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09-05-2007, 03:40 PM
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#1 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
| Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP We rescued a Yorkie Cross dog who is extremely timid. Loud sounds scare him, he does not know any commands and will rarely come to anyone except myself, and he only comes to me sporatically, and only if there is no one in his sight except me.
He's not an agressive dog. He sleeps nicely in his kennel. he does not bark or whine. Taking him in a vehicle makes him sick.
I have been 'making' him come. If i tell him come and he's hiding under the table, i reach under, say "come" and tug him til he walks/drags out from under there. He is learning "sit", but this dog will not take a treat from anyone. he wont even take 'people' food from you. He turns his head or tries to run from you.
He will walk on a leash, but loud noises or seeing a 'stranger' next to him sets him off and he pulls and freaks out. I have taken to walking him with a halter instead of a lead directly on his collar as he chokes himself silly. He will walk nicely on the lead if I am alone.
Spitz will not make eye contact with anyone, if anyone looks at him he gets restless, runs under things etc. I can get him to sit quietly or lay quietly next to me as long as no one else comes too close.
I need to train this dog the usual commands, using some sort of reward system, but what?
He's a beautiful dog and I already love him to death. I just would like him to fit in with the rest of the family.
Please, if anyone out there has any ideas at all - I would be willing to try almost anything. |
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09-05-2007, 03:47 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,132
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP How long have you had this dog? If it's only be a couple of days, you're system overloading him. He needs a chance to adjust to his new environment and feel comfortable before you can expect him to feel confident with the new outside world.
Right now I'd work on getting him to trust me. I'd sit on the floor and let him come to me. Give him lots of praise and treats when he does. He needs alot of confidence building but you can't do everything immediately.
Be patient!  |
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09-05-2007, 04:08 PM
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#3 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP We got this dog in July- the 12th I think.
And i forgot to ad, he wont take treats or anything from anyone.
Last edited by brosen; 09-05-2007 at 04:13 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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09-05-2007, 04:24 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,132
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP What's his background? Where did you get him? Are treats something he's never had before? He's been to the vet to be checked out so there's no health issues right?
So it's been about 6 weeks? Ok, maybe you need to go back to step one. I still think, sorry if I'm wrong, you may have tried to push too much on him too soon. If he's that timid, it's going to take time for him to trust and be comfortable. The fact that you seem to be the person he responds to is good. Use it to your advantage. Work with him one on one. When you see he's more confident, start having others slowly become involved.
Maybe you just have to find a treat that's irresistable, like boiled chicken or hot dog. Cut it up reallly small. Once you make that first breakthrough, you'll know it.
You might also consult a behaviorist for help as they would be able to see the dog's reactions first hand. He/she could give you more distinct direction. |
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09-05-2007, 04:34 PM
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#5 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP he was a dog taken from a breeding mill with over 300 other dogs. i dont think he knows how to play, as far as we know he never had a name.
I dont know much else about him |
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09-05-2007, 04:54 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Stow, Oh
Posts: 126
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP It sounds like you may be pushing too much, too quick. Back up a few steps and let him get used to his surroundings. Learn his temperament (personality) to what he reacts to and how he reacts to it, ask yourself why? Read about dog behavior and educate yourself. What he is reacting to may be the way he was treated before. Especially if he had an overbearing, inconsistent, and hot headed owner. He needs time to re-associate. Dealing with fear takes a lot of patients and time you should let the dog over come his fears. I wouldn't tell him to come as often, and let him come to you more as he gets more comfortable to you. It is important to be a fair, confident, calm leader with fear. Take your time and be patient. Clicker or (marker training) when done properly works really well with fearful dogs. Set your rules and apply corrections or discipline calmly, fairly, and confidently. It is hard not to let your emotions get in the way. In the examples you explained and the fear and avoidance he is displaying something else needs to be tried to avoid him going into that state. Approach him different, change the tone of your voice, and whatever else you can think of. If you commit to something follow through with it if you tell him come, make it happen. You may want to use here instead of come to change his association. Try to make a game out of come. Use a long lead and have it on him, even in the house. Tell him come or here, if he doesn't respond tug on the leash wiggle a toy or wave a treat find out what motivates hims. Getting down to his level squatting down and patting the ground and excitedly say come or here sometimes works. Praise him and give a treat or toy he like when he does come. Take off in the opposite direction and excitedly say come or here he may chase you, if he does praise him and reward him. I've even laid down on the ground and made weird noises to get them to come. If he like to chase things you throw you can use his prey drive to your advantage.
