[love2006]

My five year-old labrador retriever was not socialized as a puppy and now refuses to be in the same room as an unfamiliar dog. At the first sight of another animal, even a small puppy, he lets out an ungodly shriek (it really does sound like a shriek--very high pitched, raspy howl) and will not stop until you remove him from the situation. This is really quite embarrassing. I'm not sure if he is afraid of the other dog or if he is displaying aggression. The latter seems most likely, because if he hears a dog barking or a cat meowing, he will zealously try to find the animal and displays visible curiosity. He does have a companion dog--an older female over whom he is dominant--and they get on perfectly well. How can I socialize him without putting him (or any other dog) at risk?

*It is important to note that he likes every person he meets, so this tendency does not extend to people.

[chewbecca]

Yes, human aggression and dog or animal aggression are two totally separate things.

I would suggest taking him to a trainer/behaviorist. And use this trainer/behaviorist's dog (which I'm sure most trainer's have a non-reactive dog to use in cases like this) to either attempt to socialize your dog or to desensitize your dog to other dogs.

I have a pit bull (mix) and, unfortunately, dog aggression is something that comes with her breed. I take her to a trainer/behaviorist for private lessons and we work on obedience and rally obedience for half the session and then the other half she brings her dog in and we have Ella work a rally-o course in front of the dog. Ella has her initial freak out for about 2-5 minutes when the dog first enters, but she gets into "work mode" and then calms down. Now, my dog is seriously dog aggressive. It's not even something I mess with. ALL of our training is done on leash because even though Ella will calm down eventually, if given the opportunity, she would be on my trainer's dog without warning.
I am accepting the fact that I will never make my dog like or enjoy other dogs, do to that genetic dog aggression that goes with pit bulls, that would be unrealistic. But I *do* expect her to behave when on leash and to be able to be kept under control and not try to back out of her collar (we double collar her whenever we leave the house with her). We're getting there. It's taken a long time, but she is a lot better now than she used to be. But my dog's issues are an extremely long story.

I would suggest doing something similar to what I've done. I am not going to say that your dog needs desensitization to other dogs, I will say that he needs to be evaluated by a trainer/behaviorist to determine whether or not he really is aggressive towards dogs and not just leash reactive or scared. Dog behavior is tricky to read and pin point. But a behaviorist would have a better idea on how to read and test your dog's behavior. And it's safest. I wouldn't suggest trying to figure out for yourself whether or not he's dog aggressive or not. And you don't want to assume he is either, as it's not really a lab breed characteristic for him to be dog aggressive (though, having said that, ANY dog can be dog aggressive).

[Orange County Ca]

Training does seem the best possibility and you can never assume he is trained enough to be trusted off leash.

[love2006]

Thanks so much for the advice--it really is tough when your dog has behavioral issues, isn't it? This would all be so much easier if we humans could understand them a bit better. I intend to find a dog behaviorist in our area and hopefully I can get some insight into our labrador's problem.

[chewbecca]

my suggestion on a dog trainer/behaviorist? Now this might be a bit controversial, but I would suggest finding out WHAT methods the trainer behaviorist suggests in teaching commands and reprimanding for not following commands.

I'd find someone who is a POSITIVE trainer/behaviorist who believes in teaching an owner how to teach his dog (because the owner of the dog IS the trainer of the dog) to think and not just NOT do something because the dog is afraid of a leash correction or some type of negative reinforcement for a behavior.

When you give a dog a choice (through training and lots of it) in a situation on how to behave and you see your dog *think*, you'll know what I'm talking about. Positive training corrects a behavior and gives a dog an opportunity to make the correct choice and negative reinforcement training (collar corrections, alpha rolling, e-collars, prong collars <---though those all have their place) only stops a behavior. It doesn't teach a dog HOW to behave. Does that make sense?
I've been on both sides with my dog.
And the negative reinforcement training/behavior modification only caused my dog to turn hot to other dogs (by a horrible behaviorist I took her to in Chicago when I didn't know better) and caused her to tremble and remain in her crate for an entire day.

