A true story about my friend and her Amer. Staff

borzoimom · 05-24-2007, 12:23 PM

Understanding the original use for the breed or breed type is half the battle and adjust accordingly.. NEVER assume you have trained the primary function of the breed or breed type out of the dog. .. Its not worth the heart break, financial problems etc.. I cant imagine my life without a dog. However- understanding the deep seeded function of the breed will help you prepare for that " just in case"..

Jen D · 05-24-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

Understanding the original use for the breed or breed type is half the battle and adjust accordingly.. NEVER assume you have trained the primary function of the breed or breed type out of the dog. .. Its not worth the heart break, financial problems etc.. I cant imagine my life without a dog. However- understanding the deep seeded function of the breed will help you prepare for that " just in case"..

You are so right, I know I have read numerous books on Bull breeds and did have an idea what I was getting into. I wanted a difficult breed to train and deal with for the experience so that is one of the reasons I went for it. I have had great luck with them but I am happy that you wrote your story about you rfriend I have been to relaxed about my dogs and it was a great wake calll for me, a good reminder of what they are capable of.

sillylilykitty · 05-24-2007, 09:00 PM

What are all the Bull breeds?

Lightwingcreations · 05-24-2007, 09:33 PM

The poor woman, words can't say how sad it makes me to think that that happened to such a dog conscientious person. I hope she starts recovering faster now that she is "free". I also hope she can forgive herself and understand that she did everything (training, socialization) she could do to overcome that breeds reputation. Hopefully in the future she will see that this tragedy helped make other people more aware and proactive when it comes to "high-risk" breeds. I know it opened my eyes.
I've thought that in the future I would not rule out bully breeds or bully mixes when I adopt a dog as there are so many in the shelters. At least now I know that I will have to have a higher fence (currently have 4ft. chain) or use a no-jump harness, or both. I will also have to think of all of the other ramifications that could come about.
I'll keep her in my thoughts

borzoimom · 05-24-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightwingcreations

The poor woman, words can't say how sad it makes me to think that that happened to such a dog conscientious person. I hope she starts recovering faster now that she is "free". I also hope she can forgive herself and understand that she did everything (training, socialization) she could do to overcome that breeds reputation. Hopefully in the future she will see that this tragedy helped make other people more aware and proactive when it comes to "high-risk" breeds. I know it opened my eyes.
I've thought that in the future I would not rule out bully breeds or bully mixes when I adopt a dog as there are so many in the shelters. At least now I know that I will have to have a higher fence (currently have 4ft. chain) or use a no-jump harness, or both. I will also have to think of all of the other ramifications that could come about.
I'll keep her in my thoughts

God bless you.. She thought for sure she had all the bases covered.. So did I...
Again- thank you for being respectful on my feelings as related to my friend! This was a very personal post- but one I felt necessary to help people realize the problems that can occur. A prepared owner is a happy pet.. * and safe*

Chloef_2799 · 05-24-2007, 09:43 PM

I feel so bad for everyone involved in that situation. How awful. Maybe it is just me but I think attempted murder charges are a bit overkill. She never trained the dog to be aggressive so its not like she ever intended to have the dog attack someone. I don't, however, understand why her fence wouldn't be higher but then there could be many reasons why she didn't get a higher fence. Tell her I am very sorry and I hope she remembers how wonderful and fulfilling dogs can be. Maybe she can get back into the dog world by getting herself a tiny little dog. She deserves some hope.
I know alot of people around here who have dogs and do some very irresponsible things like let them run loose when they are not in a fenced area or the worst, we have one lady who takes her dogs for walks when the City guys are cutting the grass with their giant lawn mower tractors. I mean yeah they keep an eye out....but dogs can be un-predictable and I think it is SOOO dangerous for her to do that. but alot of people who claim to have "great dogs who are very trained" let their dogs run helter skelter and I just find it to be so dangerous in my area. I mean there could be another dog who could attack yours or as in your friends case you dog may just snap and go off and attack someone or another dog. Just to dangerous and iffy for me. Me and my dogs were already attacked by some guys dog this year....never again for me. I check the field for other people now, if I don't know them and their dog is un-leashed then Chloe, Sadie and me walk somewhere else.

