First time in crate, feedback please

Cobalt · 08-13-2007, 06:29 PM

Mia has been sleeping in a crate next to my bed. She's gets up once and goes back down easily. She is 9 weeks, Tibetan Terrier.

This AM we put her in her identical downstairs crate and went to work. She had just gone potty and had toys etc. My two older girls were upstairs and knew what we were doing but she didn't know they were there. I left the radio on, gave her a kong with frozen peanut butter, didn't fuss and left with my husband.

The girls called saying she was crying and howling. I expected this. She would stop for a few minutes and start again. I told them to let her out the next time she was quiet for a few mins. So, she was in for 40 mins. When they took her out she kept whining for a few mins, she was pretty upset. She went to sleep on the floor on her bed by the girls and kept waking to make sure they were still there.

So, what should we do next? Crate her again tomorrow or give her more space and gate her in the kitchen with her crate/toys etc? I have to add that she jumps gates at only 5 lbs so we are going to double the gates.

I appreciate your help, I had a hard time listening to my babies cry and that's why they didn't sleep through the night until they were 2! On Septmeber 4, the girls will be back in college and Mia will be alone all day except for an hour at lunch when I come home.

Thank you!

Mayhemz · 08-13-2007, 07:19 PM

Way too complicated. Make sure the dog doesn't have any room to move in the crate. If it keeps making a ruckus give the crate a good rattle and yell "NOOOOOO!!!" reallly loud. If it continues then put it in your garage where you can't hear it anymore.

briteday · 08-13-2007, 07:26 PM

Well, if you want to spend the next two years, or more, providing constant human interaction with your dog, then continue as you are doing.

Otherwise, tough love is in order. A 9-week-old dog needs to be let out every 2 hours to potty and be out a bit. And this young of a pup should relaly not be left alone for a full day, until maybe 4 months of age. And only then if someone can come in midday for a potty break and walk. Sept 4th will be a bit early, but probably do-able. In the meanwhile, if the girls like the dog and know how to keep her entertained but also start some basic training, I would let them have the dog out whenever someone is home and keeping an eye on the dog. If they won't watch the dog continuously, then the dog needs to be crated. And your dog should be crated at night.

In addition to crating you need to be stimulating this dog physically and mentally. The pup needs time to play. Since the shot series is probably not finished I would limit this activity to only places that you know are free of stray or unvaccinated dogs. You may have to resort to your own backyard until the shot are finished around 4 months. But at that point all dogs need DAILY stimulation outside fo their own yard. Most dogs benefit from at least 30 minutes 2x/day of brisk walks/ jogging/ hard play. It will gratly help the issue of crating most of the day while you are at work.

Cobalt · 08-13-2007, 10:08 PM

Thanks. We are doing all of the socialization and the girls who are 19, 21 and 23 watch her constantly when she is out and about. She has met little kids, dogs, men, cats, cars, elevators etc.

If the crate isn't used as punishment, why would I ever hit the top of it?? That is the opposite of what I have read here. I am sure what works for one person might not work for another. For me, that won't work.

I will ask my question in just a few words...

Crate or in the kitchen?

Dakota Spirit · 08-13-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhemz

Way too complicated. Make sure the dog doesn't have any room to move in the crate. If it keeps making a ruckus give the crate a good rattle and yell "NOOOOOO!!!" reallly loud. If it continues then put it in your garage where you can't hear it anymore.

If you want your dog to hate its crate - sure. The crate is supposed to be a positive place where the dog WANTS to be and therefore should not be the source of punishment.

That being said, I think you might be taking things a little to fast, as briteday mentioned. Do you know about how long Mia is good for in her kennel before starting up? That would be a good base point to begin with. Throughout the day put her in the crate for that amount of time - always complete with toys and stimulation. Then SLOWLY increase the time as Mia becomes more accustom to being in the crate.

Also, when you go down to get Mia again praise her like crazy for being quite. Same goes for taking her down to be placed in the crate. Lots of praise - make it a positive experience.

Plus remember how young she is and the fact that she needs to relieve herself more then a grown dog does. So for this time at least, she may need more breaks.

Cobalt · 08-13-2007, 10:47 PM

Sounds like a plan, thanks so much!

We will practice time in the crate throughout the day. We have 3 weeks until she has to be in while we are at work and never for more than 4 hours.

I appreciate the help and so does Mia.

Dakota, one quick question.

If we put her in the crate and she is quiet for say 3 mins and then starts to whine or bark so we take her out right away? Do we take her out quietly and not praise if she is barking? Or, do we put her in and if she whines/barks let her stay in until she is quiet and then praise?

Sorry, that was three questions.