When trying to train come or here you can also use two people with two long training leads. It's like monkey in the middle. The Monks of New Skete do this. Put each lead on his collar and spread out with him in the middle. One person will call him and coax him to come and uses the lead to coax also with a tug and when he comes praise and reward him. Then the other person does this. Go back and forth a few times each time you work with him. Try to work with him in 10 to 15 minute increments so it is fun for both of you. Start on a positive note and end on a positive note. Work with him on different things throughout the day with 10-15 minute sessions nd give him time to do his things. You may want to try keeping him on a leash around the house and have him follow you around while you are doing your normal thing. Tie the leash to your belt loop or waist. Teach him you are a good leader.
Since he is from a mill he may have inherited his problem. Consult a vet and a behviorists. You might be able to improve this, or you may not.
Last edited by Barhund Canine; 09-05-2007 at 05:04 PM.
Reason: Seen a post
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09-05-2007, 04:56 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 2,830
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP Pick up a copy of "The Cautious Canine" from Dogwise. It's by Patricia Mcconnell and it's great.
Secondly- no more tugging. If you have him some place you MUST catch him, let him drag a leash with no loop on the end (so he can't get caught.) But don't grab and tug on him. Reinforce heavily for ANY interaction with you (freeze dried liver or cut up cheese- pea-sized bits- are great for this). Otherwise? Give him time. Typically, it takes months for ex-puppy mill dogs to come around, and some take over a year. Most do, eventually, but the most important thing is to give them as much space as you can gradually and let them discover they're a dog.
I'm not a huge fan of the rescue (they buy dogs at auction, which I think perpetuates the problem, but that's a different issue) but PUppyMillRescue.com has a mailing list on yahoo that you might want to join and ask for advice on. |
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09-05-2007, 05:16 PM
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#8 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP thank you barhund- thats an excellent idea- i might do the pig in the middle thing. he wont come for any treats... it doesnt matter what it is. im still trying though
When we took this little guy, i honestly felt we were giving him a good home where he could live out his life loved and happy. I am going to accomplish this for him.
Last edited by brosen; 09-05-2007 at 05:38 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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09-05-2007, 06:31 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,400
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP Does he walk ok on a leash yet (sorry if I missed this)? If he does, tether him to you as you go about your business. Don't pay any particular attention to him during this time. He'll have to go where you do and this helps with the bonding process.
Put him on a very simple nilif (nothing in life is free) program and have him obey a simple command (i.e. sit) before he gets any attention or his food. Help him to obey if he doesn't know how yet. Also have basic obedience training sessions, 2 or 3 a day for 5-10 minutes each. At this stage keep everything very positive the way you would for a young puppy. Obedience training and nilif will help build his confidence both in you as his Alpha (leader) and in himself because he'll be secure in his pack position.
Once he's more accustomed to you and has some basic obedience skills, agility lessons would be a great confidence booster for him. But not yet. Right now they'd probably be too overwhelming. |
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09-05-2007, 06:52 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,132
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP If he's from a puppy mill, he's never, ever experienced the real world sights and sounds. That's why I said you were system overloading him. He probably had limited human contact and did not develop the human bond most puppies do. That also explains why he won't take treats - he has no idea what they are or why he should take them.
I think with time and patience, which is the key, you will bring him around and have a very happy puppy.
Again, a behaviorist may be very helpful to you. |
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09-05-2007, 07:54 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,267
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP The best thing you can do, is just be a good leader, a good parent. And as others have said let him come around.
The first thing that pops into my head when I hear scared or timid dog, is don't inadvertently reinforce or "provoke" (for lack of a better word) these behaviours.
For example (I do it all the time, and I shouldn't...  Roxy runs into a tree, it looks like it hurts. I cry out, "Roxy! Oh my goodness baby girl are you okay!?! Come here sweetie, let mommy check you out..." In reality, she's probably fine, but my nervous scared tone makes her think, "Oh God! What happened? Am I okay!?!??!" lol
So the idea is to help him over come his fears, but not to baby him. If you see a "brave" or non-timid behaviour, reward it! For example) Normally he slinks around his food dish unsure, but you see him charge up and dig in. Take a brief moment with a high quality treat like Dogstar said, freeze dried liver, cut up ham and praise! "Good boy! Your a hungry boy! Yay!" treat than let him get back to his food. That was just a super general example. So find confident behaviours throughout the day that he does HIMSELF and reward!
