Time spent in Crate

Elana55 · 01-08-2008, 02:20 PM

I have kicked this subject around a lot with fellow dog people, but thought I would put it up here.

I have a 1 year old German Shepherd dog (spay).

I hesitated to get another dog as I go to work days and the dog is confined during that time in a large crate. I leave at 6:00AM and return at 4:20PM M-F. She has water and toys in her crate and I do leave her with a food filled kong to puzzle over.

As soon as I get home I go right to the dog and get her out.. and I mean as SOON as I get home.

I have been doing this for 7 months with no problem. Fact is, the dog often spends a few minutes out side sniffing around before she relieves herself and seems in no distress.

I have an outside fenced area that I rarely use (she is with me when I am home). Since it is only 4 feet high I don't want to go off and leave her there.

I was considering setting up a large (10X12) 6 foot high kennel and putting her their days that are nice. However, there have been a few dog thefts in the area recently so I think that, even if it is locked and has a wire top on it, this is a bad idea. I also am concerned that she will take up barking or some other self reinforcing habit that I will only have to work to extinguish.

Most of the people I have spoken to have dogs in similar situations, but there are those who feel that this long in a crate M-F is too long and it is "cruel." I have not had a problem and the dog does not seem to be in distress.

She is walked 1 and a quarter to one and a half miles in the morning before I leave and at LEAST 2 miles at night when I get home. We do formal dog training classes once a week and I train her every day at every opportunity and we have at least one "formal" session a day. I use a clicker and have been learning positive reinforcement training at the weekly training sessions and from books by Jean Donaldson and others.

Weekends and days off we walk 5 or more miles a day and train for short sessions a few times a day plus as opportunity arises (feeding time, on walks etc.).

This dog is perfect weight and size. Her coat shines (she gets groomed frequently) and she is UTD on vet work. I say all this to point out that I really take good care of her.

However, in spite of those who say not, I am concerned she is being left too long without being able to relieve herself. She seems fine and many say it is OK, but it seems a LONG time to me. I live in the country and I have no access to someone to walk the dog daily while I am at work. I cannot afford dog day care.

What do you all think? I was told by a non dog person today that I am being cruel to my dog leaving her in a crate days!

lilylow · 01-08-2008, 03:15 PM

It sounds to me as though you have the dogs best interest on hand at all times...dogs are trained to hold it during the day...even if she had the run of the house and more space to move in you still wouldn't expect her to relieve herself during the day...most dogs are alone for 8-10 hours a day because people have to work...but i think a dog with a working person who loves them is better then a dog with an abusive person who stays home...keep up the good work!

the-tenth · 01-08-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elana55

She is walked 1 and a quarter to one and a half miles in the morning before I leave and at LEAST 2 miles at night when I get home. We do formal dog training classes once a week and I train her every day at every opportunity and we have at least one "formal" session a day. I use a clicker and have been learning positive reinforcement training at the weekly training sessions and from books by Jean Donaldson and others.

Weekends and days off we walk 5 or more miles a day and train for short sessions a few times a day plus as opportunity arises (feeding time, on walks etc.).

This dog is perfect weight and size. Her coat shines (she gets groomed frequently) and she is UTD on vet work. I say all this to point out that I really take good care of her.

You would be suprised at how many of the people who tell you that it is cruel for you to crate your dog like you are, don't give their dogs a quarter of the attention that yours is getting. HOnestly though, a year is about the time when we usually start experimenting with giving the dog some added freedom. Maybe consider gating off your kitchen while you run to the store and work your way up from there. Most dogs wish thy could get the excercise and training that it sounds like yours is getting, even the ones with free reign of the house.

TooneyDogs · 01-08-2008, 03:34 PM

Another approach you might want to consider is giving her more freedom in the house. We start our puppies in the gated laundry room (ceramic floor so, easy clean-up). When we see that they can reliably hold it, we start giving them more of the house during the day (we close doors and put up gates). Now, they have the entire house all day.

4dogs3cats · 01-08-2008, 04:17 PM

I want to see her!! Post a picture!! I have a dog door going through the side of my house into a gated area. Its about 30X10 though, so its pretty large. I have 4 dogs so thats where they go potty, (when they arent going on my new laminate floor,) But it seems to me like she gets plenty of exersize. Sometimes my finace stays home from work and he says all my dogs do all day long is sleep, so it's not like she is doing anything out of the norm. My german shepherd was VERY destructive when I didnt crate him. He now LOVES his crate and goes in there on his own when all the dogs are just relaxing around the house. Would you rather that or this:

haha Im not saying she would, but mine wasnt getting enough exercise either, but seems to me like she is very well taken care of

briteday · 01-08-2008, 04:28 PM

If you think it would make you feel less guilty you could put her in doggy daycare once or twice each week. But honestly, I think you are doing a great job already.

bethneebabe · 01-08-2008, 06:39 PM

I think that you are doing the responsible thing by keeping him in a good sized crate when you are gone. It keeps him out of things that are potentially dangerous in your house. And it sounds like you are keeping him mentally and physically engaged while you are at home. Know that you are doing the right thing for your family. If your baby seems happy, I wouldn't worry about it. If you want to see if he can handle the run of the house, other people have had great suggestions about blocking him off in a kitchen some other area that easy to clean. Keep up the good work

mom2kdg · 01-08-2008, 09:59 PM

I agree with what everyone has already stated here. I'm a stay at home mom/dog mom. He sleeps after the morning chaos. I walk him in the afternoon about 3 miles then honestly most of the time after his walk he is sleeping again. 99% of the time he is in his crate (the crate door open) it's where he chooses to be. If I were at work I would feel a bit guily but I get to see first hand that that's where he choose to be.

