[peace36]

Well I hate to admit it but I really have not done any training with my to dogs. A 1 yr old shih-tzu and a 10 month old malti-poo.

I would like to start. I thought the idea of the clicker training sounded like a method I would like to use. I read over NILF and Zen. I was wondering what commands should I start with should I do the Zen or do I start by teaching basic commands like sit and stay before I do the NILF or Zen well I guess for the NILF they all ready need to know "sit"


I plan to start as soon as I figure out the best way to start and get my clicker

Oh yeah one more thing should I work with them seperatley like in different rooms or is there a way to teach them both at once?


Thanks

[blackrose]

Nothing In Life Is Free is a type of training that is used to instill better behavior in your dog. I use this loosely through out the day with my dogs. Chloe sits and stays before she gets to eat, she sits or downs to get me to throw the ball, the dogs sit and stay calmly or they don't get out of their kennel, they sit and stay before being allowed to get in or out of the car, etc.
You don't really "use" it and then "discard" it later. It is something that I actually do without thinking about it, like making a child say please before giving them the cookie. It's just good manners. I use it to teach commands. Chloe had no idea what stay ment, but she figured it out in a hurry when she got up to charge the food bowl and it was quickly picked back up.

I don't know what Zen is, so I can't tell you anything about that.

You can start teaching basic commands while using the NILIF "program" to reinforce the commands.

When you first start teaching them commands, it is best to work with them seperately. Otherwise your attention will be devided and your dogs will be confused. Once they are excelling in their commands, you can refresh their memories, so to speak, at the same time. It only gets difficult then when one disobeys. Although I imagine since you are clicker training, training two dogs at once would be royally confusing to the dogs and to you as you wouldn't be able to click two different behaviors coming from two different dogs at the same time.

[Curbside Prophet]

I would start building the relationship up first. you may already have a wonderful relationship, but now that you want to focus on some training, you'll want to set it so that it's not forced on the dog. So I would start with these two things right away - 1) hand feed the dog (you can practice "take it" and "leave it") 2) reward the dog for all good behaviors that they offer on their own. An example of the second would be, if you sat down to watch tv and your dogs laid down at your feet. Reward that, and anything else you agree with as good behavior, and ignoring any behaviors that you don't agree with. Doing these two things for a while I bleieve will set a foundation for all of you to succeed later, and it fits in nicely with NILIF and is easy to do.

I agree with black that you can also start teaching basic obedience (even if the dogs already know some commands, and to work with the dogs separately. I guess the next question should be, do you know how to lure your dog into a sit or a down?

I would hold off on the clicker for now, and chose a verbal bridge word like "yes". Only because the less things you have to control, the easier it will be for you to work out the timing. Do you know the sequence of the command(given only 1 time)-lure-bridge word-treat? Well, I just gave it to you, but are you familiar the lure-reward concept?

[peace36]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I.

. I guess the next question should be, do you know how to lure your dog into a sit or a down?

I would hold off on the clicker for now, and chose a verbal bridge word like "yes". Only because the less things you have to control, the easier it will be for you to work out the timing. Do you know the sequence of the command(given only 1 time)-lure-bridge word-treat? Well, I just gave it to you, but are you familiar the lure-reward concept?

After I started thinking about the clicker I started thinking I would rather not use it.

Yes, I know how to get them (lure) them to sit and down. I have not heard of the lure-bridge-reward concept though I am guessing maybe that is what I am doing by luring them into sit position with the treat.

So should I start their training out with the sit command then the down or is there something before that I should do?

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by peace36

After I started thinking about the clicker I started thinking I would rather not use it.

I personally don't use a clicker unless I'm trying train a behavior that has a lot of sequences to it, and the positions aren't easily lurable. For example, I taught Elsa how to climb a ladder a few steps just by clicking any small advances up the ladder, and repeating the process over and over. But for basic commands a bridge word works just as well.

Yes, I know how to get them (lure) them to sit and down. I have not heard of the lure-bridge-reward concept though I am guessing maybe that is what I am doing by luring them into sit position with the treat.

Ok, so simply for review, and when teaching sit, the steps would be as follows:
1) Give the cue, "sit". You may choose to not add a cue right away, at least until your dog is reliable with the luring motion, and then add a cue later.
2) Lure the dog into a sit.
3) As the dogs butt starts to head for the ground, say the bridge word "yes" or any positive word that's short and sweet, just keep it the same word.
4) Immediately after saying the bridge word, give the dog the treat.
5) Give a lot more praise for noticable improvements.

This is where you'll begin with training behaviors. Later on when your dog is reliable with both a visual and a verbal cue, you'll want to fade out the food treats, but for now focus on the steps.

So should I start their training out with the sit command then the down or is there something before that I should do?

Starting with sit is a good place to start, then teaching down, then teaching stand. This seems to be the natural progression for the cues. And when your dog starts to know them well in order, you'll want to slowly add distractions, give th cues on different surfaces (you want sit on concrete to mean the same when you ask for sit on carpet). And then when you've got the sit-down-stand sequence happenng everywhere, then you'll want to teach them out of order, down-sit-stand or sit-stand-down.

But, don't let me complicate things. Work on the steps I gave you above, and yes, you can start with sit. If your dog is sitting 8 out of ten times when you start giving the cue "sit", add on the next behavior "down".

[peace36]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

But, don't let me complicate things. Work on the steps I gave you above, and yes, you can start with sit. If your dog is sitting 8 out of ten times when you start giving the cue "sit", add on the next behavior "down".

Ok, Thanks I will start with that.

[threedognite]

1) Give the cue, "sit". You may choose to not add a cue right away, at least until your dog is reliable with the luring motion, and then add a cue later.

I disagree with giving the cue first but that's your choice.
When teaching "Sit", I like to have treat in hand, let the dog follow my hand over his head and he will naturally sit most of the time. When his butt is planted on the floor, THEN I say "Sit".
When I begin training, I start with teaching the dog to focus on me. If I am working with a puppy, I will teach it to respond to it's name. Believe it nor not, some new dog owners haven't taught their dog to respond to it's name yet.
Which ever praise word you decide to use, make sure you stick with that particular word. You don't want to confuse your dog with too many praise words. Make sure you give your dog a release word also so he knows when the session has ended. You can use, "Okay".

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by threedognite

I disagree with giving the cue first but that's your choice.

I give it as an option because some people need to think about what they are doing. But I actually agree with you this time. I'd rather shape the behavior first. And name recall is another good place to start too, if the dog doesn't already recall to its name.