[rosemaryninja]

I have two female beagles, one 9 and one 7. When we are out on walks, and we see other dogs walking, the 7 year-old one gets aggressive. There is no growling, snarling or baring of teeth, or any obvious signs of aggression, but when she first sees the dog she will stop and look at it intently. She will then start barking and pulling towards the dog. Pulling her back does not dissuade her. Occasionally, she will run backwards between my legs, as if trying to back away.

She only got this way a few months ago; before, she would pull towards the dog a bit, but relent when I continued walking in the same direction. She doesn't bark to dogs who are behind gates when we walk by other houses, and she never used to do this but I have started to notice her barking at dogs who she sees being walked when she is behind our gate.

After I have walked away from the other dog, or the other dog has gone by, she will continue to be quite agitated, often trying to turn back to go the direction of the other dog and just generally acting very excitable. She will continue to be this way for the rest of the walk.

I have tried snapping her leash (I walk her with a regular collar, no prong/choke/electric ones) just as she starts staring at the other dog, then walking in another direction calmly. She is fine with this but I can't keep changing direction everytime I meet another dog. I want her to be able to walk past another dog with no problem, something she used to be able to do until a couple of months ago.

What should I do about this problem? Any help at all is strongly appreciated.

[cascabel]

Originally Posted by rosemaryninja

I have tried snapping her leash (I walk her with a regular collar, no prong/choke/electric ones) just as she starts staring at the other dog, then walking in another direction calmly.

Try to look at this from the dog's perspective. Everytime she sees/looks at the other dog, she receives a punishment. This teaches her to associate other dogs with negative experiences. I think that doing this could actually increase her agression/fear of other dogs.

Instead, perhaps you could try associating other dogs with good things. When walking and you see another dog approaching, try to catch the dogs attention before the problem occurs. Use whatever your dog responds to...a "watch" command, their name, even high pitched happy sounds. When the dog glances at you reward her. Do whatever it takes to keep her attention (even though it may involve you looking silly/childish ) and continue rewarding her.

And just remember baby steps! Try to set up the situation where you can work on the problem on your terms. Can you enlist the help of a neighbor/friend with a dog? This way you can "rehearse" walking past other dogs, but in a controlled situation.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by cascabel

Try to look at this from the dog's perspective. Everytime she sees/looks at the other dog, she receives a punishment. This teaches her to associate other dogs with negative experiences. I think that doing this could actually increase her agression/fear of other dogs.

Instead, perhaps you could try associating other dogs with good things. When walking and you see another dog approaching, try to catch the dogs attention before the problem occurs. Use whatever your dog responds to...a "watch" command, their name, even high pitched happy sounds. When the dog glances at you reward her. Do whatever it takes to keep her attention (even though it may involve you looking silly/childish ) and continue rewarding her.

And just remember baby steps! Try to set up the situation where you can work on the problem on your terms. Can you enlist the help of a neighbor/friend with a dog? This way you can "rehearse" walking past other dogs, but in a controlled situation.

Thank you so much for the help.

Nothing gets her attention once she spots the other dog. I don't know how to describe it but I'm sure you can picture what I'm talking about - one front paw up, ears alert, just fixated on that other dog. The only thing that can break this fixation is me physically moving in another direction so she follows. If I do this before she reaches that level of excitement, she is okay with following me away, and I have praised her for it, but I can't be changing my direction everytime we meet another dog. However, once she gets into the second stage (the barking and tugging), even moving in the other direction doesn't help and she just keeps pulling back.

Should I bring treats along? Treats might distract her from the other dog before she got into "barking" mode. Another question: during this training process, would it be better for me to walk her alone? I walk her with my other older beagle (who is fine during walks and around other dogs) but I think it would be a bit messy trying to hang on to the other dog as well as satisfy her frustrations about why the younger beagle is getting treats and not her. However, the 7 year old is very attached to the older dog and I'm wondering if this will affect her negatively.