borzoimom · 05-24-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chloef_2799

I feel so bad for everyone involved in that situation. How awful. Maybe it is just me but I think attempted murder charges are a bit overkill. She never trained the dog to be aggressive so its not like she ever intended to have the dog attack someone. I don't, however, understand why her fence wouldn't be higher but then there could be many reasons why she didn't get a higher fence. Tell her I am very sorry and I hope she remembers how wonderful and fulfilling dogs can be. Maybe she can get back into the dog world by getting herself a tiny little dog. She deserves some hope.
I know alot of people around here who have dogs and do some very irresponsible things like let them run loose when they are not in a fenced area or the worst, we have one lady who takes her dogs for walks when the City guys are cutting the grass with their giant lawn mower tractors. I mean yeah they keep an eye out....but dogs can be un-predictable and I think it is SOOO dangerous for her to do that. but alot of people who claim to have "great dogs who are very trained" let their dogs run helter skelter and I just find it to be so dangerous in my area. I mean there could be another dog who could attack yours or as in your friends case you dog may just snap and go off and attack someone or another dog. Just to dangerous and iffy for me. Me and my dogs were already attacked by some guys dog this year....never again for me. I check the field for other people now, if I don't know them and their dog is un-leashed then Chloe, Sadie and me walk somewhere else.

AMEN- AND YOU KNOW the real joke of this??? The town ordinance states no fence can be higher than 4 foot in town.. The sad fact was- even if 6 feet if the dog wanted to - they could. I have even seen a sheltie get over a 6 foot fence if they want too.
How sweet of you to also be so supportive in a subject I even debated posting. And attempted charges we felt outragious as well.. It turned into public endangerment, but she still was in jail for over 14 months by the time this got done!( if you include the bail denial.)

PsiElement · 05-24-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

AMEN- AND YOU KNOW the real joke of this??? The town ordinance states no fence can be higher than 4 foot in town.. The sad fact was- even if 6 feet if the dog wanted to - they could. I have even seen a sheltie get over a 6 foot fence if they want too.
How sweet of you to also be so supportive in a subject I even debated posting. And attempted charges we felt outragious as well.. It turned into public endangerment, but she still was in jail for over 14 months by the time this got done!( if you include the bail denial.)

If the dog had killed someone, the owner should be held responsible. If the lady was permanently maimed for the rest of her life, the owner should also pay with jail time.. but from this story, the city itself didn't do much to prevent it (the fence height limitation, for instance!) and I do think that since no one was killed it was ridiculous to not let her out on any bail. 14 months in jail because of an attack seems really, really extreme. There was no prior history and I'm sure plenty of people (trained professionals) could vouch for the fact that the dog just snapped, it wasn't trained to do what it did (quite the opposite in fact). Very sad for all parties involved and a good warning to people.. you can suppress a certain inherited behavior but it never goes 100 percent away 100 percent of the time.

I hope your friend heals and in times goes back to her dogs and re-flames her passion for it.

borzoimom · 05-24-2007, 10:31 PM

Including me as a licensed certified trainer- we were there.. She is disabled from the heart attack. On disability- ...

Wimble Woof · 05-24-2007, 10:49 PM

It is easy to forget about instict, your story is definately an excellent reminder of what all of our dogs "could" do. Bullys, sight/scent hounds, herding and so on.
There is no way to change instinct. It is not something that can be trained out of any thing.
In a society where it seems more and more breeds jobs are becoming "obsolete" and dogs are taking on the companion roles more so than working roles, it is easy to forget.
I am terribly sorry to hear about the story, yet am so grateful that you shared. We ALL need reminders from time to time.

sheltiemom · 05-24-2007, 11:18 PM

I think it's insane that she did jail time for this. Responsibility for medical/vet bills is one thing, but your friend being in jail did no one any good. This is an example of a tragic situation being made even worse by ruining two lives instead of one. Quite frankly, our legal system makes me SICK. I am sorry for everyone involved.

borzoidad · 05-24-2007, 11:42 PM

Honey- Susan will be fine. Talk to you tomorrow about this. We can only do so much. - D. ( yes- I joined.)

