Sleeping hours are irregular

LoveLilly · 10-25-2006, 11:53 AM

My 4 1/2 month old Papillon does very well at times sleeping through the night (10pm till 5.30am) and then needs to go out immediately at 5.30am. Periodically she barks around the 4am hour, we take her out quietly, she pees, then back into the crate till 5.30am. It was never a big deal b/c it was sporadic maybe 2 days at a time. Well all of a sudden its been 4 days in a row now and we are sooooo tired from getting up at 4am. We want to just leave her but b/c of her size and age it is amazing that she can even hold it overnight I think (from what I have read). So I am afraid that if we don't attend to her she will have an accident and it will impede the potty training progress we have made. Papillons are notorious for being difficult in this area. We did ignore her once a few weeks ago and she did pee on her bedding & we felt soooo bad so have refused to ignore due to that fear, but we are really getting run down and tired. Please help!!! Thanks.

LoveLilly · 10-25-2006, 11:53 AM

I did want to note, her schedule is very rigid & her water has always been taken away at 8pm & she always has dinner at 5.30pm. So we are stumped.

Curbside Prophet · 10-25-2006, 12:16 PM

Welcome to puppyhood!

I don't have anything encouraging to tell you...but have you tried waking her up in the middle of the night to take her out? If she whines at 4, wake her up at 3 to go outside. At least this way you won't have to wait until she stops whining before taking her out...because we don't want to respond to her whines. This will only encourage the behavior. But it sounds like you are doing everything that you can...good luck!

LoveLilly · 10-25-2006, 01:02 PM

Will getting up at say 3am like suggested put her on a new schedule? For instance, we take her out at 6pm every night after dinner. If you miss the 6pm she does not tell you, she just goes like clockwork. I am just afraid I will get her used to it. :-( But certainly don't want her to think that her whining gets our attention.

blackgavotte · 10-25-2006, 01:31 PM

Can you manage to stay up until 11 and take her out then, that way you will have, hopefully, an extra hour in the morning too. She is doing very well, and this too shall pass. But you are right to get up with her, you don't want her to start peeing in her bed and then get into that habit. Carry on !!

LoveLilly · 10-25-2006, 02:34 PM

maybe I will try to stay up till 10.30, but I have a hard time making it till 10!! :-). The 5.30am up time is the latest I can sleep till so that I can get ready and still give her 1 1/2 hours of run around time before I leave for work at 7am.

Curbside Prophet · 10-25-2006, 03:13 PM

Until her bladder has developed enough, you will have to continue the sleep time potty runs. And whether you take her out at 10:30 or 3, it will not develop into a necessary schedule so long as it is done on your terms. Since she is a puppy her bladder is telling her she needs to go, it's that simple. But as she gets older, she will develop more control, and both of you will have a chance to sleep through the night. Keep in mind, that it can take up to a year, and it would be perfectly normal. But you'll probably see a big difference in her control over the next few months.

blackgavotte · 10-25-2006, 03:21 PM

Okay, here's another way you might want to try. I always, always, used papertraining and exercise pens for my young puppies. Some people think that's confusing, I did not find I had any trouble over many years and many dogs. If you decide to give this a go, I would borrow or buy an exercise pen, leave her crate door open at night, and be sure there is a good layer of newspaper down, depending on where she is crated, maybe a layer of tarp or plastic or lino just under the ex pen and then the papers on that. I don't know if she will use the papers now or not, since she is used to going outside, and you may not want to start this. You could also investigate pee pads, many small dog breeders and owners have good luck with those. It could make life a lot easier for you and her, Just another thought for you to try. I also have a heck of a time staying up past 10, and I am not even working anymore. Its hard when you have your work schedule, etc, but sounds like you are really trying hard to balance it all out as best you can.

blackgavotte · 10-25-2006, 03:48 PM

just some more thoughts, about the whining. People are so worried about being sure they don't respond to whining since they think they will " train " a dog to whine for attention. This has not been my experience at all. If the puppy needs to pee, she will whine to call you. What else can she do? If she is not a nervous, constantly whining sort of dog, I personally would respond to her signal that she needs to go out and pee...Smaller breed dogs often seem to take a bit longer to potty train, not always but often. I believe its that higher metabolism a lot of them have. Is she in her crate all day long too, while you are at work?

Curbside Prophet · 10-25-2006, 05:13 PM

The idea is not to ignore a dog when it must go, the idea is to ignore the dog if it is whining to get attention. However, most people can not tell the difference between an attention whine, or a "I need to go" whine. Thus, my recommendation to take her out before she usually whines, to minimize the possibility that it's an attention whine. Dogs can learn to whine for attention with owner reinforcement, there is no doubt.

Dulce · 10-25-2006, 08:52 PM

You can't expect a dog to have a schedule. They go when they need to go. It's up to YOU to let your dog out. Especially a puppy. Puppies need to go out at least every 30 minutes (seriously!)

Take her out as often as you can. If you don't get a routine down, you never will, and she will go whereever/whenever she wants. That's not a good tihng for you or for the dog.

drfong · 10-25-2006, 09:06 PM

Just my 2cents. If the dog whines and you choose to take it out right then, take it straight out, let it go and right back in the crate. Then if there is any more whining, ignore it. It does go thru cycles of better and worse times until it gets to where they make it all night. You may cut the water alittle earlier and really exercise her before and during her last time out to encourage complete elimination. By 4 1/2 months the dog does not need to go out every 30 min. It sounds like your doing most things right. When they get older it becomes easier to start shortcutting, just make sure you are still giving her plenty of time to go before bed. I know I had a habit of rushing it with mine once they started getting better, don't. Good luck and keep up the good work.