[SK63]

Here's my worst nightmare scenario, the Dog Whisperer followers begin to see that "Cesar's Way" is not as effective in real life as it is on the tube. After working with their dog for an hour, there are no results. So what would be the next method of gaining pack dominance and total control ? An E-COLLAR. This is truly a nightmare scenario.

Most, if not all, on this board seem to be reasonable dog lovers, well versed in dogs and training but the use of shock collars making it in to the mainstream ? God help our 4 legged friends. I pray I don't start seeing the "Cesar Commandos" showing up at the park with a Tri-Tronics in hand saying "Cesar says I must be the pack leader, this shock collar definitely makes me the pack leader...hahahaha"

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by SK63

Here's my worst nightmare scenario, the Dog Whisperer followers begin to see that "Cesar's Way" is not as effective in real life as it is on the tube. After working with their dog for an hour, there are no results. So what would be the next method of gaining pack dominance and total control ? An E-COLLAR. This is truly a nightmare scenario.

Most, if not all, on this board seem to be reasonable dog lovers, well versed in dogs and training but the use of shock collars making it in to the mainstream ? God help our 4 legged friends. I pray I don't start seeing the "Cesar Commandos" showing up at the park with a Tri-Tronics in hand saying "Cesar says I must be the pack leader, this shock collar definitely makes me the pack leader...hahahaha"

You do know that e-collars have been in use by the mainstream (anybody that could afford to buy them) long before Cesar had his 1st TV show and the dog world has survived.

[Shanette Peters]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Absolutely. The target behavior in this case is not submission, it's to leave the trash alone (the behavior you're trying to increase the frequency of). So, you would add (positive) an an alpha roll (punishment) every time he went for the trash, hoping it reduces the frequency of trash diving.

would that not be the the dog submitting to the boundary of staying out of the trash? Considering that a person would probably have to do it more than once if the dog continues the action. My dog has gotten into the garbage in the past, however i hadn't used the pinning to the ground in this case instead if i caught her in the act of it i said firmly ' leave it', then praise her for doing so, for her that has worked, also keeping the garbage out of her access(preventing it from happening to begin with). Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 'leave it' command will work for every dog, just that it has worked with mine. In my opinion, every dog is different some require more effort than others, and some people are more capable than others of getting the desired responce.(I'd guess that's where a persons energy is determind, desplaying as alpha roll or not)

Originally Posted by SK63

Here's my worst nightmare scenario, the Dog Whisperer followers begin to see that "Cesar's Way" is not as effective in real life as it is on the tube. After working with their dog for an hour, there are no results. So what would be the next method of gaining pack dominance and total control ? An E-COLLAR. This is truly a nightmare scenario.

Most, if not all, on this board seem to be reasonable dog lovers, well versed in dogs and training but the use of shock collars making it in to the mainstream ? God help our 4 legged friends. I pray I don't start seeing the "Cesar Commandos" showing up at the park with a Tri-Tronics in hand saying "Cesar says I must be the pack leader, this shock collar definitely makes me the pack leader...hahahaha"

I agree, I'd hope that people listen to all of what cesar tries to show not just parts, and then resort to the cruelty of those shock collars. A friend of mine was going to use one for her two dachshunds for their 'out of control barking' , when i saw her get one i asked her if she'd try it on before she used it on her dogs. She did and decided not to go ahead with it. But in her case I also said barking is a dog's natural action like talking is to us. Of course not everyone will agree with me, but oh well, any other thaughts about barking?

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by Shanette Peters

would that not be the the dog submitting to the boundary of staying out of the trash? Considering that a person would probably have to do it more than once if the dog continues the action. My dog has gotten into the garbage in the past, however i hadn't used the pinning to the ground in this case instead if i caught her in the act of it i said firmly ' leave it', then praise her for doing so, for her that has worked, also keeping the garbage out of her access(preventing it from happening to begin with).

No, the dog isn't submitting to a boundary. The dog can only submit to whomever he's having the contest with. We, the owner, made the boundary, so the contest is with the owner. The difference between pinning a dog to stop him from trash diving and teaching leave it is this... In teaching leave it, you show the dog that leaving a boundary IS the most rewarding behavior, assuming you've taught the dog what leave it means. That is the preferred method IMO, as 'leave it' becomes the instructive reprimand.