I really need some advice on how I can go from this "moving away from other dogs when we see them" stage, to the "walking past other dogs calmly" stage. It's so odd because she used to be able to do this fine until a few of months ago. I'm positive there are many steps and LOTS of time in between these stages, and I am willing to invest both the effort and the time, but I just need to know a plan that will work.

[cascabel]

Okay….my computer just freaked out and ate my post….so let’s try this again.


First off, I just want to say that she sounds like a lucky pup to have an owner willing to do what it takes to address her behavior. It’s good to see an owner invested in their pup.

I would definitely recommend bringing treats with you on every walk for a while. These should help in getting your dogs attention and provided an easy way for you to reward your pup for good behavior. You need really high value treats. These tend to be things like meatballs, chicken, beef, hot-dogs, etc…. However you need to find what is high value to your pup. Mine could care less about actual dog treats, but a little bit of meatball will do wonders. You just have to do some experimenting to find the high value treats and then bring along a mix.

The key with treats is to use tiny pieces (like pea size bits). Dogs don’t really understand size, but they definitely understand the number of treats. So 10 tiny bits of meatball means much more than a whole meatball.

I would also highly recommend checking out Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog by Patricia McConnell and Karen London. It’s just a 56 page book that runs like 10 dollars or less if you get it used, but I think it has a lot of great information in it. It has so much more information and examples than I can write online and it outlines exactly the type of info you seem to be looking for.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by cascabel

Okay….my computer just freaked out and ate my post….so let’s try this again.


First off, I just want to say that she sounds like a lucky pup to have an owner willing to do what it takes to address her behavior. It’s good to see an owner invested in their pup.

I would definitely recommend bringing treats with you on every walk for a while. These should help in getting your dogs attention and provided an easy way for you to reward your pup for good behavior. You need really high value treats. These tend to be things like meatballs, chicken, beef, hot-dogs, etc…. However you need to find what is high value to your pup. Mine could care less about actual dog treats, but a little bit of meatball will do wonders. You just have to do some experimenting to find the high value treats and then bring along a mix.

The key with treats is to use tiny pieces (like pea size bits). Dogs don’t really understand size, but they definitely understand the number of treats. So 10 tiny bits of meatball means much more than a whole meatball.

I would also highly recommend checking out Feisty Fido: Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog by Patricia McConnell and Karen London. It’s just a 56 page book that runs like 10 dollars or less if you get it used, but I think it has a lot of great information in it. It has so much more information and examples than I can write online and it outlines exactly the type of info you seem to be looking for.

Haha, my dog will probably take anything in the way of food! Never mind hot dogs, give her a piece of kibble and she will be happy. In fact, I might have trouble getting her to focus on anything else besides the treats during the rest of the walk.

Bringing along treats will definitely mean I have to leave the older one at home, though. The older one is a greedy thing (it's a miracle she's not overweight) and will probably get upset with all the treats and attention lavished on the younger beagle.

I'm gonna try and look for that book; I just looked up my library catalogue online and they don't have it, but I'll keep any eye out for it. I am gonna try the treats thing tomorrow, but it's difficult to be consistent because we don't always catch the neighbourhood dogs on their walks. I'll see if I can get my neighbours to help with "rehearsed situations" but this doesn't sound very plausible, since they're not particularly friendly.

[Darkmoon]

I know exactly what you mean. My dog Carter is a boxer/pit mix and 53lbs of pure muscle. When he sees another dog it’s exactly the same thing. He will run, dart, jump, anything he can to get to a dog, and then attack when in reach. Food doesn’t work on him either. Sadly, I'm had to resort to when he starts to do that saying "leave it' and keep pushing, dragging, and kneeing him lightly until he looks away then a I reward him like no tomorrow with pats and hugs. It is now to the point if he sees another dog, he looks away and gets so much love and kisses from me. It is not at 100%, not by far, but it’s a LOT better then it use to be. I would try what everyone else has done first, worse comes to worse, this is an idea for you.

