Blue heeler concerns

dogtrouble · 08-08-2006, 12:45 PM

We have a 3yr old blue heeler. She is spayed and has been quite a slug her whole life.She is very loving and affectionate. She loves other dogs, but I don't think I want another dog if I have problems handling this one. She love people also, but sometimes is to pushy. I have been watching Cesar Milan on the t.v. and know that some of her behaviors are due to lack of excercise. She is very aggressive when we take her on a walk. She goes bolistic when a car goes by and if someone is one the road or in the area we are walking. She jumps and pulls on the leash. She also barks at people and dogs when she is in the car/pickup on a ride. She rides inside the vehicles as I can't bring myself to put her loose in the back of the pickup. But when I put her in a kennel in the box of the truck she is MUCH better. And when people leave I don't trust her as far as nipping them. I don't want to put her to sleep...but the humane society here won't take her as she has a nip/bite on her record. It turned out the guy she healed, was a con artist...I am not saying she was correct in nipping him..but he was out for a quick buck and knows the insurance system well. But she was wrong to go after him at all!!!!!! We try to get her more excersice....I am just wandering if anyone has a heeler or knows much about them. This is our second one, but I guess the first on was one in a million. She was well socialized, this one is not. HELP I would even give her to a good home if I could find one. Someone who knew how to handle heelers.
I could use all the help I can get. I have had her in training classes. But we are in a small area, and there is only one here.
Thank you

Amanda21 · 08-08-2006, 02:07 PM

I have the same problem with one of my dogs also. but she's a Springer. My family and I didn't expose her to people, or other animals when we got her. and whenever i tried to take her for a walk, and she saw other people she got sooo scared. and whenever theres people that she doesnt know she barks and growls at them non stop. theres nothing we can do with her, she's already to old and set in her ways. she's 6 years old.

I'd say just have pations with her. and keep correcting her. but i'm sure theres someone on here who will have more ideas for you.

Goodluck!

opokki · 08-08-2006, 10:26 PM

Besides walking, does she get any other form of exercise or mental stimulation?

What are you learning in training class so far?

Are you interested in keeping her if you can get a handle on these issues?

Quote:

She love people also, but sometimes is to pushy

What do you mean by "pushy"? Can you give a specific example?

So she is friendly with people inside your home but outside of the home she is not? And the guy she bit...where was he when this occurred?

Curbside Prophet · 08-08-2006, 11:15 PM

I'd also like to know how she acts off the leash. Does she ever get off leash time? Or would she take off running? What do you do for corrections or discipline? Also, I'm glad you chose not to let your dog loose in the back of your truck. At the very least she should be tied down with a leash to prevent her from jumping out. So good choice there.

dogtrouble · 08-09-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opokki

Besides walking, does she get any other form of exercise or mental stimulation?

What are you learning in training class so far?

Are you interested in keeping her if you can get a handle on these issues?

What do you mean by "pushy"? Can you give a specific example?

So she is friendly with people inside your home but outside of the home she is not? And the guy she bit...where was he when this occurred?

Thank you for your response.
She does get some obedience mental stimulation. She has commands...such as she sits at the door, I am the first on through, sit and stay to eat when I say, daily things like that. We all work, so we are gone all day. I have thought about getting her some sheep to work as excercise also. What do you think?
The dog training we went to was not real extensive...But I did learn things there...my thoughts are you learn something new everyday no matter how old you are. But I do need more help.Obviously
Yes I would like to keep her if I can get these things under control. She would get to go for rides more often and go more places, like hiking etc., if I could get these things under control.
Pushy: she likes to be center of attention...so what I tell the family is don't look at her and give her attention right away. Come home do some things then pay attention to her. Don't give her the idea it is all about her. She will jump and lick. Also, when someone comes and we are outside she is barky and runs, except I have her on a leash, to the cars and sometimes jumps, tail wagging, on the car. Not good. Sometimes she is almost worse on a leash than not on one.
She is friendly inside the house and usually out, after her first reactions, but it is the leaving. The point where someone says,deep breath " Well I guess I better go" is like a trigger. She gets agressive at that point. So she knows thins means someone will be leaving. Then she gets agressive. Barky and moves forward.
The guy she bit was a stranger, who dilivered some concrete. The concrete layers were here also, she likes licky to them, but not aggressive. The driver go out of the biggggg truck then turned and walked away and she nipped him. She was on leash but I wasn't expecting it.
I would be willing to give her to a new home, under the correct circumstances. Rather than the OTHER option if necessary. I really do think she is savable, but needs firmer control that what we give.
I hope I answered all you questions, I really appreciate all of them.

