I am completely at a loss.....

EasternCanuck · 08-19-2007, 08:57 AM

My 10 month old toy poodle was, I thought, house trained. We got him at 5 months and he has done very well in the toilet training area. He can go the entire time we are out at work, or any other reason, without making a mess in the kitchen provided he did his business before we went out. He can do 8-10 hours if he has to, no problem.

The problem is he now cannot do just 2 hours in the house while we're home! It's driving me crazy! He doesn't give indication that he wants to go out so I end up stepping in his mess pretty much every night for the past couple of weeks.

He is a very active little guy and loves to play and demands attention all the time. We ignore his attempts at attention at times and I swear he's making a mess on the floor out of spite. I know you'll say dogs aren't spiteful but I'm not so sure I agree with you. I think the peeing is a means of attention-getting, even though it is negative attention.

I have not been scolding him for his mess because I don't catch him in the act. However, this is a new tactic for me because we've always had dogs growing up and house training was never a problem the 'old school' way. I'm not used to these 'new school' ways of training my dog and I think that is half of the problem.

Any suggestions? Please? He's in his crate now, going nuts for being in there, and the noise is getting to me as well. Should I not be crating him for this because he'll see the crate as punishment? He sleeps in his crate at night.

Curbside Prophet · 08-19-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasternCanuck

I think the peeing is a means of attention-getting, even though it is negative attention.

Spite?...no. Stress?...yes. Some dogs do relieve themselves when they are stressed. And if you've given him attention in the past, but now you're not, it can be very confusing to the dog. So the dog will try harder and harder to get what he wants until he suffers through an extiction burst, and then move on, and hopefully not be as stressed when you ignore him. But until then, a behavior like relieving himself can almost be expected and isn't the result of spite, but rather the natural tendencies of dogs.

Quote:

Any suggestions? Please? He's in his crate now, going nuts for being in there, and the noise is getting to me as well. Should I not be crating him for this because he'll see the crate as punishment? He sleeps in his crate at night.

I would not use the crate as punishment. I would either have him settle on a mat wuth a stuffed Kong, or in the crate with the stuffed Kong. The dog doesn't know your agenda, therefore I thinks it's punitive to not give the dog an alternate activity like chewing on a Kong.

EasternCanuck · 08-19-2007, 08:20 PM

The problem, however, is that he will not chew the Kong in the crate. He won't even eat a treat. He is only interested in getting out of the crate.

I can give him a bone or Kong when he is looking for attention, but then isn't he going to assume that if he drives me nuts he will get a toy?

There is no where he can go to be quiet, other than the crate or the kitchen (we have a baby gate) but the kitchen is used to keep him secured during the day when we are out and the crate is used for sleeping.

I'm really not sure what to do. If we ignore him he will pee and if we give him attention he will never cease.

It's not that he used to get all kinds of attention and now he doesn't. He has always received ample attention and exercise, it's just that now, for some reason, he demands it.

Curbside Prophet · 08-19-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasternCanuck

The problem, however, is that he will not chew the Kong in the crate. He won't even eat a treat. He is only interested in getting out of the crate.

It's unfortunate that he's associated to the crate this way. Does the crate have a removable top? Perhaps if he felt less confined you could reintroduce him to the crate in a positive way, with the top off. But this would require him to have a long down-stay. How is his down-stay?

As for what you put inside of the Kong, you may need to have a special treat inside that he only gets if he's inside his kennel. I would try to find the foulest smelling treat you can find at the pet store, the stinkier the better.

Quote:

I can give him a bone or Kong when he is looking for attention, but then isn't he going to assume that if he drives me nuts he will get a toy?

No, because you're not going to give him the Kong for free. You're going to ask for an alternate behavior like laying down on a mat, or climbing into his kennel.

If you're not catching him in the act, umbilical cord him. You can still ignore him while he's tied to your waist, and he'll be close enough for you to catch him in the act. The attention seeking behavior you can work on as he ages...it will get easier, but the housetraining is more important to attend to now, IMO.

crazydays · 08-20-2007, 11:48 AM

I have a thought and I am not an expert....but I do have a puppy! I am thinking that the pup is crated while you are away and holds himself well. You come home let him out of the crate and he plays and hes happy---they always need to be let out more frequently when they are active. I think the 10 month old is doing well. My feeling is that you need to close off areas (with baby gates) of your house so you can keep a close eye. Continue to make sure pup gets outside for freq pee breaks. It is frustrating at times for us puppy trainer owners. Remember- when the pup is crated and sleeping while your gone, hes not producing the same amount of urine...probably not drinking.
Re- the crate... I don't think you will be reaching your long term objective if you put him in the crate when your at home. The pup will learn that the crate is bad and then you will have a problem when you go to work. The other thing- does he get a good outside walk or exercise period when you get home--they really need it.

terryjeanne · 08-20-2007, 05:37 PM

I might be way off base....but my last sheltie seemed difficult to train. He was fine in his crate while we were at work, but would have accidents when someone was home.

