DNA testing for dogs

threedognite · 05-22-2007, 12:17 PM

I just saw on the Internet this morning that scientists have come up with a test kit for vets to tell you what breed your dog is. A couple took their mix breed dog in to be tested and turns out he is part German Shepherd, part Doxie and part Cairn Terrier. I can only imagine how much that test costs!!!

BoxMeIn21 · 05-22-2007, 01:38 PM

Actually this was discussed on here at while back, I think it's like $68 bucks??? Not too bad - the only drawback right now is that they have a limited amount of recognizable breeds. I know Skunkstripe got Zircon's DNA tested...not sure what the outcome was. It's certainly interesting though!

skunkstripe · 05-22-2007, 05:41 PM

The outcome was "inconclusive".
As of now they can ID 38 breeds, which is not very many.
If the breed that is in your dog is not on the list, you get a false positive result for whatever breeds were the ancestors of the breed. Like for example if Zircon is part Jack Russell Terrier, since the JRT is not on the list, it picked up Yorkie instead. The Yorkie is currently the ONLY terrier breed on the ID list.

What I found out was that there is NO Labby in him, definitely some terrier, and also some "Asian" breeds (like Akita or Chow).

This is the test:
http://www.mmigenomics.com/products2a.html

They actually CALLED me to discuss the results! Talk about personal attention! They said I could have my $$ back if I was not satisified but that they would re-run the DNA sample in any case this coming September when they plan to have 100 breeds on the list. I said to keep the money, it is worh the entertainment value!

BoxMeIn21 · 05-22-2007, 05:46 PM

Ah - there you are. Interesting...and yes, I would call that personal attention.

Quincy · 05-22-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skunkstripe

this coming September when they plan to have 100 breeds on the list.

Before they released the new DNA test on the market with 38 breeds on the list, I heard they were already "beta testing" for with yet more breeds to extend the list, and when the list is extended I then might test my doggies for the entertainment value! I also heard that for some breeds that "look too similar to some other" they just extend on the number of SNP they look at, and in such cases the cost of testing may increase.

Just wanted to edit in this as I found it again, and note the below and from another forum where they also got replies and from this address:-
http://www.dockdogs.com/component/op.../topic,9703.15

Here is another mail I got from them:

I did not intend to imply that we have no interest in the American Pit Bull Terrier, that is most definitely not the case. My sincere apologies if this is the case. Our company does a lot of testing with this breed through registries such as the American Dog Breeders Association and the UKC and has done so for many years. At this stage we have decided not to include the American Pit Bull Terrier in our test for the following reasons.

The science in this area of genomics is new and we are pioneering the way in developing this canine Breed Heritage Test. Including the American Pit Bull Terrier in the test would require additional research and testing to ensure the test can accurately determine if a particular dog includes APBT in its composition. We are fully aware of the legal and ethical ramifications of a test for this particular breed, which is why we chose to proceed cautiously for the APBT. We do not wish the test in its current form or any future incarnation to be possibly abused to the detriment of APBT owners or of the dogs themselves.

We are constantly evaluating the current breeds in the test and any future possible breeds.

Yours sincerely,

xxxx xxxx
.

skunkstripe · 05-23-2007, 01:28 PM

Quincy that is very interesting! My reading of that is that they do not feel that they do not want to get into the APBT vs AmStaff distinction. How can they, when supposedly an AmStaff registered with the AKC can easily be dual registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier with the UKC?
The last thing they want to risk is getting sued (and some fool would probably try) so I don't blame them for staying away from it.

borzoimom · 05-23-2007, 01:40 PM

The sad thing about the dna testings, is that it was derived from identifying breeds subject to bans in cities or counties and the top breeds with registered on the bans are mostly breeds that fall in these catagories.
NOw they have figured out that they can make money by isolating other breeds. Here a "pitt type" or "pitt mix" is banned from the whole county. And they use this test to determine if the mix is in there or not..
The other sad about this is that your dog maybe mostly border collie for example, but if way back there in the mix with a mix breed- there was one am.staff or rott etc- your dog will show higher in that am.staff etc mix because the dna was targetted as that.

