I met a lady with a cute dog today, at first I thought the dog was a tan staffy as I hadnt seen the face and I asked her if it was, as soon as Id asked though I realised she was a pit bull, she was a red nose pit, although she was quite small like a pup. The lady said she was a staffy/ kelpie cross though and I smiled and thought to myself, yeah right hehe. She was definately a pit bull, I wonder if she was ashamed to say so? The dog was gorgeous with a lovely nature and I stayed and patted her for a while, I wanted to take her with me she was that nice. I didnt mention that I thought she was actually a pit bull, however Im 99% certain she was, I just wonder whether she was told she had gotten a kelpie/staffy cross or whether she just didnt like to say she had a pitbull.
I bet she knew what she had! I ran into a couple years ago and loved the pup they had with them so I told them I loved their Pit, they right away said no it's a Staff. I with my big mouth said no it is a Pit, they then said yes but they didn't want people to know because they are afraid of Pits.
I've got a red nose pit and a black nosed rott/dobe cross
It's pretty common for people to deny pitbulls, especially if they are friendly animals. I don't really blame them to be honest. Of course that is if she knew and was denying it, or didn't know at all.
People shy away from Hades when we walk around town, by law he has to wear a muzzle and quite often I get dirty looks for allowing my young niece and nephew to walk the dogs. (Mind you they are complete angels when the kids are on the other end of the leash, nevermind me... ROFL)
When looking at a mixed breed, how do you tell the difference between staff in the mixture or pit in the mixture?
I think the point of this forum was that people are afraid to admit to having a Pit. The last thing I am looking for is to argue with people on here I enjoy this forum!
She was definately a pit bull, I wonder if she was ashamed to say so? The dog was gorgeous with a lovely nature and I stayed and patted her for a while, I wanted to take her with me she was that nice.
I can't blame her especially with the way so many malign pit bulls these days. I've seen a few bad eggs but the majority have been great dogs with a wonderful personality.
I think the point of this forum was that people are afraid to admit to having a Pit. The last thing I am looking for is to argue with people on here I enjoy this forum!
I'm sorry, I wasn't arguing. I was asking a sincere question. When you look at a mix, how can you tell the difference between a staff mix and a pit mix? To me, they look pretty much the same, mostly evidenced by the broad head.
I met a lady with a cute dog today, at first I thought the dog was a tan staffy as I hadnt seen the face and I asked her if it was, as soon as Id asked though I realised she was a pit bull, she was a red nose pit, although she was quite small like a pup. The lady said she was a staffy/ kelpie cross though and I smiled and thought to myself, yeah right hehe. She was definately a pit bull, I wonder if she was ashamed to say so? The dog was gorgeous with a lovely nature and I stayed and patted her for a while, I wanted to take her with me she was that nice. I didnt mention that I thought she was actually a pit bull, however Im 99% certain she was, I just wonder whether she was told she had gotten a kelpie/staffy cross or whether she just didnt like to say she had a pitbull.
Hmmmm, why are you certain she is lying? In a cross breeding sometimes some of the pups come out looking like one or the other breed. And only some have the trais of both. So it if very possible.
American Staffordshire Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers are pretty much the same breed and AKC just puts a different name on them. Many dogs are dual registered as both. Staffordshire Bull Terriers would be cousins. All 3 are considered Pit Bull type dogs and are in the same catergory, so I can't imagine why one would say its a staff and not a Pit. All 3 are generally listed in BSL against Pit Bull type dogs as well as mixes and dogs resembling Pit Bulls. Which would include other breeds or mixes, but if they think its a Pit Bull it doesn't matter that its not.
Also I think the other question was a good one. How can you tell in a cross if its Staff or APBT? Before I moved the people a few blocks from me had a Staff which looked like my female APBT just maybe 10lbs heavier. My girl is 35-36lbs and their dog I'd guess to be about 45lbs. The fact that he was staff wouldn't really change anyone's mind about being a afraid of him, it didn't the time he ran away and I had to take him back. Everyone else was scared of him. Didn't matter that he was a Staff. I had also an APBT that people would usually think was a Staffordshire Bull Terrier because she was 25lbs. So you could be mistaken that she was being dishonest. All look pretty similar, and then especially in a mix it makes it hard to tell.
