Could really use feedback- issue with Kody yesterday

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 02:46 PM

Let me start by saying you should read my post titled: 1 year old beagle with seperation anxiety. Basically Kody will do anything, including biting me and drawing blood, to keep me from leaving the house without him.

2 days ago, Kody got out as I was trying to leave, he ran down the block, and then across the street to my neighbor directly across from me. Went over to their gate and started barking wildly at their dog on the other side. I was able to run him down, grabbed him by the scruff of his neck, and walked him back to the house. He had no collar on, and i didn't want to pick him up because I carry him around like a baby a lot. I wanted him to know he wasn't getting any affection.

Yesterday- I was getting ready to leave, I had just gotten home from work at like 4:15- and It was 4:40 and I was going over to my parents house. I put his bark collar on, (please don't turn this into an e collar debate. I use it, and nothing will make me stop, its on him 5 hrs a day, and if we go out at night, if you don't understand, go get a beagle, and have a talkative border collie mix live next door,) and I went to leave, and he BOLTED out the door and straight across the street to the nighbors house again. Aside from him easily being able to be hit by a car, he was being VERY disobedient. I ran across the street and grabbed him, gave him a firm "NO" and held him by the scruff of his neck and headed back home. In the middle of the road, he stopped, (I wasnt even pulling on him, just holding on to his neck in case,) well he lays down, belly up, paws up, very submissively. I said Kody, let's go, stood him up, and kept trying to walk. The closer we got to home, the slower he walked, and he dug his feet firmly into the ground and stopped moving when we got to the walkway.

He never gets hit, or gets anything physical done to him as punishment. I am trying to figure out why he reacted that way, and what can be done to prevent this. In my opinion, crating him before I leave will not solve the problem. It will only piss him off more. I want him to sit patiently at the door and LET me leave. I want to teach him that, not throw him in a cage cuz it will stop the problem. I want ANY and ALL suggestions, please. I'm looking forward to hearing from RonE too, I know he has a couple escape artists on his hands

heres Kody so you can all see how cute he is:

briteday · 01-21-2008, 03:18 PM

I don't leave my dogs loose in the house when I'm gone so they are automatically in a crate when I am walking out the door. The only time a door opening with them loose in the house would be to go out and get the mail or something.

You need to get into some obedience lessons with your dog. They need to learn sit, stay, wait, leave it, walking on a leash, and coming reliably when called.

TooneyDogs · 01-21-2008, 04:12 PM

I strongly agree with obedience training. Your posts from the past indicate several problems and professional help is definately needed. We can tell you how to temporarilly stop the biting and bolting but, if/when it turns into redirected aggression (no longer directed at you but now at another dog) you're going to have yet another issue. This is why serious/professional guidance is needed so you can head off problems while training.

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 04:18 PM

Oh i forgot to mention, kody graduated from obediance training.

Kody knows sit, shake, down, roll over, stay, ask (keeps his butt on the ground and his hands out for the treat,)

he ONLY has this issue when I leave. And not in the morning, when I leave for work, he sits nicely at the door, asks for a treat, I give him one, and go. If I come home from work to say, change, and try to leave again, he freaks out.

I crate Chance during the day because he chews. Aside from not letting me leave the house, Kody is a perfect angel during the day. nothing gets chewed, He spends most of his day outside (according to the neighbor) hanging out in his pen.

When the beagles get locked up, they get destructive. kody howls and barks, and scratches on the crate and makes his nails bleed. Why solve a problem by creating another one?

I am not fighting with you guys or anything, just giving you more imput into the situaion.

My dogs are generally very good, well behaved dogs, but I like getting your feedback.

Elana55 · 01-21-2008, 05:00 PM

The issue is leaving a second time so you KNOW when the behavior will occur. Think very hard.. What can you do differently to block or circumvent that behavior? How about having Kody sit far back from the door and throw him a treat as you leave? This way he is rewarded by your leaving (and most Beagles I have known are very food oreiented!).

I think that dragging him home by his scruff is a bad idea. Do you have a catch loop type of leash? maybe put that on him and lead him home. When you grab his scruff you are asking for his submission (like a Mother dog would if I recall my reading correctly). He submitted and you did not give up.. so he submitted more and you dragged harder.. and it just escalated (I am guessing).