skunkstripe · 05-23-2007, 01:46 PM

Actually mmigenomics has been in business since 1994 and has ben serving the agricultural market (cattle, swine, poultry and aquaculture). They have only recently branched out into the "companion animals" market.

borzoimom · 05-23-2007, 01:48 PM

Exactly- only recently- and the reason originally is to determin if the dog is a mix of a banned breed.. Whether the dog is a risk or not..

skunkstripe · 05-23-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

Exactly- only recently- and the reason originally is to determin if the dog is a mix of a banned breed.. Whether the dog is a risk or not..

I am curious why you say this.

Here is the list of the 38 breeds which mmigenomics claims to be able to identify:
Afghan Hound, Akita, Basenji, Basset Hound, Beagle, Belgian Tervuren, Bernese Mountain Dog, Border Collie, Borzoi, Boxer, Bulldog, Chihuahua, Chinese Shar-Pei, Chow Chow, Cocker Spaniel, Collie, Dachshund, Doberman Pinscher, English Setter, German Shepherd, German Shorthaired Pointer, Golden Retriever, Greyhounds, Italian Greyhound, Labrador Retriever, Mastiff, Miniature Schnauzer, Poodle, Pug, Rottweiler, Saluki, Samoyed, Shetland Sheepdog, Shih-Tzu, Siberian Husky, St. Bernard, Whippet, Yorkshire Terrier

It looks more like "fun with your mystery dog" to me.

borzoimom · 05-23-2007, 02:16 PM

If you look at the current list- its all breeds on most band lists- the the top breeds by the akc. ( except italian greys- but sighthounds are all similar in genetics.. ) However- in the UK they have banned sighthounds. I will have a friend of mine- loving paws resend me the link. So having sighthounds on there makes sense. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640199376,00.html

Quincy · 05-24-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

If you look at the current list- its all breeds on most band lists- the the top breeds by the akc. ( except italian greys- but sighthounds are all similar in genetics.. ) However- in the UK they have banned sighthounds.

I don't know much about the UK scene, but maybe the word restricted to some breeds might apply rather than banned. Take for example greyhound racing which is quite popular in the UK and many do own these sighthounds, these are restricted but people can own them providing they comply to certain requirements.

I'm aware that some countries may have banned or restricted some breeds. This seemed to come about by dog attacks on people or attacks on pets being taken for walks plus with an increase in media coverage regarding this. Politicians were then put in the situation to somehow deal with it, and where they thought it easiest to achieve and for the future that it best to ban or restrict some breeds.
Take for example Australia where it introduced Federal, State and Local Laws, and the example of a State Law copied below and from this address:-
http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/dlg_cainfo.asp

What is a restricted breed?

Under the Companion Animals Act five breeds of dog are restricted breeds. These are breeds of dogs which are currently under import restrictions by the Commonwealth Government, and which it is considered require particular care to ensure safe ownership.

The breeds concerned are pit bull terriers, American pit bull terriers, Japanese tosas, Argentinian fighting dogs (dogo Argentino), and Brazilian fighting dogs (fila Brasileiro).

Owners of dogs of these breeds are required to comply with conditions similar to those which apply to dogs which have been declared dangerous. This includes the requirement to keep the dog in a child-proof enclosure and display an official dangerous dog warning sign. Owners must ensure that the dog is not at any time in sole charge of person under 18 and that it is leashed and muzzled when in public. Under no circumstances can a dangerous dog be sold to anyone under 18 years of age.

Owners of restricted dogs must supply information to their local council about where the dog is kept, including details of any move or other changes of information. Council must be informed within 24 hours if the dog becomes lost or attacks an animal or person.

A maximum penalty of $5,500 applies for the breach of any of these conditions.