Now that I'm taking her to a positive behaviorist/trainer, I am having to try and undo what bad I can undo (and I'm talking about her dislike of other dogs) and regain her trust. But we're coming around. I see my dog *think* when she goes to look at my trainer's dog and throw a fit. She stops herself from reacting and looks at me instead. It's fabulous. We work from there. And, yes, it IS slower, but to me it's more of a bond builder between and owner and a dog and it creates trust in the relationship.

[love2006]

Yes, I'm on the lookout for a dog behaviorist who will help me with socializing and "centering" our labrador. I'd hate to find that he begins to behave in a way that, while pleasing to humans, is emotionally uncomfortable for him--in other words, I don't agree with frightening or bullying animals into submission, which seems to be a very prevalent technique.

I think I may bring in our female dog as well, because I fear any change to our labrador may be short-lived if he returns each day to an unbalanced companion. She was abused by humans and bullied by her fellow canines prior to our adoption of her, and she shows the effects of this--very cautious and unfriendly around humans she does not know, though she does not display aggression. I am still nervous about this, however, because her clear uneasiness makes me wonder if she would bite out of fear. She tends to duck and run away if she sees another dog.

Our labrador has a silly personality around people, very affectionate and high-strung. I think that he would do quite well if we could just get him to calm down a bit in this area. As for the female, she is very polite but may never be a friendly, outgoing dog with unfamiliar people.

Originally Posted by chewbecca

my suggestion on a dog trainer/behaviorist? Now this might be a bit controversial, but I would suggest finding out WHAT methods the trainer behaviorist suggests in teaching commands and reprimanding for not following commands.

I'd find someone who is a POSITIVE trainer/behaviorist who believes in teaching an owner how to teach his dog (because the owner of the dog IS the trainer of the dog) to think and not just NOT do something because the dog is afraid of a leash correction or some type of negative reinforcement for a behavior.

When you give a dog a choice (through training and lots of it) in a situation on how to behave and you see your dog *think*, you'll know what I'm talking about. Positive training corrects a behavior and gives a dog an opportunity to make the correct choice and negative reinforcement training (collar corrections, alpha rolling, e-collars, prong collars <---though those all have their place) only stops a behavior. It doesn't teach a dog HOW to behave. Does that make sense?
I've been on both sides with my dog.
And the negative reinforcement training/behavior modification only caused my dog to turn hot to other dogs (by a horrible behaviorist I took her to in Chicago when I didn't know better) and caused her to tremble and remain in her crate for an entire day.

Now that I'm taking her to a positive behaviorist/trainer, I am having to try and undo what bad I can undo (and I'm talking about her dislike of other dogs) and regain her trust. But we're coming around. I see my dog *think* when she goes to look at my trainer's dog and throw a fit. She stops herself from reacting and looks at me instead. It's fabulous. We work from there. And, yes, it IS slower, but to me it's more of a bond builder between and owner and a dog and it creates trust in the relationship.

[rpe]

Originally Posted by chewbecca

I'd find someone who is a POSITIVE trainer/behaviorist who believes in teaching an owner how to teach his dog (because the owner of the dog IS the trainer of the dog) to think and not just NOT do something because the dog is afraid of a leash correction or some type of negative reinforcement for a behavior.

If you mean the purely positive type they don't have that good a rate of success. Purely positive also has nothing to do with encouraging a dog to think nor does it go further in modifying behavior or building a bond. Quite often it fails. I've had to fix many purely positive trained dogs.

Using a leash and collar doesn't mean pain or bullying for the dog unless you go crazy with it. Corrections don't harm a dog and are a natural part of life for any animal.

This all goes back to people viewing proper corrections in the wrong way. Think of it as also giving a dog direction then immediately praising the dog for doing the right thing. Motivation is not exclusive to any method.

And the negative reinforcement training/behavior modification only caused my dog to turn hot to other dogs (by a horrible behaviorist I took her to in Chicago when I didn't know better) and caused her to tremble and remain in her crate for an entire day.

Thats because he/she didn't know what he was doing. It has nothing to do with using corrections. Many, many times I've seen dog aggression dealt with in minutes (zero pain to the dog). There's no reason this needs to be a long drawn out process. Thats unfair to the dog.

But again, people have to pick what they're comfortable with and what works for them and their dogs. Its different for everyone. Look around, get references if you can and ask questions. Chances are if it doesn't feel right to you it isn't. You can tell purely positive isn't my favorite but I encourage people to check it out.