You sound like your doing a great job. Your dog is very lucky to be so well taken care of.

P.S. I don't take advice from childless couples on how to raise my 3 children. Please don't judge yourself so harshly from people that don't own dogs.

Elana55 · 01-09-2008, 08:13 AM

I was told this same thing before I got her with the emphasis on getting her plenty of exercise. One person asked me if I was willing to walk her in the dark, all sorts of weather etc. b4 work and then again for at least an hour after work. I said I would do this and I have.

The ONLY time we do not walk is if there is ice on the road since drivers cannot stop or maneuver and I would hate to be slid into (or be the cause of someone sliding off the road). This scenario is rare (twice so far this winter). Walking on ice is dangerous for my dog and for me anyhow, so it is best avoided.

On those days I substitute play and clicker training. I ask this dog "dog training?" and she goes nutz. She loves it. She can't WAIT to do new things (like 101 things to do with a box or anything other 'target). She goes and GETS the box if we don't do box work. She ASKS to do this.

Then we go to dog school... where there are a ton of distractions and she doesn't do anything she learned at home and makes me look like an idiot... so I have been training more on basics with distractions around. It is improving.

One time coming home from dog school she was sitting in the truck with me and I looked at her and apologized for not being a great dog trainer. She put her paw on my arm and her head on my shoulder as if to say, "That's OK. I love you anyhow. Just keep the treats coming!" (Yeah.. I know.. anthropomorphising...)

Thanks for the imput on this. I had researched it b4 getting her but yesterday a non dog owner seemed ready to report me to the police for cruelty. Of course she "had" a dog and kept it in a stockade fence area 12X20 days while at work with a dog house.. and that was in all sorts of weather. My dog is in her (large, life stages by Midwest) crate in a heated area with her kong stuffed and other durable toys and a water dish.

My daily schedule is around the dog, the cats and going to work so they have the best I can provide. I live alone so I can devote a lot of time and effort into all of this and I do.

Thanks again. I will share some of this informatin with the person who labeled me as cruel. It won't change her mind (probably) but maybe it will get her off my back.

Since starting to use a crate I have rarely had a housebreaking or inappropriate chewing issue with any dog. This is my 4th dog in a crate. The difference before is I was a full time farmer so crate confinement was pretty minimal and my dogs had to work cattle. This is the first time I have had a dog since not being a farmer and having to work all day (someone has to earn $$ for dog food!).

Anela · 01-09-2008, 10:04 AM

I have a soft spot in my heart for Shepard’s. I think they are wonderful dogs.

I also think you are doing things well I'll just add a few cents.

I have heard on more than one occasion that when a dog is forced to hold it (especially females) UTI can become an issue. Believe me, having had experience with this (not due to crating I work from home, all of my three large dogs roam free of the house) you do not want to go through this.

Also, there are lots of people who have lots of different opinions about crating. Those opinions derive from their experiences and situation. If I ask you "would you want to hold your pee for 8-9 hours, would you want to, if you could?).

Crating should be seen only as a temporary training tool. If you cannot trust your dog enough to gradually wean it away from the thing, you have lots more work to do. Dogs should earn your trust by being good when left alone. Constructing a fence in your yard is a huge mistake, the dog will bark uncontrollably.

I suggest having someone come in to let the dog out for some relief. This will make a huge difference in the way the dog looks at you, and there will no doubt that the dog is comfortable.

Good luck!

Anela

wvasko · 01-09-2008, 05:13 PM

The ONLY time we do not walk is if there is ice on the road since drivers cannot stop or maneuver and I would hate to be slid into (or be the cause of someone sliding off the road). This scenario is rare (twice so far this winter). Walking on ice is dangerous for my dog and for me anyhow, so it is best avoided.

Ok, (I assume) your dog does not drink or smoke, he is healthier by accident than most of us are on purpose. Missing days because of inclement weather is not going to hurt dog. Sometimes we beat our selves up for silly stuff. All else you are doing sounds like a dedicated caring owner. When I die and if I should be reincarnated as a dog. You got to be my new owner. Remember one important thing nobody can please everybody so don't sweat the idiots.

4dogs3cats · 01-09-2008, 05:20 PM

I personally do not think anything of crating a dog. My german shepherd stays in his crate while I am at work, and if he really hated it- he wouldn't voluntarilly go lay in his crate when we were watching TV. I could be wrong, but that dog LOVES his crate. It is his cave, his home, and he enjoys it in there. But every dog is different.

Elana55 · 01-10-2008, 07:47 AM

Hi wvasko.. Just thought you wouldlike to know I have heard that b4.. people want to be reborn and be an animal in my house. LOL.

One friend told me that my dog hit LOTTO when she got me as an owner.

I had a dairy farm for 20 years. I had a very high herd average and I made money. It all came down to really good care of the 72 cows.. the best feed and plenty of it along with fresh water and lots of attention to details.. pasture in the summer and groomning in the winter... . I was repaid with huge amounts of milk.. and I never used hormones or any artificial production enhancers.

And don't even GO to the cat care... THEY rule and the rest of the WORLD drools....

I put myself through college buying abused horses and retraining them to be reliable and selling them to good homes. I even wrote a column on animal issues for the local paper for awhile.

But, putting all that OT stuff aside, I was concerned about leaving this dog crated while I was at work knowing I could NOT go home at noon and let her out (I live 35 miles from work).

I was concerned about urinary infections as well, but I will play that by ear.. they can be miserable and I understand that holding urine can cause that problem (I had the issue in a show cat I had years ago).

beyond that I do my best. My animals live the life of Riley... Well waited on and served... so much for being my Dog's "master..."