I figured he didn't know how to tell me he wanted out. So I tied a bell by the door and trained him to ring it every time we went out. It only took a week or two before he realized someone would come for him if he rang the bell.

briteday · 08-20-2007, 06:01 PM

First I would get him into the vet for an exam. He could have an infection or something else going on. Be sure to tell the vet of the change in his ways.

If he checks out fine then I would say you are having a little bit of adolescent behavior. I would go back to crating at night and when you are not home. When you are home tether the dog to you witha leash so he is never out of your sight.

Lastly, be sure he is getting enough exercise. Thirty minutes 2x/day is probably adequate for his needs. But you have to get him out of the house/yard so that he is mentally and physically stimulated by new things. Walk/jog/play fetch...do something active with him.

Renoman · 08-20-2007, 06:08 PM

I think everyone here is pretty much on the mark. Your pup can hold it 8-10 hours when your're at work and be fine because he has no choice. When you're home he needs to make more frequent trips outside simply because he does not have to hold it. My guys are the same way. When I'm at work they can wait all day, no problem. But, when I'm home, they're outside every hour or two.

Make it a routine to take him out at more frequent intervals, every hour if you have to. Don't forget, even negative attention is attention. He's alone all day, when you're home he needs the extra attention. You've established a routine for when you're not home, now establish a routine for when you are home, this has always worked for me. Above all else, don't use the crate as punishment. You can use it to establish your at home routine but never as punishment or as a way to avoid dealing with the behavior problems. It will come back to haunt you.

Does this make sense?

poodleholic · 08-21-2007, 03:17 AM

I have found Poodles (of all varieties) very easy to housetrain, even rescues. It sounds to me like your Poodle isn't clear on the house rules, and where to potty, or, that you are missing cues from your dog. Start over at potty training 101 while you are at home. Tethering works well, as does containment otherwise (w/x-pens or baby gates). You may be missing the famous Poodle Stare! This is the Poodle's version of: let me out I have to potty; feed me I'm hungry; I'm bored, let's go for a drive; how about a walk; and so on. My Standards will sit in front of me, and stare. It's my job to know what that particular stare means! LOL Most of the time I do, but when I'm not sure, I simply ask them by offering choices, and they let me know when I've said the right one by a quick turn or spin, and their goofy porpoise-mouth grins!

bluesbarby · 08-23-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briteday

First I would get him into the vet for an exam. He could have an infection or something else going on. Be sure to tell the vet of the change in his ways.

If he checks out fine then I would say you are having a little bit of adolescent behavior. I would go back to crating at night and when you are not home. When you are home tether the dog to you witha leash so he is never out of your sight.

Lastly, be sure he is getting enough exercise. Thirty minutes 2x/day is probably adequate for his needs. But you have to get him out of the house/yard so that he is mentally and physically stimulated by new things. Walk/jog/play fetch...do something active with him.

I really don't understand why the OP should take the dog to the vet? If the dog had a problem it would be having accidents when the OP was gone too.

007Dogs · 08-23-2007, 07:24 PM

Part of it might just be because the dog it now a teenager. Remember those years of being rebelous?? Just keep with regular potty training and keep taking him out every hour on the hour. Also with human teenagers, these things to pass.

EasternCanuck · 08-25-2007, 09:18 AM

Well, thank you to everyone who gave ideas, I truly appreciate it. My little guy seems to be responding.

This might sound odd but I think a lot of it had to do with my computer being in getting fixed and me not being in the computer room in the evenings. He lays under my chair when I am in there, or at my feet. Since I have not been in there it, I think, was driving him a little mad. Now that my computer is back and I am back in the computer room, all is well with the world. He is back to being calm, laying under my chair, and no longer messing in the house.

Change in routine bugged him that badly? Wow.

skelaki · 08-25-2007, 07:00 PM

She should have a vet check because it's possible the dog has medical condition such as a UTI or Kidney infection that could be contributing or causing the problem. Any time there's a change in behavior medical conditions should be eliminated first.

Great pyrenees mama · 08-25-2007, 09:38 PM

The only thing I can add, is that I have a 5 year old tiny toy poodle, and it was a real booger to house train her. T ook a couple of years, honestly, before I could completely trust her.

iluvsquirt · 08-25-2007, 10:41 PM

squirt was bad for awhile too. give him some more time. im sure he'll get better.

EasternCanuck · 08-26-2007, 09:17 AM

Thanks. He's got a real little attitude sometimes.

I'm certain there is nothing wrong with him medically.