[DogAdvocat]

Originally Posted by love2006

My five year-old labrador retriever was not socialized as a puppy and now refuses to be in the same room as an unfamiliar dog. At the first sight of another animal, even a small puppy, he lets out an ungodly shriek (it really does sound like a shriek--very high pitched, raspy howl) and will not stop until you remove him from the situation. This is really quite embarrassing. I'm not sure if he is afraid of the other dog or if he is displaying aggression. The latter seems most likely, because if he hears a dog barking or a cat meowing, he will zealously try to find the animal and displays visible curiosity. He does have a companion dog--an older female over whom he is dominant--and they get on perfectly well. How can I socialize him without putting him (or any other dog) at risk?

*It is important to note that he likes every person he meets, so this tendency does not extend to people.

What happens when you take your dog to the vets? Has the vet heard this shriek? Does he think it's a sign of aggression? Because frankly, I haven't ever heard an aggressive dog make that kind of noise. Unless you have a lot of dog experience, I'd suggest the dog be evaluated by someone that does. It sounds more like fear than aggression, and obedience lessons using saturation training might be just the thing that will get your dog over this. Saturation training is basically just inundating the dog with what it's afraid of, so that it becomes normal and nothing to be afraid of. It's best done with the help of a trainer or behaviorist, because you're going to need a bunch of other dogs in a controlled situation.

[Jen D]

Originally Posted by DogAdvocat

What happens when you take your dog to the vets? Has the vet heard this shriek? Does he think it's a sign of aggression? Because frankly, I haven't ever heard an aggressive dog make that kind of noise. Unless you have a lot of dog experience, I'd suggest the dog be evaluated by someone that does. It sounds more like fear than aggression, and obedience lessons using saturation training might be just the thing that will get your dog over this. Saturation training is basically just inundating the dog with what it's afraid of, so that it becomes normal and nothing to be afraid of. It's best done with the help of a trainer or behaviorist, because you're going to need a bunch of other dogs in a controlled situation.

Just thinking the same you should take to dog to classes, start with a small one with a good trainer.

A friend of mine had a dog aggresive dog, so I took my large laid back AB over there. I tied him to a fake good size well in the front and started walking the other dog by him. It was going great Kramer doesn't care about other dogs so he was just sitting there, looking around. The other dog was doing great so I was ending for the day when Kramer got up and started walking with the well behind him. He knew I was leaving and I wasn't going home without him.

[Shalva]

I disagree with RPE

we are not talking about a dog that is not sitting or coming when called we are talking about a dog that is clearly fearful.... using a correction of any sort on a dog that is already fearful only perpetuates the fear response.

I am not a purely positive trainer.... I don't have a problem with using an E-collar out in the field if necessary... nor do I mind letting my dogs know that there behavior is unacceptable.... and I have put obedience titles on dogs.... however, in dealing with a dog who has an unstable personality due to lack of socialization, or fear issues, I wouldn't even consider using any type of correction, the dog needs to learn that good things happen when he meets other dogs, not that he is going to be corrected....

I have a dog that was attacked at a young age and is fearful of other dogs and as such she can be aggressive towards them..... basically a couple things helped... first and foremost is me NOT freaking out and tensing up when we saw another dog.... that is transmitted down the leash and your dog can sense it... so if he is already a bit nervous about meeting other dogs and you tense up... you have just told him he has reason to be nervous....

Second.... once a dog has an argument with another dog it takes 48 hours for the adrenaline to go down... during this time another altercation is more likely to happen... so try to keep your pup calm and quiet during that time....

When you are out with your dog... keep your eyes peeled for other dogs and try to see any other dogs before your dog does.... when your dog sees the others.... give a treat..... and as you get closer...say yes or good boy or whatever and give a treat.... don't let them come nose to nose.... let it be a good experience from a distance..... over time you will be able to get closer.... but this is a long term process.... it takes years.... this is not a quick fix.... and if your dog has issues.... then they may not know how to speak dog properly and send off conflicting signals....

Going to see a behaviorist is absolutely in your best interest..... AND I agree with the others who suggest a purely positive approach in this situation.

S