kellymac · 08-09-2006, 02:05 PM

We don't have a blue heeler, but we do have a border collie/australian shepherd female that is 8, almost 9 months old. She is a little pushy at times. Especially when you first walk in the door. She likes to be rubbed and played with right away. SHe won't leave you alone until you do so. She jumps all over you and licks. She also jumps on cars when they pull in and park. She also thinks that if anyone is leaving, she has to go with them. She will go to the vehicle and jump in it when they open the door. Especially with me and my boyfriend. She does get a lot of exercise. We have cows, and a couple barn cats. The house is also surrounded on two sides by hay fields, so she likes to chase the deer and ground hogs that come into the field. I know that Daisy, the dog, is a lot younger than your dog, but I do know that most cattle/sheep dogs have quite an attitude and a whole lot of energy and can sometimes be a real pain. Especially border collies and blue healers. They don't like being told no and they do like to run and play. I have also found that most of them like to be the center of attention. Daisy does. She has to be in the middle of everything. Even when we go to bed she gets mad if I even look at Clint, boyfriend, in the bed. She also sleeps right in between us.
We also work all day and she spends her day in her pen. When we get home she is wide open. My advice would be to give her something to do. Daisy goes with us to work the cows, feed the cows, put up, etc. They like to be involved. She goes with us everywhere, even to the grocery store. Tell her hi when you walk in the door and pet her. It helps a lot. I know that sometimes you don't have time to. But I have learned with most cattle/sheep dogs you have to do these things. They can also be aggresive dogs. That's something that comes with the dog. Daisy can be that way too. I know it's a lot to read and sorry it's so long, but you really need to think about everything that comes with these kinds of dogs. A lot of them are really high maintenance.

opokki · 08-10-2006, 12:23 AM

Does she like to play fetch at all? If so, this is a great way to burn off excess energy. And I think herding might be a good thing to get into with her if you can.

Other forms of mental stimulation -
Instead of just placing her food in a bowl, stick it in toys and treat balls so she has to work to get it. There are quite a variety of such toys available at most pet supply stores so this might be something to consider. Kongs, Twist n' Treat, Buster Cube are a few products that come to mind. Kongs can be stuffed with all kinds of good stuff and will keep her busy and out of trouble.

Look into clicker training too. This can be used to quickly and easily teach a "watch me" cue, to get her to defer to you rather than focus on the things going on around her, among many other things. You don't necessarily need a clicker to teach these things but I find it much easier to do so.

Learn how to teach her a placement cue and use this for when visitors are coming in and leaving. Since she is reactive to people leaving this may take many practice sessions but will be well worth it.

Here are a few links that I think you might find useful:
ClickerSolutions Home
clicker training for dogs clicker training for obedience
Karen Pryor Clicker Training: clicker training for dogs, stop dog barking, dog obedience training
CareNTraining

Think about trying her on a head collar like the Gentle Leader or Halti. This will give you better control of her while working her outdoors.

Check out Association of Pet Dog Trainers to see if there are more trainers in your area.

dogtrouble · 08-10-2006, 09:51 AM

Thank you again for your suggestions. It is greatly appreciated. I have a halti and do like it, but when walking she still wants to chase a distraction. I guess I should be more dominate packleader status. I will try the feeding trick. She isn't much of a fetcher, in fact I just taught her to fetch. She has not been a for it, but I went online and got instructions to teach it..can you believe it. But out other heeler was BIG on fetching and I know it was her release. She also had the chasing problem, but was better at minding. But the motorcycle is what killed her. I will heed all you words and look into things more. When the wheat is cut she will have a field to run in, but when she sees activity on the road, bikes, kids, etc she takes off. Sometimes she is good,it seems to depend on the timing maybe. I will greatly appreciate any other ideas. I have even wondered about teaching her to herd, somewhat, and use that as an excersice. I saw something on this website so I think I will check it out. Maybe if I can teach her to herd I can teach her to focus.
Thanks

