[Wimble Woof]

So as not to threadjack other threads.
I am wondering what the deal is with the whole "if you work 10+ hours per day you shouldnt have a dog"
Im sorry, I am gone 11 hours a day 5 days a week. My dogs are fine, all 4 of them.
They still get their excersise, they havent destroyed my house ( Kita ate a couch once while we were home and sleeping but thats off topic) they havent developed bad social habbits and 2 of them were brought here as young pups.

It sorta irritates me that if you work, you shouldnt have a dog, but if you dont work, you shouldnt have a dog ( how ever would you afford one right ) SO... what is the unofficial criteria for getting a dog?

I see why people just give up and go to BYBs now.

I recently applied for a puppy that I am hoping to get in 2 years ( yup applied this soon) and that was a question from several of the breeders that I contacted.
But however, was not an issue when I explained how our lifestyle was.
I am gone 55 hours/ week, my boyfriend is gone Monday through Friday EVERY week. BUT. Weekends literally revolve around the dogs, and after work for me is some hard core frisbee games and "lovin time"
These are examples of "poor dogs left alone all week" cause honestly that is what they are. No one in their right mind will come here if we arent home to play with them, or talk to them. Its just not safe. I guess I should contact some rescues since its so damn cruel to leave them alone like I do *sigh*
http://www.dogforums.com/8-dog-pictu...h-doggies.html (40 km/h doggies)
Why is that unacceptable?

Enlighten me.

[borzoimom]

My answer would be this other person never had dogs before. Obviously you have had dogs- so the transition is a seperate matter. Thats the situation in my mind- never had a dog before and gone all day...

[skunkstripe]

Wimble Woof I can give you my opinion-nothing mroe and nothing less.

Obviously most people work, which is a GOOD thing! And most of us cannot take our dogs to work with us, so we have to find a way to own a dog.

The big problem comes IMO when you have an inexperienced owner who gets a young (8 wks) puppy. They read a "little bit" about caring for a dog, a "little bit" about housetraining and crate training and think they are good to go. The worst case result from this scenario is that the owner leaves the puppy in a crate all day (figuring this is "crate training" - it isn't), gets upset to come home to a crate full of poo, and a puppy who whines at night.

I do not want to exaggerate too much in case you already know this. To make it short, if you want a little puppy to grow into an adult dog who will be a joy to have, you need to supervise them closely when they are little and train them.

What is less of a problem on the other hand is adopting an older dog. Often they are in shelters through no fault of their own (owner dies, owners get divorced, bla bla bla) but they have already been trained and would have no problem amusing themselves at home while Master is at work. Well for some reason, folks seem to be dead set on getting a puppy because they have this idea that shelter dogs have "behavior issues" and if they get a puppy that this puppy will somehow be transformed into the adult dog of their expectations. Well to do that you have to be there. You wouldn't let an infant or a two-year old child hang out in your house alone all day and a puppy is about the same thing.

It IS possible to get a young puppy and work full-time, but it is a special challenge. If you can convince the folks with the puppy that you know the pitfalls and know how to work around them then they will be more understanding.

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear and I hope it does not sound harsh, it is meant as a genuine answer to your question.

Good luck.

[Wimble Woof]

I started somewhere though.
We all did.

Your post didnt seem harsh, I just dont see where we get off saying NO a dog isnt for you! and so on.
Im not super dog owner, and I am not the best owner out there either, but I managed to raise 2 pups while working full time. It can be done.
Yes people do need to hear the worst case scinarios on working and having a puppy, I agree. But it can be, and definately has been, done.

*** and just a side note, I was put on 3 waiting lists, I weeded through the breeders shortly there after and picked the one I was most satisfied with, If all goes well I will have my pup in 2 years***

[skunkstripe]

Originally Posted by Wimble Woof

I started somewhere though.
We all did.

Sure but maybe not with the second hardest case (IMO the HARDEST thing is getting a previously abused dog). Little puppies are next.

Easiest are well-trained seniors -they don't need much exercise. The hardest part is knowing you will lose them to old age soon. Somewhere in the middle are adult dogs and towards the harder end of the scale are the younger puppies (like 3-6 months).