If the dog is an APBT maybe they were lied to by someone giving the pups away or when adopting the dog from a shelter. But it really makes little difference what type of Pit or Pit mix it is. I've seen a Staff/healer mix that looked like a Pit Bull besides the color of the healer, so they can lean more to one side in looks.
There's a very distinct difference in appearance between APBT and Amstaffs.
Not only by breed standard are APBT's a few inches taller, but they are also leaner and their jaw, (head in general) is not as wide.
Amstaffs share the same original bloodline of APBT's, but have since been selectively bred to different standards, therefore making them a separate breed. Put very simple, Amstaffs are the "show strain" of APBT's, while APBT's are the "working" strain. It's clear, AKC/CKC's reasoning behind separating the two breeds however many years ago. Recognizing a dog that's sole purpose is dog fighting isn't exactly setting a great example. So they separated the breeds, and the rest is history
I agree that it would be pretty difficult to identify a staff/apbt mix unless there were VERY CLEAR attritubtes from both breeds. For example) A staff head with a lean APBT body.
And this is my dog, Hades. After speaking with the CKC they will not give me a PEN number for him because they've labelled him without a doubt an APBT.(he's not a papered APBT) Which the CKC does NOT recognize as a breed.
He'll turn two this summer, so he'll probably fill out a little more but not much.
If the dog is an APBT maybe they were lied to by someone giving the pups away or when adopting the dog from a shelter.
That's what I was going to say.
I almost adopted a dog that was very obviously a Pekingese - Pomeranian mix, but was listed on Petfinder as Pekingese - Shih Tzu mix. If I wasn't someone who knew dog breeds somewhat, I'd have just gone with what the rescue said it was.
Plus, with mixed breeds not exactly bred by the most responsible or careful people, sometimes they're unaware which or how many dogs their bitch was bred to. Someone might have seen their staffy with a kelpie, but that doesn't mean the little hussy didn't get with a pit while she was in heat, too.
I'm sorry, I wasn't arguing. I was asking a sincere question. When you look at a mix, how can you tell the difference between a staff mix and a pit mix? To me, they look pretty much the same, mostly evidenced by the broad head.
Sorry DogAdvocat, I was having a very bad day and just thought getting on would get my mind off of things. I think I can just tell the difference because of being around the Bully breeds so often and felt that it was a good thread because their are alot of people that won't admit to having one because of the rep and I think if you have a good Pit or Pit mix it is a good thing for people to see they are good dogs.
I can definately tell the difference between a pitbull and a staffy. Particularly English staffys (the original). Ive attached two english staffy photos followed by two american staffy photos and I think you can easily tell them apart by looking at the size, and also the facial differences.Then Ill attach a photo of what this dog looked like and you can see how different she looked to a staffy/kelpie cross. Also a photo of a kelpie. The photo just before the kelpie, after the pitbull is my best friends one year old english staffy and she could never ever be mistaken for a pitbull, its just obvious shes a staffy!
Ok it came out in the wrong order. The first black staffy is my best friends, then its two english staffys, then two american staffys, then a red nose pit then a kelpie.
I agree with Alpha in that I don't blame the lady for denying the dog was a pit...if it was anyway. I don't think anyone can blame someone for denying that...I am SURE I am guilty of saying 'Oh she's a Dalmatian mix' and leaving out the pit part. Nowadays I tell people she's a pit bull mix and hope that it helps a few more people see that not EVERY pit bull (or PB mix) is a killing machine.
Actually we even had this adorable pit bull mix (which I am sure was pure bred anyway) come into the vet with a frilly dress on! I couldn't resist going over to meet her...and she was a complete sweetheart...that lady said she only put the dress on so that people wouldn't be quite so uncomfortable with her being there...and I don't blame her for that either. Ironically someone's little small breed (a mix of some kind) was growling at her the whole time and she just lay there looking rather adorable in her dress!