He has been rewarded for running out by getting to the Neighbor's dog. Now you have to divert him with a better reward for NOT running out.

Four dogs is a LOT to handle.. I would have to quit my day job to do four dogs well... and then there would be no one to earn money for dog food!

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 05:12 PM

thank you for the feedback! I didnt really drag him persay, but I did hold onto it. So when he submitted by laying down, andf I kept making him go, that was wrong. I get it now. I will keep a slip lead by the door just in case.

He knows when I am leaving. if I grab my keys, he is at the door. If I try to sit him far back he will run forward. we will work on stay more, because a dog that truely knows stay, will stay with distractions, correct?

LittleMoonRabbit · 01-21-2008, 05:18 PM

Is there any way that you can make the crate more enjoyable so that he will stay in there without injuring himself? Do you ever put him in there when you are at home? I messed up royally crate training my dog in the beginning because I was only crating her when it was "nuh-nights" time, or I was leaving. Because of that, she became terrified of the crate. She would run away when I went to get her in it, and then once I closed the door she would scratch and cry. It took a few weeks to fix my mistake... but now, she loves her crate. Have you tried putting Kody in the crate while you are at home and treating him when he enters it? Or playing games with the crate? I often play "find the treat" with my dog and hide treats in her crate (I wrap the treat in a bunch of towels and have her dig in them until she finds the hidden treasure). She also has a Kong that gets stuffed with kibble and a thin coating of PB when I leave. Now, she almost gets excited when I get my keys and get ready to leave because she enjoys the time she spends in the crate, and associates that space with "good things." Just a suggestion.

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 05:26 PM

And thats how I am with Chance and Moose. i dont feel bad about putting them in the crate. Kody hated the crate from the get go cuz he would howl. My only problem with the crate is that he does fine out of it. I would rather fix the not letting me leave issue. All was well up until a few days ago. And I'm thinking I threw off his schedule. My friend visited for 6 days, so there was a stranger in the house AND I was home all the time. Now I'm on a new schedule, I am actually home more now... Well 3 days instead of just 2. I think he might be going through an adjustment period.

Annamarie · 01-21-2008, 05:31 PM

you need to practice how the dog leaves the house. my dog used to be a bolter too. he's not 100% solved yet (the other day my SO left the door open and he saw a dog walking by so ran out on the street to bark at it because he HATES that dog, luckily I caught him before he got to the dog or got hit by a passing truck....) but it's better.

put the dog on a leash, and open the door. the second the dog bolts for the door, pull him back and say NO! and put him in a sit. practice this a few times, it will take a few times for the dog to realize that he has to wait for the ok from you to move towards the door. the doorway has to become YOUR space. then practice by leaving the door open, putting the dog on a longer leash, and disappearing out the side of the doorway so the dog can't see you. if the dog bolts out the door, same thing, pull him back and say NO! and put him in a stay.

you also have to practice a reliable recall, and also teach your dog that sit means you put your butt on the ground immediately. this is the only way we could stop our min pin from running down the street when he got out. a firm "SIT!" and he wags his tail, puts his ears down, and sits down and waits for us. he always gets rewarded for coming and sitting, even if it's just praise. remember that when you finally catch the dog if you're having trouble, don't discipline the dog or it just makes the dog want to avoid being caught.

when you come home from work, it might be necessary to use a baby gate or some kind of barrier to the door so the dog can't bolt out until you have this straightened out.

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 05:38 PM

Thank you. I was told before that you can scold the dog if you catch it, but that makes sense to "If mom catches me I get in trouble, I better not let mom catch me." People would get so confused at me like when Kody would come back and I'd say GOOD BOY!!! They'd say, you just rewarded him for running away, and Id say um no the last thing he did was come back- thats what he got rewarded for.

I like the leash idea. I use it when company comes over to stop the dogs from jumping on them, never even though of it to stop him from leaving. DUH!! Thats why I come here!

I am going to go home and practice this. I will have my fiance tape it so you can see what he does, and then when he gets better you will see his improvement.

Elana55 · 01-21-2008, 06:28 PM

Any command you give a dog, the dog is supposed to obey until you give the release command or give a new command.

Stay is a command and the dog is to stay until you tell the dog something else... so if you tell poor Kody to STAY and leave he is, theoretically, supposed to stay until you get back. I have had dogs that would do this and the one I have now I will have this way before long.