If you get a 8 wk old puppy you will go through the housetraining stage, the nipping / biting stage, and the "defiant" by the end of the first year. If you get an older dog you bypass all that. Kind of like with kids

[Snowshoe]

IMHO, you can't raise a puppy if you're gone for 10 solid hours a day. Most people don't crate train, and there are many dangers in a home that a puppy can get to.

If you DO crate train a puppy and leave it alone for 10 hours a day, that's pretty cruel. Most pups can't hold their bladders for more then 2 hours at a time. That's 5 times of peeing and pooping in their crates to wait until someone comes home and lets them out.

IMHO, if you work a ton, then hire a dog walker or find a way to come home at lunch until your dog is old enough to hold it through out the day.

I think its sad when unexperienced people get puppies and expect them to raise and train themselves.

Grown dogs may be different. I don't know. Orchid is my first puppy, and she's the only experience I can speak from.

Experienced owners may be a different story, too. I just don't see how even an experienced owner can be gone for that long and still make sure that the pup is safe, and hasn't pooped all over itself with out hiring a dog walker or something.

[borzoimom]

I posted in the other section as well but the other consideration is the breed and lack of experience on the owners part- coupled with gone for a long time. Before I retired I was gone along time as well. However- I had been in dogs for quite a while- chose a breed that was calmer in nature in the house, etc. Even an adult dog new to the family needs some time to adopt and understand the rules etc. And that is with someone that knows what they are doing. Alot of behavior problems, sad but true, show in a newly adopted adult as well if left in a place they are not familiar with, a person they do not know etc.
Rotties are wonderful dogs- but they do need training and socializing and the best step would be to go to a rescue of the breed. However- I am afraid the above statements on the other thread that a rescue would adopt out is totally true.. There are the situations of a death in the family needing a home already trained etc- but those are not too often. Usually with working breeds the reason for giving up ending in rescue or a shelter is training problems.. And a puppy especially of a high energy breed that the breed standards and any breed club will say " the breed needs early training and socializing- adult or puppy.."
Each breed has a standard and a purpose and need for proper ownership. More respect to these standards and breed clubs statements need to take a higher priority. The lack of understanding a breed standard, original function of purpose and not heeding to the recommendations of the breed clubs- is PERCISELY WHY so many dogs end up in shelters.

[tirluc]

i agree w/ Skunkstripe on this one......they have never had a dog b/4 so have them start w/ a rescue/shelter dog.....one that is housetrained, etc.....the dog doesn't have to be an "older" dog, even 9-18 mo could work out......i have a friend that works 12 hr days 3 days/nights a wk and right now since he is able to he's getting OT and is working these hrs all this wk....he has 2 dogs, 1 a BC the other BC/Aussie.....two high drive dogs that most people would not be able to handle under the best of work hrs....and he's never owned a dog b/4 them.....but, he got them when they were both 1 yr, he makes sure that he is very involved w/ them when he is home (even taking them out and playing/walking w/ them individually and together when he gets home from his 12 hr day, etc......i go over 1/2 way thru the day to let them out to potty (not that they couldn't hold it that long if need be, but he is concerned about them going more then 6 hrs w/out getting outside).....

it can work but what they need to focus on is what is best for them and the dog.....and in this case, an older dog (more then 1 yr pref.) would be the best....JMO

[Shalva]

Nobody likes to hear that they would not be approved for a dog.....

I will add people to my waiting list but to be honest, my waiting list is ALWAYS longer than the number of puppies I have and people know that. If I have two homes with dog experience and one person is gone 55 hours a week and the other person is not.... then guess who is going to get the puppy. my puppy list is not a first come first served.... I take applications and then when the pups are born I go through them and pick who I think will be the best homes.

I don't make any qualms about saying that my first responsibility is to the puppy.... I to be honest don't really care if the "people" are happy with me or not..... I care about the puppy. If puppy goes to daycare then that is fine with me if a person works. If they hire a petsitter to come in for an hour.... I am not sure that I would be happy about that. Weekends are great but ya know.... again.... I don't have any responsibility to people until they get a puppy of mine, after that I have a strong responsibility to them....

and while some are saying that the person above doesn't have dog experience.... well that is true.... but even if a person has dog experience I would wonder why they would want a puppy when they are gone all day... and I would have to question how fair that is to the puppy.
S

[Wimble Woof]

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

IMHO, you can't raise a puppy if you're gone for 10 solid hours a day. Most people don't crate train, and there are many dangers in a home that a puppy can get to.


