wait" command to further maintain control. I stop suddenly and give a very slight tug on the lead as I say "wait". She stops instantly.

She is a seven month old Lab/Chesapeake mix, but I've found that this works on any dog so far. If the dog isn't playing nice than it may take 10 minutes to go the first 100 yards before they fall in line.

[DLR-LabLover]

The prong is not suitable for aggressive dogs and is too harsh for extremely shy or fearful dogs. The prong is not for young puppies, although it can be used under the guidance of an experienced trainer for older puppies.

The prong collar is made of interlocking links, each with two blunt prongs that pinch the dog's skin when the collar is tightened. It should fit snugly just below the dog's ears. Unlike the chain slip collar, it puts even pressure around the neck by pinching the skin in a band about a half inch wide. No pressure is put directly on the trachea with the pinch collar.

Personally I use the "halti" head halter. It works great on our older Lab (almost 2) and she walks fine, with no jumping/pulling, without it on as well.
You just have to make sure you get the right size, that it doesn't go up around the eyes and don't use it on dogs with small/thin necks or jumpy/easily exciteable/fearful dogs. The one's that pull backwards can slip out of the halti if it's not on right.

You just have to find what works best for you and your dog...as well as training.

[opokki]

Originally Posted by drfong

I've been working with them doing clicker training but they only comply when I have a clicker and treats. If I don't have the treats/clicker it's like they turn deaf.

Maybe the clicker and treats have become part of the cue? Perhaps they are too noticeable to the dogs while being used.

I used a clicker and treats partially while teaching Natalie to walk on leash. The clicker was in my left hand on the leash...I held the leash and the clicker as if they were attatched. The treats were kept in my pocket out of sight.

I use the clicker a lot more now for other things but I keep it enclosed in my hand so its not visibly noticeable. The treats are kept out of site, either in my pocket or up on a shelf or table nearby but always out of site. And when I don't have my clicker on hand I use the verbal marker "good".

I'm variable in what I offer so Natalie is always eager to respond. She may get a treat or a life reward and just praise at other times. I try to remain unpredictable to keep her interested.

[Curbside Prophet]

opokki's last statement drfong is gold. Are you familiar with Karen Pryor? I do believe she's right up your alley.

[drfong]

No I haven't heard of her, I can google her and see what comes up.

[Curbside Prophet]

I'm just now getting into one of her books, "Don't Shoot The Dog," and she goes into great detail on operant conditioning. I think that could be your niche with your pups.

[drfong]

Thanks, found her website. I'll look into it.

[mscar22]

you could use a headcollar. it gives you a little more control. but basically it just comes down to trainging. if your dog is pulling. the walk stops. call back to your heal position. then walk on. once they start pulling, you just stop. it might take 30m of constant stop-start but if you can be consistent. your dog will learn. this method is doing wonders for buster