[Dutchie]

Well, each dog is different. It's good that you don't use the prong collars, some dogs do associate nagative recaction from you with the object they are focusing on. Some dogs do other don't. I would still use a leash correction. I don't pull up, but instead to the side towards me. A quick tug and release. I sometimes need to do a few for her to realize "ohh I'm not suppose to act like a maniac". It is enough to break my dogs concentration. I have had luck with stopping and making my dog watch the other dog. Even if if takes a while for her to get ahold of herself. I know what houses have tied dogs or invisible fencing. I also move to the side and hold her collar and wait for others with dogs to pass. I use "no" or "leave it" and sometimes with a leash correction. When she does a good job remaining poliet I give her lots of praise. When I begin to continue on the walk I repeat "leave it". Because mine turns around to check out the dog too.

I would walk her alone and work out the issue, she should be fine w/o him. She might act out more when he is around. Maybe she's thinking... she has her brother as backup... j/k
Which one of your 2 dogs is submissive to the other?

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by Dutchie

Well, each dog is different. It's good that you don't use the prong collars, some dogs do associate nagative recaction from you with the object they are focusing on. Some dogs do other don't. I would still use a leash correction. I don't pull up, but instead to the side towards me. A quick tug and release. I sometimes need to do a few for her to realize "ohh I'm not suppose to act like a maniac". It is enough to break my dogs concentration. I have had luck with stopping and making my dog watch the other dog. Even if if takes a while for her to get ahold of herself. I know what houses have tied dogs or invisible fencing. I also move to the side and hold her collar and wait for others with dogs to pass. I use "no" or "leave it" and sometimes with a leash correction. When she does a good job remaining poliet I give her lots of praise. When I begin to continue on the walk I repeat "leave it". Because mine turns around to check out the dog too.

I would walk her alone and work out the issue, she should be fine w/o him. She might act out more when he is around. Maybe she's thinking... she has her brother as backup... j/k
Which one of your 2 dogs is submissive to the other?

The younger one is definitely submissive to the older one. The older one is actually her mother (bred by her mother's breeder) and although I'm not sure either of them remembers that, it's quite clear that to her, the older one is boss.

A leash correction is really still necessary for me. It's not that I'm forcefully dragging her away, but I just need to snap her out of that mode when she's just fixated on the dog. Nothing I say will work, although I haven't tried treats yet. Furthermore, it's not enough for me to do the leash correction and keep walking in the same direction - I need to do the leash correction, then turn and walk in another direction in which the dog is not within her line of sight at all.

I know exactly what you mean. My dog Carter is a boxer/pit mix and 53lbs of pure muscle. When he sees another dog it’s exactly the same thing. He will run, dart, jump, anything he can to get to a dog, and then attack when in reach. Food doesn’t work on him either. Sadly, I'm had to resort to when he starts to do that saying "leave it' and keep pushing, dragging, and kneeing him lightly until he looks away then a I reward him like no tomorrow with pats and hugs. It is now to the point if he sees another dog, he looks away and gets so much love and kisses from me. It is not at 100%, not by far, but it’s a LOT better then it use to be. I would try what everyone else has done first, worse comes to worse, this is an idea for you.

Thanks. My dog doesn't attack when she gets near, she just tugs till we get quite near and then backs behind me or behind my other dog. My older one will go ahead and sniff butt but she will remain behind me, sometimes she still barks. That's why I thought it might be an issue of fear. I think I might have to resort to your method too, because her behaviour is getting pretty bad. Thanks for the idea.

[rosemaryninja]

Okay, progress report. I brought the two dogs out together today, along with a small bag of kibble.

We walked for awhile and then spotted a woman walking what looked like a Great Dane about 50 metres ahead. My dog didn't notice at first, so I walked a little bit further in the direction of the Dane. My dog spotted the Dane, froze up, I gently tugged the leash in another direction. I managed to break her focus on the dog this time - love, cuddles, kibble.

