[jwshack]

Well, this is my first time posting and I hope this is the right forum, but I'd like some advice.

I have two dogs: a four-year old chocolate lab and a seven-month old black lab. My dogs are really well behaved. They don't bark much (at least when I'm around) and they're really well house trained. My dogs stay outside when I'm at work and they come in during night.

The problem is my neighbors. I live in a townhome community that have really long (but narrow) backyards. My labs love it because they love to run around. Today, however, I got a warning from my local animal control that warned me about my backyard smelling and my dogs barking.

I do clean up my backyard reasonably well. I clean my backyard twice a week. I think the smell that my neighbors are complaining about is from urine. My dogs like to pee right along their fence. Does anyone have any solutions on how I can take care of the urine smelling?

Secondly, I don't think that my dogs are the ones responsible for most of the barking. There's another dog that lives two doors down that barks much more than mine. I looked up my city's ordinance and all it says is that "no owner shall allow there animal to disturb the peace and quiet of any individual by allowing the animal to bark, whine, or howl in an excessive, continuous, or untimely manner." The ordinance doesn't define what excessive, continuous, or untimely manner is though.

Anyway, does anyone have any experience with fighting local dog laws? I'm inclined to do nothing about the barking and just try to fight it in court (mainly because I know that my dogs aren't barking a whole lot).

What would most of you recommend using to control barking? I am a bit worried about the humanity aspects of the shock collar. Does anyone have experience using these?

Thanks for your time!

[Snowshoe]

I do not know if you will like my advice, but as this is a public forum you will likely hear all kinds.

First off, you probably should reconsider allowing your dogs to run loose in your yard while you are at work. In my opinion, that is asking for trouble.

What if someone stole your dogs? What if they managed to get loose and animal control picked them up? What if an aggressive dog got in their pens and they got attacked? What if they managed to eat some thing poisonous?

If you crate train your dogs, you will not have to worry about any of this. However, you would have to make more time to exercise them. I think that sacrificing a little time is worth their safety and well being.

I guess my main point is that you have no way of controlling them while you are at work and they are loose. Using a shock collar would be meaningless, because even if they barked, you would be at work and have no idea.

If you shocked them while you were at home for barking, they would not doubt be confused why sometimes they get shocked, and sometimes they didn't. Shock collars are not for those unexperienced in training techniques. It does not sound like you are experienced. Perhaps I am wrong.

IMHO- shock collars are cruel.

Please read this article. It is about Nine to Five dogs. http://www.chathamanimalrescue.org/ninetofivedog.shtml

[Chloef_2799]

If you have family and/or friends that live close by why not have them check in half way through the day and give them some attention if that is what they are craving?
I agree with snowshoe, if the dogs are running around in the back yard all day with no supervision then you are asking for trouble. And you also mentioned that your dogs don't bark alot when you are home. Well how do you know they don't bark alot when you aren't home? My old neighbours had a beagle and they crated him when they left for work and he would howl for two hours after they left and until they put a video camera on him when they left they never believed me. Maybe you should try that, leave a video camera going when you leave a few times to see what they do or even a tape recorder to catch noises. You may be surprised.
I have never heard of dog urine smelling very bad but I believe it is possible. I think cleaning the yard twice a week is very reasonable and it is possible your neighbours are complaining because they are un-aware that other people in the complex have dogs as well? And who knows...maybe they have very sensitive noses? My boyfriends mother doesn't like animals and whenever she comes over she alwasy says our house stinks because Chloe and Sadie don't get bathed enough. But they get bathed every two weeks and groomed every six which I think is plenty.
Have you talked to your neighbours and tried to find out what their problem is? Have you asked around and tried to find out if anyone else with dogs has had complaints from them? Do some investigating as well and try to help fix the problem. If you have to fight them in court all I can say is good luck.

[Snowshoe]

Chloe- interesting story about the beagle. Sounds like they were related to my old neighbors back in WV! LOL!

The only difference was, like the OP, they allowed their dog to run loose in the back while they were at work. As soon as it was out, it would jump the fence and run loose in the neighborhood.

We tried to tell them, but they would not believe us until the hubby came home early and found the dog gone. It did not return to the yard until 4:30 p.m. (which was right when the wife got home). Smart dog!

They kept him chained on a dog run after that...

