Confused about the crate

Fergie07 · 07-18-2007, 05:13 PM

When I first got my 5 month old shih tzu mix about three weeks ago, I was told she is crate trained. I have found that this means she will not go potty in her crate, but she will go in the house. She sometimes stands near the back door, but if I take my eyes off her for one second (which isn't often), she is peeing or pooping somewhere. She has about one or two accidents each day.

I have done some reading on crate training, but there are so many different opinions on the best way to do it. I would like to describe what I am doing and get some feedback to see how I can improve. She stays in the crate at night. I take her outside immediately in the morning. If she goes, she can stay out of the crate, if she doesn't, she goes back in and we continue trying in 15 minute intervals. If I have to leave for a while, she goes in the crate. I always try to take her outside first, but she usually doesn't go. When I get home, I take her outside... if she goes she stays out, if she doesn't she goes back in the crate and we keep trying. Once she is out, I take her outside every 2 hours or when she circles by the back door. The only time she is surely going to go potty is if she is circling. Today is the first poopy accident she has had in about 5 days. I feel like I am doing everything I can, but I have never done it before so I could be doing it all wrong. Any suggestions?

I forgot to mention that she gets a small treat when she goes. She responds well to that!

Durbkat · 07-18-2007, 06:11 PM

When you can't supervise the dog, going somewhere, put it in the crate. If the dog doesn't go outside, stay outside till it does.

Mdawn · 07-18-2007, 06:14 PM

I have a 4 1/2 month old English Mastiff who is basically already house trained. This is what I did and maybe it can help you.
I put him on a feeding schedule. He gets fed in the morning and at night. This way I can predict when he will have to go. I didn't allow free access to water until he started giving indications consistently that he needed to go out. When I gave him water I'd take him outside about 20 - 30 minutes after. Before when he had still had accident's; I'd keep him on a leash tied at my waist if I had things to do around the house; such as dishes or whatever. This is so that he can't wander off and use the bathroom without me seeing; thus I wouldn't be able to correct him.
Personally, what I'd change if it were me in your case is putting her back in the crate if she doesn't use the bathroom. I think, and others may have different opinions, that they have to have the chance to have an accident. So when they start to use the bathroom in the house, you can interrupt and correct them. Otherwise, it might be difficult for them to learn correct behavior. This applies to other things as well. For example, my Mastiff is still teething. He wants to chew on EVERYTHING, such as shoes. I don't pick the shoes up and put them where he can't get them. I leave them where they are and when he goes for them, I say "Ah Ah" and replace with a proper toy for him to chew on. He has to learn what is acceptable and what isn't and if I put the shoes up, he wouldn't learn that he CAN'T chew on them. With my Mastiff, we used a can with pennies in it. When he'd start to pee or poo in the house, we'd throw the can on the floor next to him. He'd get startled and we'd rush him outside and praise, praise, praise after he went potty outside. I know some breeds are harder than others to house train, so maybe someone else would have info on that, with some tips. I don't know very much about smaller breed dogs...The smallest dog I have is a Basset mix. LOL

Hope this helps and good luck!!

TheChinClique · 07-18-2007, 06:26 PM

Housebreaking a small dog is extremely hard to do in most cases. Especially toy breeds. I agree with Mdawn about the feeding schedule. I feed Henry at 7AM and then again at 5PM. He generally has 3-5 poos per day, and two of them are always directly after he eats. Now with the other ones, it's tricky. You need to start learning the body language of your dog. Once you do, it'll be really easy to know when you should take her out. Watch her at ALL times and when you need to do something, put her in the crate. When she does a poo outside praise her and give her a treat, and when she does one inside clean it up and ignore her. Don't tell her "no" or get angry about it...and especially don't put her in the crate for punishment because then she'll learn to hate her crate. Just clean it up and kind of give her the cold shoulder for a bit...I have learned through five dogs that this is the most effective method. I am now on my first toy breed dog, a Japanese Chin and he is four months old and ALMOST housebroken. He has about one accident every other day. He has never peed in the house. Hopefully you will be rid of the problems you're having with her soon...it's never fun dealing with poo on your floor

.

Mdawn · 07-18-2007, 06:38 PM

I just have to say that TheChinClique made a good point about learning your dogs body language. My Lab scratches at the door when he needs to go out, my Mastiff paces and whines when he needs too.