[SK63]

wvasko
I've been going to a large dog park (60 acres+) nearly every day for the last 10 years (at least) and have only seen a handful of e-collars, mostly on the sporting breed and being used by men. I can only think of one woman with a shock collar on her dog, she had a group of GSP's, I think she runs a rescue. I can't agree that E-collars are in the mainstream with the exception of hunters and those that are in to serious training.

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by SK63

wvasko
I've been going to a large dog park (60 acres+) nearly every day for the last 10 years (at least) and have only seen a handful of e-collars, mostly on the sporting breed and being used by men. I can only think of one woman with a shock collar on her dog, she had a group of GSP's, I think she runs a rescue. I can't agree that E-collars are in the mainstream with the exception of hunters and those that are in to serious training.

I did not say everybody was buying one, I said they were here to buy if somebody wanted to, Cadillac cars have been in the mainstream for years but not everybody buys one. I also think that not everybody that watches Cesar is going to run out and get an e-collar. I guess in my roundabout way I was saying you can sleep comfortably there will not be Cesar commandos running around with their hands on the button lol

[everest]

I think Ceaser's methods on walking and projecting positive energy are great. The basic ideas in his methods are great to follow. That being said, just because you watch the show doesn't mean your him. There's a reason they put up those warnings at the begining of every show.

[jerzegirl]

Originally Posted by SK63

Here's my worst nightmare scenario, the Dog Whisperer followers begin to see that "Cesar's Way" is not as effective in real life as it is on the tube. After working with their dog for an hour, there are no results. So what would be the next method of gaining pack dominance and total control ? An E-COLLAR. This is truly a nightmare scenario.

Most, if not all, on this board seem to be reasonable dog lovers, well versed in dogs and training but the use of shock collars making it in to the mainstream ? God help our 4 legged friends. I pray I don't start seeing the "Cesar Commandos" showing up at the park with a Tri-Tronics in hand saying "Cesar says I must be the pack leader, this shock collar definitely makes me the pack leader...hahahaha"

I didn't read every word of every post and maybe I missed something but what does this point have to do with anything? There's NO truth in what you're saying.

How do you liken Ceasar to an e collar? Simply because you don't like either of them? How are you to know that a dog owner not getting results with Ceasar's methods (pretty unlikely anyways if you asked me) are going to go for an e collar in the first place?

Ceasar didn't invent the e collar and although I've seen him use it ... once I think ... he doesn't go for it every case or even every case that is more work then most.

So ... I don't know where you get your information but shock collar does not equal Ceasar Milan.

I'm a hardcore "Cesar Commando" - - I've read both books ... watched as many shows as I can (haven't seen many of the new season yet because they just started in Canada) and poked around on his website on a regular basis, tried many of his methods and I have no desire / need to use an e collar.

Just to point out ... I've tried many of his techniques and the change is amazing =)

[wvasko]

Originally Posted by jerzegirl

I didn't read every word of every post and maybe I missed something but what does this point have to do with anything? There's NO truth in what you're saying.

How do you liken Ceasar to an e collar? Simply because you don't like either of them? How are you to know that a dog owner not getting results with Ceasar's methods (pretty unlikely anyways if you asked me) are going to go for an e collar in the first place?

Ceasar didn't invent the e collar and although I've seen him use it ... once I think ... he doesn't go for it every case or even every case that is more work then most.

So ... I don't know where you get your information but shock collar does not equal Ceasar Milan.

I'm a hardcore "Cesar Commando" - - I've read both books ... watched as many shows as I can (haven't seen many of the new season yet because they just started in Canada) and poked around on his website on a regular basis, tried many of his methods and I have no desire / need to use an e collar.

Just to point out ... I've tried many of his techniques and the change is amazing =)

jerzegirl
I have managed to watch one of his shows. I saw nothing that I could not live with. The big problem SK63 has (my own opinion) is that Cesar used the e-collar instead of exhausting all other methods. Now SK63 talked about a nightmare scenario. How about a different scenario, Cesar saw dog, read dog, and went quickly to the method he thought was quick, efficient and evidently worked to some degree.
I don't really know because I did not see it. My scenario is if I call a plumber and he comes to home and fixes my plumbing, I'm happy. I think thats what tradesman/journeymen etc do. Please everybody, I'm not saying that plumbing is dog work, just my way of explaining my thoughts on this. As I said I'm not pro or anti Cesar just neutral. In closing jerze instead of being a Cesar commando just be a jerze commando because if you are in dogs you got to think for yourself. You have to build your own program about training your dogs. You can use some of Cesar and other trainer's methods that you beg, borrow or steal. That is the way you improve your own dog skills. My opinion only.