Experienced owners may be a different story, too. I just don't see how even an experienced owner can be gone for that long and still make sure that the pup is safe, and hasn't pooped all over itself with out hiring a dog walker or something.

You can indeed raise a puppy if your gone 10 hours a day. Its not that hard, sure you have to take extra precautions with puppy proofing your house, maybe even block off a section that is big enough to get around yet not too big to get into things.

House training IS indeed an obstacle as is socializing, you really have to be prepared to put in the time after work to work on these things. Your day doesnt end at 10 hours, it goes on to 16 maybe even 18 hour days. IMHO its a small sacrifice to make, loosing sleep and working hard, to make sure you are doing your best to ensure your pup is happy.

I am not looking to argue here, not at all. And each and every one of us is indeed entitled to their opinion, dont be afraid to post it,
I just really dont like it when its said that it "cant" be done properly.

Originally Posted by Shalva

Nobody likes to hear that they would not be approved for a dog.....

but even if a person has dog experience I would wonder why they would want a puppy when they are gone all day... and I would have to question how fair that is to the puppy.
S

K I was approved, thats not what this is about. And even if the breeder is just humoring me... well, that really makes no sence considering we are constantly talking. "I" have made arrangements for my future puppy to be "sat" while I am gone. BUT we are shooting for a fall/winter puppy considering we are home more. Anyways, "WHY" I want a puppy, well because I have been looking hard and researching my life long dream to show. That is the only reason I have even gone against all that is me in contacting a breeder in the first place.

I am just saying, it is possible to raise a happy and " sound" dog from a puppy if you work.

[borzoimom]

I agree Salva!

[lovezois]

I am with Borzoimom on this one

and may I just add that in the UK most rescue centres won't let you have a dog if you work and there are some breeds that they won't let you have if you have young chidren, I am not saying that these rescues are right or wrong in taking this stance. I am merely making you aware that if you were in the uK you would find it difficult to get a rescue dog.

[Wimble Woof]

Sort of ironic how here in Canada, I do rescue dogs.
In the UK though, how do they expect the new owners to give the proper care to the dogs? If they dont work?

Im truely sorry for being difficult here, but it seems rediculous.

What? Only millionaires can own dogs now? I missed that memo somewhere. *being sarcastic gotta clear that up considering things seem to be getting tense here*

Anyways, if that were the case the majority of us on here would be unable to own our dogs, honestly how many of us are millionaires?

ETA
Anywho, it is dog time now, although I would like to stick around and keep reading I do have to do dog things for a few hours.
I hope that this thread is still kickin when i come back, and also hope that people will still converse with me when i come back ( could be iffy as now im sure a ton of you have an "opinion" about me LOL)

[Snowshoe]

I don't know, maybe it's all in what you were/are comfortable with.

I didn't want to leave Orchid alone in my house for that long. Puppies can get into crazy things. They can squeeze out of X-Pens, knock them down, chew through walls and linoleum, eat carpet, wood...etc.

Plus, puppies need to eat frequently or they can get hypoglycemic or dehydrated. And, if you leave them alone with their food, they make a huge mess, or eat too much and vomit.

The thought of that terrified me as an owner, so there was a 5 month period that I didn't eat anything for lunch so that I could get home and take Orchid out.

My next puppy will be going to puppy day care during the day until he or she is 5 months old.

Even though I came home to take her out and feed her and play with her on my lunch break, I still feel like I didn't do right by her.

I don't know...I don't see a problem with people working and having dogs. Obviously, I work and have a dog. I go to school, too. I also hang out with my friends and occasionally party on weekends.

However, if I can't find someone to come and hang out with her for a while and I know I'll be gone over 5 hours, I won't go.

I DO have help, though. My boyfriend and I cohabitate, so I have his support when it comes to taking care of the dog. Lucky for us we can usually manage Orchid being in the kennel for no more then 10 hours total a day, and that includes sleep time.