Thanks!

briteday · 08-14-2007, 12:25 AM

If she whines after being put in the crate...sometimes it helps if you put the crate in your bedroom at night where she can see someone. It also helps sometimes to put a worn t-shirt so that she has the scent of someone in the house with her. I ahve also used old clean bath towels in crates for comfort and easy clean up, just in case. Easy enough to collect for the wash if you have to change it in the middle of the night. If you don't have a ready suppy of these things try a thrift store where you can get them cheap.

Above all, remember this is just like a little baby in the first few weeks at home. You can't expect to be sleeping thru the night. You need to set an alarm to get up every two hours to let her out. Pick up the water bowl 2 hours before bedtime will help get the night time routine going. Take her out, don't even turn on the lights, no talking, no cuddling, out to do business then right back into the crate, repeat every two hours. 2 months old=2 hours, 3 months old= 3 hours, etc, until about 6 months old when they can usually hold it for 6-8 hours at night.

During the day, my preference would be to let her stay out of the crate and socialize as long as someone is watching her. If the girls go out to shop or get tied up on the phone and can't watch the dog then she can be crated. These short bursts of crating during the day will help her get ready for when she is in there while you are at work next month. Right now she is just so young to be cooped up too much in the crate. She really still should be with her litter until 12 weeks old.

Be sure that someone lets her out during the day every two hours. And praise like crazy, like she just won Westminster, lots of the yummiest treats when she does the business outside. And someone must watch her at all times when she is inside. I would prefer to see a pup gated off in a kitchen or bath during the day when there are things to be done around the house and there is someone home but not able to watch the pup. Otherwise you can crate her during those times as well.

Also, feeding on a 3x/day schedule will help to establish an elimination pattern. If everyone in the house would cooperate, it would be good to keep a notebook near the door or such. Note what time she was fed (try to keep it fairly regular) and then what time she was successful outside as well as any accidents inside. After a few days you will see a pattern to her habits. This will be a work in progress and continue to change as she gets older, but you will most certainly always see a pattern develop.

RonE · 08-14-2007, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhemz

Way too complicated. Make sure the dog doesn't have any room to move in the crate. If it keeps making a ruckus give the crate a good rattle and yell "NOOOOOO!!!" reallly loud. If it continues then put it in your garage where you can't hear it anymore.

I'm beginning to strongly suspect that you're here trolling for controversy.

I hope I'm wrong, though I guess that would be preferable to believing that your treat your dogs this way.

Cobalt · 08-14-2007, 07:19 AM

Good morning! I came here fast to check the site out.

Mia sleeps just fine in her crate and only wakes once.

Her problem is not the crate I have discovered, it's being alone. If we leave the kitchen and she is gated in, she barks and whines.

So it appears that she doesn't need help with the crate, she needs help with separation anxiety.

Tomorrow we go to her first traning class. The first one is private and then she joins the group so we'll be able to ask the trainer for help too. They teach positive methods btw.

If anyone has advice for separation anxiety, thanks. I am sure the plan will be to leave her for short periods and then praise and increase.

briteday · 08-14-2007, 01:02 PM

It's not unusual, or a problem IMO, that a 9 week old pup doesn't want to be left alone. In a perfect world this pup would still be with the litter and mom. This pup just needs attention since it is so young.

I'd be a bit concerned about taking this young of a pup to a place where other dogs congregate since she hasn't had a full series of shots. Some pups don't even start responding to vaccinations (able to produce immunity) until 12-16 weeks of age. That's why vets do a series of shots. Puppies are extremely susceptible to picking up parvo and other viruses from the environment. Someone could have a pup from a shelter or breeder that is not showing symptoms yet but could be infected. I wouldn't take a pup at that age any place other than the vet (and don't put them on the floor) and my own back yard. I guess I'd just be concerned with a dog as young as yours.

BoxMeIn21 · 08-14-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhemz

Way too complicated. Make sure the dog doesn't have any room to move in the crate. If it keeps making a ruckus give the crate a good rattle and yell "NOOOOOO!!!" reallly loud. If it continues then put it in your garage where you can't hear it anymore.

Yeah...I smell a troll.

Cobalt · 08-14-2007, 06:47 PM

Our vet said it was okay because she had parvo at 6 and 8 weeks and distemper at 8 weeks. She is getting kennel cough on Thursday and then her first class with other dogs is Sunday.

I thought it critical for her to socialize but if I should wait until 12 weeks I will.

Thanks for your comments about the crate and sep. anxiety. She is young and she is never really alone right now as the girls are home. They did put her in the crate a few times today when they were in the room and she did fine. We will have them leave the room for a bit next.