[jerzegirl]

I agree wvasko about picking and choosing what training methods you use =)

The only episode I've seen of Ceasar using an e collar was with the cattle dog that went after the tractor wheels. If that's the episode in question - the dog had already lost one eye from being in an accident with the tractor. Yet, it was a farm dog and the owners wanted it to be out with them but obviously not to go after the wheels.

So you need a correction you can use from a distance and you need to break that habit fast or the dog could possibly be killed. Other then an e collar, I can think of a citronella collar that you could use at that distance. And don't forget the sound of the tractor or other farm machinery going on, so it's noisy.

For those who haven't seen that episode, Ceasar did not use the collar on full power either. Personally, I wouldn't want to use an e collar - - but if the alternative was the "possible" death of my dog, I'd definitely reconsider.

[mom2kdg]

First, I have to admit I enjoy his show.

What I think most people feel to realize is he deal with very difficult situations and dogs. I don't think that I could get Ceaser to come to my house with his camera crew and stop my dog from digging holes in the lawn. It's pretty much what dogs do. But if he ripped the neighbors dog's head off he would be here in a pinch.

He has a show for a reason!

[Gates1026]

Originally Posted by mom2kdg

First, I have to admit I enjoy his show.

I was a really big Cesar fan for a while when I had first brough home Bailey. It really seemed like magic what he was doing and it made sense at the time. I watched as many of his shows as I could and read his first book.

As I read more of his book and watched his shows, it made me want to branch out and read more and more on the subject. There were a few books out there that were really great and changed my views quite a lot.

I do still watch his show from time to time when I see it on, but now for purely entertainment value.

The only episode I've seen of Ceasar using an e collar was with the cattle dog that went after the tractor wheels. If that's the episode in question - the dog had already lost one eye from being in an accident with the tractor. Yet, it was a farm dog and the owners wanted it to be out with them but obviously not to go after the wheels.

I never did get to see this specific incident. It surprised me a little bit to hear that he used a shock collar right from the start, it doesn't really seem to fit with his thoughts about dominance and pack theory. He doesn't tend to stray much from his usual methods from what I have seen......although I have noticed in this most recent season the show has changed a bit. Did he say anything about that during this show?

[Shanette Peters]

[quote=Gates1026;190510][quote=mom2kdg;190491]First, I have to admit I enjoy his show.

I was a really big Cesar fan for a while when I had first brough home Bailey. It really seemed like magic what he was doing and it made sense at the time. I watched as many of his shows as I could and read his first book.

As I read more of his book and watched his shows, it made me want to branch out and read more and more on the subject. There were a few books out there that were really great and changed my views quite a lot.

I do still watch his show from time to time when I see it on, but now for purely entertainment value.



I never did get to see this specific incident. It surprised me a little bit to hear that he used a shock collar right from the start, it doesn't really seem to fit with his thoughts about dominance and pack theory. He doesn't tend to stray much from his usual methods from what I have seen......although I have noticed in this most recent season the show has changed a bit. Did he say anything about that during this show?

I can remember that show now, He did explain why he was using that method(i can't recall his exact words so I won't try to retell what he said). Although from my memory he also was correcting other behaviors durring that tapping with the same dog and used his regular methods for those. I'd have to rewatch the show, maybe there will be a repeat. It is obvious there are people to agree with Cesar's methods of rehabilitating dogs and those who don't, to each their own - everyone has an opinion. Has anyone heard of the show 'At the end of my leash' - I think the guys name is Brad ? What are your thaughts on this guy and his methods? If I could watch either show I'd prefer to watch Cesar. My appologies if anyone is annoyed by my change of subject.

[jerzegirl]

I (obviously ) love Ceasar ... I just wanted to point out that it's not common for him to suggest an e collar .. but if the choice is a dead dog I think it's the right choice!

End of My Leash ... I watch it sometimes and I think most of his ideas are good but I don't like all the screaming he does at the people and the dogs. I can't usually make it through a full episode ... too much yelling for me.

[ACampbell]

I don't watch the "Dog whisperer" (mainly because I don't get Animal Planet currently and am not paying an extra $10 a month to see stuff I've seen a dozen times already whe nI did have it)
With that being said, how can people not realize that a disclaimer, although holding the liable party harmless, is useless.
The show "Jackass" has a disclaimer, and idiots still do those stunts....