Let the older dog growl at the new puppy?

jenmarisa77 · 05-25-2007, 12:45 AM

Hello,

First - Thank you so, so, so much for reading this long post. I'm trying to give enough background to get the best advice.

I have 4 dogs aged 3 months to 7 years. I have read and researched everything related to training but I'm still stumped on a few things. Here's the trickiest one...

I brought Figo, a new puppy, home about a month ago. He is getting along with his siblings fairly well but, because he is so full of energy, sometimes irritates them. Each of the other 3 has a different way of handling it.

Seren - male, 7 years old, chow/golden retriever mix
Seren simply walks away and ignores Figo. This works well and they've never had any issues getting along. Figo gives up within about 5 seconds and moves his attention elsewhere.

Mocha - female, 4 years old, border collie/rottie mix
I found Mocha on the side of the road 3 years ago and she was banged up, would never bark (thought she was mute for the first few months), and scared of everything. Needless to say, her puppyhood was probably not good. She's now healthy and happy but still holds onto some timid and shy traits that lead to trouble in certain situations. Mocha growls at the puppy and has actually snapped at him a couple times.

Reeses - female, 2 years old, chow/rottie mix
Reeses is the clear leader of the pack and, at one point, she was even leading me to be honest. That has since been remedied. Reeses is fearless, stubborn, tough and sharp. On very few occassions, she has quietly growled at Figo but 95% of the time, all she does is look at him and he runs away. I don't know if she's throwing off a vibe that I can't sense or what but my puppy seems to respect her as the leader and doesn't push his luck.

Quick Story.......
When I brought Reeses home 2 years ago, I did not let Mocha and Seren growl at her - EVER. Up until I started learning and implementing proper training techniques (maybe 6 months ago-ish) Reeses dominated the house. I think it had something to do with the fact that I wouldn't let dogs be dogs...and she learned that she could get away with anything. There was even an incident wherein she and Mocha started fighting and Mocha ended up with a broken leg. (Another story)

Now, with the new puppy, I'm wondering if I should let the older two girls, especially Mocha who is timid-acts-defenseless-most-of-the-time, go ahead and growl a little to keep the puppy in line. They don't do it over food, water, toys or anything else like that. It's only when the puppy wants to play and they don't. He's bitten me a few times and, I'll tell you what, I don't blame them for growling!

Is growling just the equivalent of saying, "No!" or does it represent something more aggresive and violent? Should I let them growl or stop them? If I stop them, then I need to constantly watch Figo (which I do already) and keep him away from the girls until - when? Until he completely grows out of his playfulness? Hmmmm....

Any advice is so very appreciated. I know this is a long question so thank you so much if you'd read through it!!!

Jen

jenmarisa77 · 05-25-2007, 01:03 AM

PS - I've attached pictures

zyclonenuz · 05-25-2007, 01:06 AM

actually I/we have 5 dogs. 2 Dachshunds, 1 Cocker Spaniel, 1 Siberian Husky and 1 Golden Retriever. (all are still puppies)

the first one we got was the 2 Dachshunds and then the Cocker Spaniel. When the Cocker Spaniel arrived the female Dachshund (jazz) ignored and growled at Thatcher (Cocker Spaniel) for a few weeks and after that they are best buddies. then but after a few weeks or a month when the Maya (Husky) arrived Jazz is really getting jealous/annoyed she ignored the husky and growled at her when ever the Maya gets closed to her but Thatcher it's a different story they played ASAP and now the latest addition is Meadow (Golden Retriever) same story with Jazz but just lasted a couple of days.

A friend of mine said some dogs welcome new pups some don't but after a few days/weeks the old dog will adjust. It's just that some dogs MAY feel crowded and some may feel that they have another rival when it comes to affection.

but I'm no expert just sharing my side of the story

Curbside Prophet · 05-25-2007, 01:39 AM

Yes, let them growl. Be thankful your dogs give warnings. And yes, being around older dogs is something your pup needs to learn. Here's a simple test to tell if your pup has had enough...grab him by the collar near the dog that just gave him a warning - if he runs away from the dog, he's had enough for the day, and consider the lesson learned - if he comes back for more, let him have more.

I would not do this, however, with a dog that I'm not certain has excellent bite inhibition, or a dog I've only had for a short period of time. Is the growling aggression? Not necessarily! Is it dangerous? Only if your dog has a history of causing physical damage. Otherwise, you need to look at it is part of a ritualistic behavior dogs use to resolve conflicts. I look at it this way...would you sue anyone for frowning and ruining your good mood? I say then don't sue your dog for growling.

RonE · 05-25-2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

would you sue anyone for frowning and ruining your good mood?

Oh, I only wish I could.

It's interesting to watch the interaction between Esther and Zeke. Mostly, they play, but I've watched Esther teach the younger dog that it's a good idea to give her some space while she's eating, getting a belly rub or performing essential bodily functions in the yard. And, while sharing a toy or a bone is perfectly okay, tennis balls are private property.

She does this mostly with the softest of growls with the occasional paw to the back. I've never seen her lose her patience with the little guy (something I cannot claim for myself.)

Jen D · 05-25-2007, 07:42 AM

I think the dog that is growling need to teach the pup when to much is to much but if I were you I don't think I would leave them alone till they work through this. From the way you decribe what is going on it sound like a natural thing to me dogs just do this they can't speak so saying no won't work. Good luck!

Amaya-Mazie-Marley · 05-25-2007, 08:38 AM

I think its good that the older dog growls at the puppy, but in my case I have to be careful. If my APBT growls at my 8 pound dog, thats a big no no. My APBT, Marley, if decided could tear up my 8 pound dog in a flash, so he has learned when upset with her, leave her alone and if she keeps persisting, she comes back in the house.

SunSiberians · 05-25-2007, 10:22 AM

I agree also with what people have said. Growling is a good warning that will teach the pup a lot about the house hold dynamics. Beautiful dogs!

jenmarisa77 · 05-25-2007, 05:47 PM

This is great advice and you have no idea how reassuring it is to hear some of your stories as well.

The Rottie/Chow mix is always watched very closely for the same reason mentioned above - one bite can cause so much damage to the little pup. But, she's doing great and even let's the puppy go through doors first, shares treats (peanut butter on a spoon), etc. I was expecting her to be the hardest to integrate but, nope, it's the shy, scared-of-my-shadow one. I'm guessing it's an attention/jealousy thing that she'll get over with time.

I just signed up for an Animal Behavior program so that I can learn all of the ins and outs of this stuff, help be a better mom and help other dog owners too.