It's much easier, and in the long run dog's learn quicker, if we let them figure stuff out on their own. So instead of trying by coaxing and pulling and tugging to make him do a behaviour, just catch him doing it on his own and reward. It sounds so silly I know. But I'll put myself in a dog's shoes.
My owner is constantly nagging me to do something. I don't know what it is. I try but it gets boring after a while. I walk over to my bed and lie down. My owner runs over with a treat and she's praising me, giving me love!! What in the world for!!?! Hmmm, was it this..... Rewarding default behaviours makes a dog think about what they're being rewarded for. I'm thinking that perhaps this may help him get his mind off of his fears. Just an idea though. Instead of worrying all the time, he'll be thinking hard about what he just did to get that treat. As I said just an idea though.
As Reno said, a behaviourist or even an obedience trainer would be a great place to call up and ask for rates. While obedience trainers may not have the same education as behaviourists, working with your dog is a great way to build a strong bond with them.
Sometimes we have to put ourselves in their position. How would you feel in a new scary place, with scary stuff you've never smelt or seen? Add on a paranoid caretaker, give it a little time and your paranoid too! lol
Be calm and confident. No babying, but this by no means, means be strict.
Good luck  |
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09-05-2007, 11:38 PM
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#12 | | Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Elsa's House
Posts: 8,694
| Re: Rescued Dog- Very Timid - WE NEED HELP It's important to put shyness and fearfulness in perspective. Many people think of these as aberrant traits. On the contrary, shyness is a quite normal, necessary and extremely adaptive trait for all dogs. To give an example, the other day, my own dog, encountered a pair of speakers that had tied together for storage. It took her almost 5 minutes to pluck enough courage to even sniff the speakers, and then recoiled as if she had been stung by a bee. For the next half hour she vacillated between approaching and running away.
One common mistakes people make with fearful dogs is forcing the issue. That;s been mentioned many times here, and with good reason. The dog must be allowed to approach visitors and strangers in its own good time. If you force the issue, the dog may feel compelled to defend itself. Just give the dog plenty of time to play its own game of hide and peek. And for as much as you want to, do not force your dog from its hiding place. If you call the dog and it leaves its hiding place but then is scared again, not only will this reinforce the dog's conviction that is should have remained in hiding but also it will begin to destroy the dog's confidence in you. If effect, you will have punished the dog for coming. This is not a good training practice.
Another common mistake people make is to reinforce shy and fearful behavior. Alpha mentioned babying the dog. You may be well intentioned if you talk to your dog soothingly while its fearful but you actually can end up doing the opposite and unwittingly encourage the dog to be more shy. The dog can learn that it can gain your attention by being fearful. And the first principle of treatment is to avoid making matters worse. Therefore, ignore the dog and be sensitive to when the dog is frightened.
Still another common mistake is is to ignore or reinforce defensive behavior. I know of shy dogs reacting defensively when approached by unfamiliar people. Many will growl, bare teeth, snap, or bite. These behaviors can't be allowed or ignored. Acting aggresively towards humans should never be allowed. Just because the dog is shy is not an excuse. The dog must be instantly and effectively reprimanded for the behavior. Otherwise, growling develops into snarling, and snarling into biting. And since your dog trusts you the most, only you can reprimand the dog, and I suggest you do so with a simple NO!, and be quick to praise the dog for ceasing the behavior. You've mentioned that your dog isn't aggressive but I point this out in the event she should show any aggression in the future. Because a dog that is allowed to build up aggression to the point it bites, seldom live very long lives.
So, what should you look for? I would look to reward your dog approaching you. I would reward your dog making contact with you. I would reward your dog for approaching when called. I would reward when a person is allowed to make contact with your dog. I would reward when a person approaches your dog and makes contact with them. I would reward handling your dog. I would reward roughhousing and restraints of your dog. And I'd definitely reward if strangers are allowed to handle your dog.
All these things should happen naturally and in their own time. Therefore, I'd have no expectations, and ignore all fearful behavior otherwise. There are no fixed rules for confidence building exercises. To an extent, they must be played by ear. For example, if the neighbor comes over and your dog runs and hides under the table, there's no point in keeping the neighbor around to offer treats. It may take several visits by the guest for your dog to not feel threatened.
It takes a big person to take on a challenge like this, and I admire the people that do. Good luck, and please report back to us on your dog's progress. |
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