Sorry DogAdvocat, I was having a very bad day and just thought getting on would get my mind off of things. I think I can just tell the difference because of being around the Bully breeds so often and felt that it was a good thread because their are alot of people that won't admit to having one because of the rep and I think if you have a good Pit or Pit mix it is a good thing for people to see they are good dogs.
That's okay, and I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. I do agree with you that it's important for people to use every opportunity to be an ambassador for all breeds, and especially the power breeds that have such a bad reputation, but I'm concerned that their owners oversell it by indicating that their dogs are predictably safe with children and other animals. I don't have a power breed, but if asked if my dog will bite, my answer is usually "he hasn't yet" because I really don't want people coming at him. I don't think it's fair to have strange hands shoved at dogs. I wouldn't like it, so why should he. What I prefer, and I do myself to other dogs, is to let them make the choice. I make myself available, and am overjoyed when they climb into my lap (even that great dane that sat on my lap <g>), and give kisses or snuggles.
I often put bandanas around my dogs necks when we go out just to make them look friendly and they are anyways. I have to say when they have one on I get more people approach them.
DogAdvocate, I cant agree with you more on that one! When I get asked I usually say can't every dog bite? Mine also have never and I do trust them around kids but only when I am with them. They are also trained to go into a down to have a kid pet them because I just don't like any child at eye level with a dog.
Last edited by Jen D; 06-16-2007 at 06:56 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
DogAdvocate, I cant agree with you more on that one! When I get asked I usually say can't every dog bite? Mine also have never and I do trust them around kids but only when I am with them. They are also trained to go into a down to have a kid pet them because I just don't like any child at eye level with a dog.
I once had a Rough Collie that absolutely adored kids. Normally she would lay beside them, if they were sitting on the floor, and rest her head in their laps, looking up at them adoringly. It was really a beautiful sight. One day we were doing adoption days at Petco and had her with us. Things were pretty quiet so she flaked out on the floor and was dozing. A family came up to us and had a 4-year-old boy that all of a sudden decided to launch himself and jump on her as if he were tackling her. She jumped up from lying on her side, and barked. The parents freaked out. The kid was fine. That's when we decided to stop doing Petco adoptions. Children and dogs are unpredictable, no matter how much you think you know them.
By the way, when it was over, I gave our Collie a hug. She did nothing wrong. If it was me, I probably would have bit the kid.
I once had a Rough Collie that absolutely adored kids. Normally she would lay beside them, if they were sitting on the floor, and rest her head in their laps, looking up at them adoringly. It was really a beautiful sight. One day we were doing adoption days at Petco and had her with us. Things were pretty quiet so she flaked out on the floor and was dozing. A family came up to us and had a 4-year-old boy that all of a sudden decided to launch himself and jump on her as if he were tackling her. She jumped up from lying on her side, and barked. The parents freaked out. The kid was fine. That's when we decided to stop doing Petco adoptions. Children and dogs are unpredictable, no matter how much you think you know them.
By the way, when it was over, I gave our Collie a hug. She did nothing wrong. If it was me, I probably would have bit the kid.
It just kills me knowing how many parents just let their kids go up to dogs they don't know. When mine were young they were always told they are to ask the owner and hold their hand out for the dog to meet them also. I would of hugged the collie to!
When a dog-fearful woman told me (regarding my lab) "Don't try to tell me he doesn't bite." I said, "Any dog will bite under particular circumstances, but he hasn't bitten anyone in the five years that I've known him and it seems more likely that I would bite you myself."
I wasn't trying to be rude. It just came out wrong.
That same dog chased four adolescent boys about 50 yards and pinned them up against a fence after they threw some ice chunks at my then 11 year old son. He never touched them. He just kept them occupied until I caught up with them. THEY certainly didn't know he wouldn't bite.