We weren't so successful the next time, though...we were walking and just about to go home when along came Harry, the golden retriever next door. I couldn't turn away this time because we were at a dead end of the street. I had no choice but to remain where I was. My dog froze up staring at Harry. I tried to break her focus, but couldn't, and she ended up doing the whole bark and tug thing. I walked her past Harry, with her pulling back and yelling the whole time. When we were past Harry, she'd keep looking back, so I'd try to nudge her forward. When she looked forward, I'd give kibble, but after eating the kibble she'd just tug backwards again.

The post-Harry agitation continued. I brought the two dogs home and did a few sit-stay exercises with them (they sit and stay, I walk to the end of the garden, place pieces of kibble on the ground, and they get to come eat the kibble when I tell them to). After that I brought the younger dog out for awhile again, alone. She was much calmer than she had been during the end of the previous walk, but we didn't meet any other dogs.

[Love's_Sophie]

Perhaps you need to just not say anything, and change directions-don't jerk on the lead, just change directions, and wait for her to follow you; yes, she may pull back a few times, but she needs to learn that she must focus on you, not the other dog...when you get her to change directions with you, stop and reward her, give her a treat, praise her, and pet her.

If you stand there and let her bark and tug that only serves to make her anxiety worse; I don't think she is truly aggressive, but probably more like "look, Mom, another dog!!" She is a beagle afterall, so she is supposed to bark when she spots something! If you just turn and walk away, without jerking and trying to discipline her, you are not going to teach her that seeing other dogs is a 'bad' thing, you are only going to show her that "oh, it's okay to keep walking" She'll get it eventually...just don't keep letting her freeze up, you have to be 'stronger' than she is, just walk the other way and praise the heck out of her when she follows you!

[Alpha]

Okay, while if kibble is okay for your dog most of the time, in your post above, the second time it wasn't. So in your little bag of kibble you take with you, I would cut up one hot dog, or a slice of cheese for the moments that you really need high motivation.

It's hard to explain, and the word that's coming to mind is teasing.

To get her attention, put that yummy hot dog right by her nose and say, "oooOOOohhhh.." and AS SOON as she looks at you, pop it into her mouth. Don't make her reach for it, basically shove it in her face! lol

Repeat, repeat, repeat. With time, you can extend the amount of time that you ask for her focus. So going from immediately rewarding as soon as she looks at you, to counting to one, three, five etc etc.

If she breaks, go back to the last successful step.

Another thing to work on separately would be "watch me", at home. It's very simple, and comes in handy during times like these.

I agree with Sophie, this doesn't sound like aggression, it sounds like excitement, leading to possibly a bit of frusteration because she can't go say hello to the other dog, but don't quote me

Good luck!

[rosemaryninja]

Thanks all.

That's what's impeding my progress in training her - I don't know why she flies into these stages. I'm compelled to agree that it's not aggression, since anyone who has ever met her knows she's not the type that would harm a fly. (She does get annoyed when they land on her ears though.)

The thing is, if it IS aggression (I'm no behaviourist) then I'm worried that if I feed her treats when she starts freezing up and staring at other dogs, I might be encouraging this aggression. I tempt her with the treat till she looks away from the other dog, then I give it to her immediately. She tends to just eat the treat, then go back to the fixated stare. Should I just keep feeding her piece after piece so she has no time or concern for the other dog? I'm worried that feeding her in the middle of this anxious, fixated mode, even though I make her "break" her focus before I feed her, will teach her that I like this behaviour in her, and make the situation even worse.

[terryjeanne]

My sheltie does the same thing. Some walks are okay, and some are dreadful.

I try and get her attention on me before she sees the other dog and is able to react--ears perked, focused on other dog.

If I see the dog first, I tell my dog to watch me and treat. I'll ask for a sit, down, circle around me, watch me again. Sometimes if she does see the other dog (he's across the street) I will tell her to leave it and if she looks back at me she is rewarded for the leave it.