Getting back regarding this DNA test, I feel that the DNA company involved are aware regarding the legal and ethical ramifications of some breeds worldwide, and why they mentioned this and which would similarly apply to those other breeds concerned, quote again:-
"We are fully aware of the legal and ethical ramifications of a test for this particular breed, which is why we chose to proceed cautiously for the APBT. We do not wish the test in its current form or any future incarnation to be possibly abused to the detriment of APBT owners or of the dogs themselves."

skunkstripe is correct and the DNA companies started in the agricultural market (cattle, swine, poultry and aquaculture) and this is the BIG market where they can make HEAPS OF PROFIT. The "companion animals" market came later and was a "spin-off", and where it's projected they will make only about $50 Million profit in the US from "companion animals", more worldwide and more over the years to come, BUT this really is a miniscule ammount of profit compared to the world market on (cattle, swine, poultry and aquaculture).
.

borzoimom · 05-25-2007, 08:23 AM

For dog owners intested in DNA. Today on the NBC morning show, they tested Merridiths dog ( one of the anchors). She was told that the dog was a Aussie/ Poo. Turns out the dog is ( drum roll) Aussie, sheltie and Borzoi!! ( never would have guessed that one as the dog looks nothing like a Borzoi.. lol)
Anyway- there are labs now ( 6 of them in the US) that can test OVER 140 BREEDS! That is almost all of the AKC breeds. As soon as they post what they said on the show ( usually a few hours) I will post the link. But I thought that was so cool some labatories can do soooo many more breeds!

sheplovr · 05-25-2007, 09:02 AM

I saw that on morning show, she was NOT happy at all about that. I have my dogs DNA through the AKC. Safe when breeding with more than one male also. It cost for one dog $50.00.

Quincy · 05-25-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

For dog owners intested in DNA. Today on the NBC morning show, they tested Merridiths dog ( one of the anchors). She was told that the dog was a Aussie/ Poo. Turns out the dog is ( drum roll) Aussie, sheltie and Borzoi!! ( never would have guessed that one as the dog looks nothing like a Borzoi.. lol)
Anyway- there are labs now ( 6 of them in the US) that can test OVER 140 BREEDS! That is almost all of the AKC breeds. As soon as they post what they said on the show ( usually a few hours) I will post the link. But I thought that was so cool some labatories can do soooo many more breeds!

With 6 labs doing the test I suppose in cases where things don't seem right, then one could do a checking test with another company.

6 with over 140 breeds, sounds like the one with only 38 breeds so far is dragging it's heels. I wonder if the others have the same legal and ethical views concerning breeds such as the APBT.

When available please post what they said on the show, I'm interested and thank you in advance.
.

skunkstripe · 05-25-2007, 02:26 PM

What a hoot!
I saw the video clip from the TV show-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032633/
That is the same company that is doing the test for Zircon! I talked to that guy on the phone!

borzoimom · 05-25-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skunkstripe

What a hoot!
I saw the video clip from the TV show-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032633/
That is the same company that is doing the test for Zircon! I talked to that guy on the phone!

So- why is it they say only 38 they told you, and on the news it said 140 breeds? I mean- wouldnt it be easier if all 6 labs did the 140 breeds??? Frustrating isnt it???

Lynn918 · 05-25-2007, 02:47 PM

I just heard about this test. I'm getting my dog tested. Everybody always wants to know what kind of dog he is. I know that his mother is shih tzu, but not sure what his father is. He looks like he has poodle in him, but he also has a long body (daschund?). Can't wait for the results.

skunkstripe · 05-25-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borzoimom

So- why is it they say only 38 they told you, and on the news it said 140 breeds? I mean- wouldnt it be easier if all 6 labs did the 140 breeds??? Frustrating isnt it???

No it is not frustrating at all. I have worked in laboratories and/ or universities all my life so I am familiar with how these places operate. All it means is that they are 100 % confident of the 38. As far as the other 102 go, in fact they can detect them, but the level of certainty is lower. That does not bother me in the least. Like I said, I talked to the guy on the phone and it was fascinating. I was able to get a lot more detail than they would put on a short news clip for the general public. He also sent me an interesting email with some additional info. I find it very exciting to be in on this near the beginning.

borzoimom · 05-25-2007, 02:54 PM

That dog of hers looked NOTHING like a Borzoi.. lol..