[Chloef_2799]

We had those neighbours for two years and the first three months we kept telling them the dog was howling. I didn't have to much of an issue but our other neighbours above us have young children so it interupted nap time for them which was aserious problem. We kept telling them and they kept denying it and saying it had to be another dog until I said they only dog I have ever heard howling is their dog when they let it outside when they get home so she finally set up a video camera and after the second day she came over and appologized and said they would get rid of the dog. Which I told them not to do, I gave them a phone number for a good dog trainer/behaviourist I know and she came over and helped them solve the problem. Aparently he was very bored and lonely so they got a cat and let the dog have run of the living room and kitchen and gave him lots of rawhides and kongs and other toys and he neevr howled after that. He was never a bad dog just a loud one!

[lovemygreys]

For the urine smell, I would recommend a product called Sweet PDZ. You can buy it at most horse supply/feed stores. It works REALLY well to absorb/neutralize the odor and it's perfectly safe to use around animals. You just sprinkle it on the ground. It's also pretty cheap...I think I pay less than $20 for a really ginormous bag of it. I use it around our deck and the entrance to our yard where dogs love to mark.


As for the barking...well, the only way you'll be able to fight it in court is to have video evidence of your dogs NOT barking when the complainants say they are. How much is too much? Well, that's subjective but I think most people have a pretty good "common sense" idea of what too much is. And for non-dog owners, pretty much anything over a few barks is too much.

I would be really nervous leaving them outside...especially after an official complaint has been made. All it takes is a frustrated person throwing some poisoned meat over the fence and your dogs could be dead by the time you get home. It doesn't matter if your dogs really are barking or not...if they are perceived to be the problem then they could be targets.

[Snowshoe]

Originally Posted by lovemygreys

It doesn't matter if your dogs really are barking or not...if they are perceived to be the problem then they could be targets.

EXACTLY what I was trying to get at.

[jwshack]

Thanks for the comments, guys. I appreciate all of them.

To Snowshoe, I'm not really worried about my dogs being stolen. I live in a small town in Wyoming. People would notice. Your other concerns are somewhat valid, although I have spent quite a bit of money making my backyard "dog proof". It would be quite hard (even for a dog) to get into or out of my backyard without going through my house (which, if it were to happen, I have other problems). Also, I think that I may have confused shock collars with bark collars. I definitely do not want to use a shock collar, but I was investigating using bark collars. My vet mentioned that bark collars work for some people when I asked him about the problem so I was checking it out because I don't have any experience with them. Thanks for your comments.

To the others, I usually check on my dogs at lunch. I'm able to run home and make sure they're doing okay. I will put up a video camera though and see if something is happening and let you know what happens.

I also just checked with the animal control officer to see what the complaint was about. He said that the person who complained about my dogs said that they were outside barking at four in the morning. Well, my dogs are inside sleeping at four in the morning so I know that it couldn't have been my dogs barking (I'm not that heavy of a sleeper).

I've tried talking to the neighbors, but an ornery old lady lives next door (the complainer). Even the animal control officer told me to stay away from her. I've talked with my neighbors on the other side and they said that my mutts are well behaved.

I will try the Sweet PDZ. I will also be more cautious about leaving them outside from now on. I definitely don't want them to get poisoned.

Thanks once again for everyone's comments.

[lovemygreys]

I've seen citronella bark collars...it delivers a spritz of citronella when they bark, rather than a shock. They are supposed to be more humane - if I had to use a bark collar, I would probably go that route. Though, I have heard of some dogs react to the spritz with even more barking b/c it gets them riled up. Just an idea to investigate.

There are also some ultra-sonic bark systems that I've seen - check out petedge.com - they sell them there. Not sure how they work, but they are designed to be used in a kennel environment.

If they were supposedly barking at 4am, then you can be pretty sure it wasn't your dogs. But, that won't stop some really mean/evil people if they believe that it was.

[briteday]

It sounds like you have a neighbor who doesn't want to live next to someone with dogs. Have you been there a while? Do you own or rent your unit?