I use STAY only when I am going to return to the dog. If I want the dog to WAIt for the next command, I use the word WAIT... which means hang in there like that cuz more is coming!

If I want Atka to Wait somewhere until I have done something (like rearrange her dog bed).. and then she is free to go. I have her sit, then tell her Wait ... and I go about my business and then I either use a recall and release her or simply release her. My release words are "go ahead..."

so, I have a dog who now prefers wait to stay (stay is soooo boring.. cuz she has to stay until I get back to her) and who comes when called (cuz treats are really great) and who leaps 5-6 feet straight up in the air (come one come all to see the Amazing Airborn one-of-kind sable GSD) when I say "go ahead..."

BTW she never goes thru a door unless I say "in" or "out" and believe me she knows the difference!

wvasko · 01-21-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dogs3cats

Thank you. I was told before that you can scold the dog if you catch it, but that makes sense to "If mom catches me I get in trouble, I better not let mom catch me." People would get so confused at me like when Kody would come back and I'd say GOOD BOY!!! They'd say, you just rewarded him for running away, and Id say um no the last thing he did was come back- thats what he got rewarded for.

I like the leash idea. I use it when company comes over to stop the dogs from jumping on them, never even though of it to stop him from leaving. DUH!! Thats why I come here!

I am going to go home and practice this. I will have my fiance tape it so you can see what he does, and then when he gets better you will see his improvement.

I'm confused she said Kody had graduated from obedience class. Do they not teach the stay any more in class.

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 06:56 PM

No they do. He knows stay- to an extent. i can put him in a stay and walk away and he WILL stay till i come back, but all the things he has learned goes out the window when its time for me to leave the house. My uncle has a golden who he can tell him to stay, go out in the garage, come back and the dog is still there. He worked with him every day since puppyhood, and now sprockett is the best behaved dog. i guess time and consistency will go a long way. kody needs to learn that stay means stay until I say so, not stay until he feels like it.

wvasko · 01-21-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elana55

Any command you give a dog, the dog is supposed to obey until you give the release command or give a new command.

Stay is a command and the dog is to stay until you tell the dog something else... so if you tell poor Kody to STAY and leave he is, theoretically, supposed to stay until you get back. I have had dogs that would do this and the one I have now I will have this way before long.

I use STAY only when I am going to return to the dog. If I want the dog to WAIt for the next command, I use the word WAIT... which means hang in there like that cuz more is coming!

If I want Atka to Wait somewhere until I have done something (like rearrange her dog bed).. and then she is free to go. I have her sit, then tell her Wait ... and I go about my business and then I either use a recall and release her or simply release her. My release words are "go ahead..."

so, I have a dog who now prefers wait to stay (stay is soooo boring.. cuz she has to stay until I get back to her) and who comes when called (cuz treats are really great) and who leaps 5-6 feet straight up in the air (come one come all to see the Amazing Airborn one-of-kind sable GSD) when I say "go ahead..."

BTW she never goes thru a door unless I say "in" or "out" and believe me she knows the difference!

4dogs3cats, Elana55 has a good idea that you can take a different route(something to try)

Actually you could use the wait command to mean stay till you go out of sight. Then the dog could break her wait command. In reality stay means you stay till I come back or you die of old age(the dog) If you teach the dog to just wait until you disappear it gives the dog a self release so when you walk out of the door and releases the pressure on dog at that time. Dog learns that wait just means a short time. It's not that hard to teach. The initial bolting will be the hardest to break once you get that done and he waits long enough for you to get out the door, trust me he will release himself after a bit. So he does not confuse wait command with stay, I would add a hand signal to your verbal stay command until he gets the verbal commands unmixed in his head. Then you can phase out hand signal. Just something for you to have fun with.

4dogs3cats · 01-21-2008, 09:11 PM

Thanks, I'll try anything I can! There is a little side window next to my front door so i can always release him through the window as well.

Durbkat · 01-21-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4dogs3cats

He knows when I am leaving. if I grab my keys, he is at the door. If I try to sit him far back he will run forward. we will work on stay more, because a dog that truely knows stay, will stay with distractions, correct?

When you put him into a sit and you try to leave and he bolts towards you, close the door and put him back into a sit. I'm sure this will take a while so do it on a day when you have nothing to do.