I don't know how we balance everything...somehow we do...

[skunkstripe]

Well Wimble Woof I do not knwo you and I do not have an opinion about you. Maybe you know more about dogs than I do and maybe you know less. I have no way to know that.

But you bring something up that reminds me of the "the road not taken" in my own life. For most of my adult life I was dogless, because while I was making good money, I was away from home a lot. I felt that I could not give a good home to a dog. With hindsight, considering all the dogs in NEED of omes I know think that I perhaps could have given a home to a dog who needed one and saved it from death. A perfect home? No. But a decent home? most certainly. So I am not about to judge someone who come onto a dog board asking-that is half the battle IMO.

[Wimble Woof]

I honestly think the perfect home is non existant, the way I may do things, and the way others do things will never match.
Same as parenting, there is no such thing as the perfect parents, but doing the best you can with what you have, to me, makes you the perfect either pet mom or real mom.
Im not looking for, "its alright Wimble" or anything like that, I am comfortable with the way things for my "pack" work while others may not be. Thats fine.

As im sure many of the members here have already noticed, I really dont care what people think about me, real life or net life.
I wasnt seeking approval I guess is what im trying to say.
But I really just cant grasp my mind around the concept that if you work long hours and live atleast an hour from your work, you arent in the position to have a dog thing.
I guess it may have struck a nerve? Perhaps its offensive to me? Im not sure, but either way, it hit home because that is how I live and most likely always will.

ETA
I am just thankful that my dogs are here with me. I know some people who are home far more than I am but do FAR less with their dogs ( if they even remember that they have one)
I would have a hard time being a breeder, Shalva, you definately have a tough job in finding the closest to perfect home I dont doubt that.
I would spend too much time on the individual circumstances I think.
Guess its a good thing Im not a breeder. lol

[borzoimom]

Wimble woof- I see your point. However- some of us have done rescue in our breeds for years. And countless times- it comes out of situations like this. The good intentions of the owner or not- we end up having to deal with it. When I was helping in shepherd rescue- it just broke your heart sometimes. You get this call " I am having a baby- shepherds turn on their owners- can you come get the dog tomorrow? " . Or- " I dont know whats wrong this chewing manic - he was so good as a puppy.."
If the person is determined to get a dog- situation aside, if they seek help, and dedicated to the dog- it MIGHT work. The problem is always potentially " impulse" ownership. Alot of working breeds people have a macho set up of owning one- and this ends up a royal mess. If he is willing- in his free time, to dedicate to the dog, it might work- but not with a puppy. Those months go by so fast and sets alot of behaviors or how they react to things set far into concrete- making things hard to correct -- all because there was no one there.. And getting even a 9 month old is hard. Those bad teeth are cutting in, but the dog is strong enough to do major damage = not just to furniture or walls- but the dog his/her self from consuming what they should not. And this is too long a time to be crated. Those developing muscles have to be worked- ie play to support those rapidly growing bones which makes another issue.. ( and if you in rescue the Letter of a rescuer-"" you will see how bad things get..

[Snowshoe]

Good post, Borzoi mom.

BTW- Wimble, I also see where you're coming from. As I said, it's all in doing whatever YOU as a dog owner feel is best.

Doing "right" by a dog can take so many forms.

[Shalva]

wimble I didn't take your comments as being anything but a discussion. I know that the breeder of my foundation bitch is now requiring her families to have a dog door which I refuse to have.... and its hard to hear that I wouldn't qualify from a puppy from her in the future (if she didn't know me as she does now) but as a breeder its really hard and you are right there is no perfect home and some things as a breeder you have to just let go of in hopes that you make the best and right decision for your pup.
I don't work full time now and have way more time home with pups than I have in the past... and its been hard.... of course I judge a case by case.... but I think if a person works full time... and I understand everyone or most everyone does, then they need to show me that they have considered the care of the pup and how they will handle the pup being home alone alot if they can do that then we are good, I woudln't automatically rule them out but they would have some convincing to do.
s

[borzoimom]

man - I could never have a dog door here too much wildlife in the yard or maybe coming in and I do not have my dogs wear collars in the house so even the tag door is out of the question. I would never leave my dogs loose in a yard if I were not home...