First off, I wouldn't leave my dogs outside while I was gone. If the neighbor goes outside to sit in her yard the dogs may be barking at her or hanging around the fence to sniff her. Undoubtedly she has had a bad experience with a dog in the past and is afraid of all dogs, probably not just yours.

urine smell...I'm not wild about it when I have foster dogs that urinate on my deck posts or fencing. I can smell it on a warm day from far away. You might try going out every morning and evening and hosing off the areas that they like to frequent the most.

Also, if I had neighbors as close as yours, and I owned two labs, I would be doing poop patrol morning and evening, every day, as well. I found a great pooper scooper at Petsmart for $20. It was designed as a kid's science project (says so on the label "designed by a 10 year old, or something) and uses plastic grocery bags. Best of all you never have to touch anything, it can hang on a hook in the yard, and it has an adjustable length handle so tall people don't have to bend over a lot. It also has a fork-like pick up thing so it gets into the grass.

Also, try to take your dogs out of the yard for more exercise when you are home. Remember your neighbor is probably retired, at home and in the yard, 24/7 most days. She gets quite a fill of living next to 2 labs that are home all day alone.

Lastly, try to kill that neighbor with kindness. Sorry, she's elderly, don't kill her literally! Do nice things for her like helping her carry bags in when you bump into her at the driveway, shovel her walk in the winter, and mention how protective your dogs can be for anyone that might try to bother her, and letting her know just how gentle they are (you see her out while you are exercising the dogs, offer to let her pet them while you are holding their leashes). You will catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Since I have had rental neighbors that left dogs out 365 days/year with little food and water, no shelter, etc and I have reported them...sitting in court hearing all the animal control cases of barking, messes, destruction, etc...the dog owner almost always comes out the loser. So I wouldn't be so anxious to fight her in court, especially if she has lived there longer than you. Do you rent or own your townhome? That makes a big difference too. If you are renting and only there for a short time, a couple of years or less, try to do a better job with the dog clean up and keeping them inside. If you own and have to live next door to this nieghbor for the foreseeable future, you better learn to make peace with her.

[Ginny01OT]

I honestly do not think it is fair to the dogs or the neighbors if your dogs are left out all day while you are at work. We had the same situation behind us--PLUS the dog was tied up all day as well. The dog barked and barked and when we had a heat wave/heat warning posted and the huskey mix was still tied outside with his water bowl turned over I called our local animal shelter, enough was enough. Believe me I am a BIG animal lover and neighbors called the animal shelter does not mean they do not like dogs perhaps they are concerned. Dogs are a big commitment and it is not fair for them to be left outside all day if one works for a number of reasons. What if there was a bad storm, what if one got hurt, what if they were having bad days and not getting along, what if someone wanted to hurt or steal one of the dogs, what if one got a hold of something they were chewing on that caused them to choke, what if a wild animal got into the yard--what if, what if, what if....

[sheltiemom]

I'd bring them inside and crate them while you are at work, for their own safety and to avoid further problems with your neighbor. They should be fine, especially since you come home during the day to check on them. I'd also pay a visit to your neighbors, nicely, and explain that it was not your dogs barking at 4 am, and that if they have a problem with you or your dogs in the future, you'd appreciate it if they addressed it with you directly before getting the authorities involved.

[Amaya-Mazie-Marley]

There are also things you can hook to your fence, orginally designed for someone to use against their neighbors dogs, but it sends out some sort of signal and the dogs won't bark. I had to get one to use on my neighbors dog, she never even knew it, and he stopped barking.

[DogAdvocat]

I think this topic has been covered well, but I did wnat to add two things. First, you said you only pick up the yard twice a week. If you consider that most dogs eliminate once or twice a day, that could mean that there are 8 to 16 piles left around, which depending on the size of your yard, can certainly bring flies, which can add to the "aroma." But it's not just what's laying on the ground. If you have a neighbor that is not dog savvy, and has a sensitive nose, the first few minutes after a dog has gone can be particularly potent. If that is happening 4 times a day, that could be what the neighbor is basing their complain on.

Second, I think you've changed from a shock collar to a bark collar, which is better, but a bark collar is triggered by sound, and that means that if dog 1 is barking, dog 2's bark collar can be triggered, which is very confusing to the dog that isn't barking but whose collar responds to the barking of dog 1. I haven't used the citronella collar, so I defer to those who have as it applies to multiple dogs.

[Snowshoe]

Also to the OP, dogs can be stolen any time anywhere.