Durbkat · 07-18-2007, 06:40 PM

Most dogs will kind of arch their back to their butt is facing the ground, thats what snoopy dogs. And when he pee's he stretches his legs out and looks up.

chooey13 · 07-18-2007, 08:10 PM

It's funny that you mention a shitzu becuase I actually just recently stumbled on this article last week on shitzu crate training I hope that this helps you out. Here is the link

-Jordan

Fergie07 · 07-18-2007, 08:11 PM

So am I not doing the right thing by putting her back in the crate when she doesn't go? I don't scold her, I just put her back in. When she does go, we cheer and hug and get a treat. How will I know when I don't need the leash attached to my waist anymore? I am scared to try that, but I guess it is better than what I have now!

Durbkat · 07-18-2007, 08:24 PM

Yea, putting her back in the crate is good, misread your post.

Mdawn · 07-18-2007, 11:41 PM

I attached my Mastiff's leash to my waist when I needed to do housework or whatever outside the living room. Otherwise, I gated him in the living room while I watched T.V. or something in there. When he started pacing between the gates that block the upstairs and the kitchen when he needed to go out, then I knew we were on the right track. I little by little let him have more free rein in the house and let him off leash. He still isn't allowed for very long in room alone, simply because he is too young and gets into everything. I didn't find having him leashed to me scary, just annoying because he was always jerking on the leash. However, it has the added feature of helping them adjust to the leash if they aren't leash trained.

I use his crate for times that I can't watch him, when I'm not home, taking a shower, doing yard work, etc. And of course, at bedtime. It's just a safe space for him to go when I'm not around or can't pay attention to him 100%. Of course, it's useful for teaching them to hold their bladder. However, if you think about it, the reason they hold their bladder in the crate is because they don't want to mess where they are confined. So when they are let out and have free rein, of course they are still going to do it inside the house because they don't have to sleep next to it. The crate doesn't teach them the appropriate place to go, which is outside. That's why I say, not to put her back in the crate when she doesn't go outside because if you catch her in the act of using the bathroom in the house and interrupt the behavior and rush her outside, eventually she's going to be like, "Oh, THIS is where I'm supposed to go". A crate can't teach her that. Also, taking her outside very frequently is essential like that article stated that someone linked. Just be patient and consistent.

Good Luck!!!

bluesbarby · 07-19-2007, 03:27 PM

Riley is half shih tzu. I did what you are doing with a couple of additions.
1. Fed on a schedule
2. Ke;t journal of when he eats(including treats), drinks, poops and pees.
Riley only pooped twice a day, approx 10 hours after he eats. You can set a clock by him. The older he gets the longer his time out of the crate. If you're going to be distracted at all then tether him to you or put him in his crate.
So once I was potty trained, then I taught him how to ring a bell and eventually he figured out that if he needed to go he should ring the bell. Of course he rings the bell when he wants to go outside to play too. He's 8 months old and is left alone during the day for 4/5 hours, 3 days a week. I no longer crate him he has free run of the kitchen and dining rooms. He knows to hold it until someone is home to answer his bell. We've had no accidents in I forget how long now. Good luck Have patience

shrew · 07-22-2007, 12:42 PM

My 9 week old border collie X gsd so far has had 4 accidents inside and she did 2 poos and 1 wee in her place outside. She howls most of the time even when she does not need to go. She pees as soon as we put her back in the crate after spending 10- 15 mins outside. Dont know what to do.

How long can it take before she gets the right idea?

Fergie07 · 07-22-2007, 08:21 PM

I am really not sure. I am pretty new to dog ownership. If you post this question as a new thread, you will probably get more responses.

Mdawn · 07-23-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrew

My 9 week old border collie X gsd so far has had 4 accidents inside and she did 2 poos and 1 wee in her place outside. She howls most of the time even when she does not need to go. She pees as soon as we put her back in the crate after spending 10- 15 mins outside. Dont know what to do.

How long can it take before she gets the right idea?

Something that I think new dog owners need to understand is that puppies ARE going to have accidents in your house. Especially, young puppies. A 9 wk old puppy cannot hold his or her bladder. They don't have the muscle control yet. The very best thing to do is to take the dog outside to pee and poo frequently, like every hour. The length of time it takes to house train a dog varies. A matter of weeks to a matter of months. I don't know if your puppy is howling while inside the crate and this is what you mean? If so, puppies will do that. Eventually, they will get used to their crate.

The best thing to do, in my experience concerning house training is to:
Feed on a schedule, then you will know when your dog will need to go out.
Be patient. Mistakes are going to happen while they are learning. It's just the way it is with puppies.