If she does start barking and lunging, I'll try and stand in front of her, lift lightly on the leash and tell her to settle, then ask for a sit. IF she sits,big reward.

too focused so I just keep walkingI try and keep myself relaxed-that's the hardest part. I used to tense up because I knew what was coming. Now I deliberatly loosen my grip slightly on the leash, yawn and talk to the dog in a super happy voice "oh that dog is out for a walk like you, how nice". Sometimes she looks at me like I'm an idiot but I'll treat her because she looked at me. ANd we keep on walking.

If a dog is coming towards us, I'll cross the street because there is no way my sheltie can pass a dog that close. We need lots of space.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by terryjeanne

My sheltie does the same thing. Some walks are okay, and some are dreadful.

I try and get her attention on me before she sees the other dog and is able to react--ears perked, focused on other dog.

If I see the dog first, I tell my dog to watch me and treat. I'll ask for a sit, down, circle around me, watch me again. Sometimes if she does see the other dog (he's across the street) I will tell her to leave it and if she looks back at me she is rewarded for the leave it.

If she does start barking and lunging, I'll try and stand in front of her, lift lightly on the leash and tell her to settle, then ask for a sit. IF she sits,big reward.

too focused so I just keep walkingI try and keep myself relaxed-that's the hardest part. I used to tense up because I knew what was coming. Now I deliberatly loosen my grip slightly on the leash, yawn and talk to the dog in a super happy voice "oh that dog is out for a walk like you, how nice". Sometimes she looks at me like I'm an idiot but I'll treat her because she looked at me. ANd we keep on walking.

If a dog is coming towards us, I'll cross the street because there is no way my sheltie can pass a dog that close. We need lots of space.

I have such a soft spot for shelties. When I was 8 and helping my parents pick a breed, I was so convinced that shelties were the PERFECT dog for our household because "they're like collies but small!" (I loved collies; Lassie stereotype. I really ate up the dog movies back then.) Anyway, I now know better, could never have kept up with the exercise and grooming requirements, but I am getting off-topic.

That describes me pretty well. When I see a dog the hardest thing is for me to remain calm. I start getting tense and nervous, thinking "what is she gonna do, what is she gonna do, oh no here it comes" and I can't help but think she is picking up that energy off me. Or that I am somehow communicating this through my grip on the leash, like tightening it or deliberately shortening the leash in preparation of what is coming.

The thing is that she does know "No" (my version of "leave it") but when she catches sight of that other dog, nothing I say can shift her attention. It will really take me dangling a meat cut above her nose before she can turn away. She is really stubborn.

[terryjeanne]

I don't know how, but for sure they can feel you become tense and nervous.
Try a couple of big yawns, shoulder circles (harder to tense up when you move your shoulders). I swear--I think about being tense and my dog can read my mind. I know it's me because she behaves better for my daughter.

My last sheltie was much calmer and docile. This one is a bundle of energy and smarter. she loves to learn and can chase a ball all day (as long as I want to stand there and throw it all day). The grooming is not nearly as bad as people think. Three or four times a year at the groomer for a couple of hours and I'll brush a couple times a week.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by terryjeanne

I don't know how, but for sure they can feel you become tense and nervous.
Try a couple of big yawns, shoulder circles (harder to tense up when you move your shoulders). I swear--I think about being tense and my dog can read my mind. I know it's me because she behaves better for my daughter.

My last sheltie was much calmer and docile. This one is a bundle of energy and smarter. she loves to learn and can chase a ball all day (as long as I want to stand there and throw it all day). The grooming is not nearly as bad as people think. Three or four times a year at the groomer for a couple of hours and I'll brush a couple times a week.

Yeah...but shelties definitely need more exercise than I can provide. I always think shelties should have a big yard to run around in, on top of looooong walks...I only have a moderate sized garden, and have enough trouble walking my dogs for more than 45 minutes every day.

Anyway, progress report:

Today my dog surprised me...we were setting off on our walk and just at the same time, my neighbour was stepping out of her gate to walk her own dog. Honey did not only ignore the dog instead of freezing up as per usual, but even failed to react when the dog came up to her for a sniff.