Jen D · 05-25-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sillylilykitty

What are all the Bull breeds?

American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, and Bull Terriers.

tobybones · 06-03-2007, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen D

American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, and Bull Terriers.

you forgot Boxers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Did she have a staffie or an APBT? Was this story reported in any papers? It sounds almost difficult for me to fathom, and it's very saddening.

I really find this "true story" hard to believe. This would have been all over the news. What "paper" was it in? What town? I think this is just a "story" to get people talking. Sorry, but thats what I think.

4onthefloor · 06-03-2007, 04:16 AM

Did anyone every check the old ladies health history. Just maybe she was going to have a heart attack anyway, & the situation was just circumstance. I find it difficult to believe she did'nt already have existing health problems to have cause disability like that. I think your friend was being held accountable for way to much. I'm sorry for her.Old ladies dog probably was the one that sent out some kind of negative signal. I have a friend who live in a neighborhood and the lady let her chi run loose and yip & nip. Friend walks her greyhound & warned lady grey is on leash an won't go after chi, but if it attacks she'll let leash loose so she can defend herself.

very sad

borzoimom · 06-03-2007, 08:59 AM

Again- thank you all for maintaining a poliet discussion, being considerate of our feelings.
To answer your question, that line of thought came up. However- they had statments from her doctors that she had never had a heart attack before.
And I know what you mean with a sighthound and a chi.. I was at a show once and this lady with a tiny min pin said " oh take a picture of my little dog with your big dog-".. as she puts the little dog right in the face of zubin. Zubin before could have cared less- but that day his ears went up ( sure sign of totally alert and start of the hunt). I grabbed Zubins nose so quick it wasnt funny. Glared at the woman- and said "ma'am- this is a sigthound- please remove your cute little dog from my dogs face... " It made the lady mad I would not let her photograph the dogs, but uh well better than the other possible situation with this squirmy little dog in my 110 pound sighthounds face... And Zubin doesnt have a mean bone in his body- but you can NOT shut off 5000 years of use and instinct to chase etc.. Understanding this is what makes responsible ownership..

sillylilykitty · 06-03-2007, 05:34 PM

We have 2 retired racing greyhounds at my school, 1 male 1 female. The female almost never has her ears up, the male almost always has them up. I would never trust the male with a cat or anything small but the female couldnt care less, shes the one who never made it to the track, she didnt have enough drive. One day me and my friend were walking the hounds and this lady was walking with 3 little chihuahuas off leash. Immediately I tightened up the lead on Whiskey (the male) because those chis were loose and started barking. One of the chis walked so close to us, and thats when we left because if that chi had gotten any closer Whiskey would have taken a chunk out of it and the lady would have been devastated. Some people! All dogs should be leashed, you never know what you might run into.

Inga · 06-17-2007, 12:09 PM

How long ago did this happen? Where? I am so sorry that this happened to your friend. It is always scary when a dog suddenly proves that they are still an animal no matter how much training and love. I wonder what made the dog do that. I have witnessed a similar incident involving a Great Dane. The owners trained it , it was always friendly and sweet. One day it just rushed out and attacked a dog walking by with it's owner and growled and lunged at the other dogs owner. Fortunaltely the Great Danes owner pulle it off just in time. WHY???

borzoimom · 06-17-2007, 12:14 PM

Inga- the fault lies in not understanding the inate reason for a breed or breed traits.. Its like people that have cats with sighthounds for years- one day- disaster... Or the beagle that follows the nose, - dogs are deeper than most realize and as my siggy says " there is not such thing as just a dog..."
Whatever breed or breed type you own- you need to put things in place to protect your dog- as well as yourself...

SunSiberians · 06-17-2007, 12:16 PM

Wow. That is just devistating. Goodness, how incredibly sad. I completely agree and thank you for bringing up that fantastic point. It is the sad truth that no matter how well the dog is trained, they are still hard wired and can't always ignore their instincs.