I praised and treated, but I think this may have been a fluke because she later went nuts again when she spotted another mutt being walked...

Oh well. Baby steps.

[rosemaryninja]

Sorry to bring up an old-ish thread, but I need to check something with you guys.

Well, my dog is not that much better, still repeating the same behaviour that she has had from the start. I was advised by a friend to place my hand over her snout when I see another dog approaching, so that she cannot bark. I'm hesitant to do this, so I need to check if it is okay first.

[Annamarie]

my pup was like this for a long time. he was so fearful he'd actually pee or poo on the floor if strangers approached him at first. that changed to him becoming defensive and threatening to nip, and then growling and trying to charge at other dogs.

a combination of things helped us. we got a head halter so that we could close his mouth with a gentle tug on the leash and make him look where we wanted him to look (at us, not the dog or stranger). we also used a spray bottle so that when his hair started standing up on end or he started growling he'd get a squirt in the face. this was the only thing that interrupted those fits that he would go into where you couldn't get his attention to make a correction. soon he started looking at us on his own to see if his response was appropriate for the situation, and when he did we gave him lots of praise and a peice of homemade beef jerky (made in our dehydrator with no spices, try it!). the other thing was that I realized that I was tensing up on the leash when we came up to strangers or dogs because i had been trained to anticipate that my dog was going to be a jerk so I was trying to prevent it. we found some people with friendly dogs and let him socialize with them, then started taking him to off leash dog parks daily.

he's pretty good with other dogs now, he still is a little unsure and will cry like a baby if a bigger dog takes him up on his offer to play chase (he doesn't like to be the one being chased, only the chaser) and plays a little rough, putting his front paws on their backs etc, but he's getting better. with people he's good with people he meets on a regular basis and if they ignore him he'll actually jump up to sniff them or sometimes crawl into their lap for a cuddle, but doesn't like people who babytalk to him or try to touch him.

i would say the biggest factor has been time though. when he hit 1 year old it was like a lightbulb went on. "oh i'm NOT supposed to be a jerk!". he still has a lot to learn (and so do we!) but at least we've made progress.

sorry that is my longwinded advice... try the headhalter and a spray bottle, and try to socialize your dog off leash and hang in there, your dog will have a lightbulb moment if you're persistant.

[terryjeanne]

I don't know that I would put my hand over her nose so she can't bark-that seems restrictive. Are you passing the dogs on the same side of the street?

My sheltie is very slowly improving---but we are still on the other side of the street. She just doesn't like dogs close to her out walking. Yet at obedience class she is great. We can walk around the other dogs and she is watching me.

Think calm when you are out walking. One time I talked to her in this super happy voice when she saw another person and dog. I hoped no one heard me but she sure looked at me when I tell her "oh look, there's somone out walking their puppy like us. Isn't that cute." I sound like an idiot, but a calm and happy idiot.

Don't tighten your fingers on the leash--they'll feel it. Get her focus on you and treat,treat,treat. I've gone past a dog and kept feeding the treats as long as she watched me.

Some days she does great---other days I wonder if she retained anything.

[rosemaryninja]

Okay, well, progress has been made.

I actually found out that Honey is fine with dogs SMALLER than her. It's big dogs that get her all worked up. She is okay with my neighbour's Bichon Frise but the retriever still makes her crazy.

Yesterday we were walking and I turned the corner of the street to find my neighbour and the retriever right in front of us, directly in our path. I was totally unprepared for it. Honey didn't start yelping right away, but she was actually quite calm. Spunky went up to the retriever to sniff; Honey started pulling backwards like she was afraid, then after awhile went up to sniff. She sniffed, Spunky sniffed, retriever sniffed, everything went fine...then when the retriever started walking away, and Honey couldn't follow, THEN she went out of it.

So, the "going nuts" part has been delayed, but I wasn't watching carefully enough to make sure it didn't happen at all...I think I was too amazed that she didn't self-implode when we turned the corner and came practically nose-to-nose with the other dog.