opokki · 08-10-2006, 09:36 PM

One more thing I forgot to mention -

Its a good idea to get your dog to stay focused and master obedience cues without distractions first and then very gradually introduce her to more and more distractions starting with very low distractions. Set her up to succeed. It might even be a good idea to avoid normal activities for now until she reaches the level of training in which she can successfully handle them. You should be able to keep her attention if you work with her where things she likes to chase are at a distance where she notices them but can still focus on you...with success at a distance you can gradually move closer. If you lose her focus at any point, you have moved ahead too quickly and need to take a step back.

dogtrouble · 08-12-2006, 04:42 PM

Off leash around the yard she is o.k. But if she sees something she wants to chase, kids,(not good) bikes, motorcycles etc. Then she is off like a streak. We live off the main road a ways so that is good, she can't run that fast to get there. When she is outside she just looks and watches the road to see whats happening. I just can't give up on her. I feel it is our fault for not teaching her what she needs, but getting that part right is very important. I would love to be able to take her to the river, slough, hiking in the hills and mtns. etc. But with her behavior, she doesn't get to go often. I just need to find the right button. Discipline and strick rules I guess is a good place to start. Thanks

dogtrouble · 08-12-2006, 04:46 PM

Vanessa,Thanks again for all your help and words of wisdom. I will take heed and work on focus. She does pretty good around the house then when we are outside and the distractions are there, she's like a differant dog. Her wild side comes out. I will look at clicker training and have you or anyone used or know about the Pattison Trainer in Canada, he has an advertisement on the home page.? Is his method good?

opokki · 08-12-2006, 05:10 PM

Your welcom. I don't see the adverstisement for the Pattison Trainer in Canada. Can you post the link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtrouble

Vanessa,Thanks again for all your help and words of wisdom. I will take heed and work on focus. She does pretty good around the house then when we are outside and the distractions are there, she's like a differant dog. Her wild side comes out. I will look at clicker training and have you or anyone used or know about the Pattison Trainer in Canada, he has an advertisement on the home page.? Is his method good?

opokki · 08-12-2006, 05:30 PM

Nevermind, I found it. I checked it out but I can't say whether his method is good or not because he doesn't state exactly what is done to the dogs.
.................................................. ....................
Edit:
Okay, so I downloaded the free info he offers.....
I read about how to teach a dog to sit. His method, at least for teaching sit, relys on force. I'm a huge fan of hands-free training where a dog must think and choose to act rather than blindly being forced into position.

He also seems to stress that treats are not good for training, refers to them as bribery, and claims they will not allow your dog to be reliable. I completely disagree with this, although, I have no doubt that treats can be used incorrectly just as any other training aid can be.
When treats are consistantly offered to get a behavior rather than to reward a behavior...problems are sure to arise. With Natalie, I use treats to train new behaviors but once she knows the behavior I only offer treats intermittently and in combination with a variety of other rewards. Her behavior makes the reward happen, not the other way around and she is very reliable and continues to impress me everyday.

I'm not suggesting that you should not look into this trainer but I did want to point out that treats aren't a bad thing. If you are interested in clicker training, treats are the most used reward because they are convenient and easy to quickly administer.

dogtrouble · 08-12-2006, 07:33 PM

Vanessa,
Thanks again for your input.

tmaddox · 08-16-2006, 01:09 PM

We have a 4 year old Blue heeler, female, spayed and your post describes her to a tee. From what I have learned, heelers have a strong herding instinct. We have curbed our heelers herding some, she still thinks small childre should all be in a circle and will nip at them. When out for walks she will try to nip at joggers and bicyclers, I think it is the fast motion she feels the need to stop. We have started taking her out on walks with a muzzle. I got the kind with an open end so she can still pant and drink water. The muzzle alows us to take her in public, with out fear of nipping, and hopefully teach her to socialize better. As for riding in the bed of the truck, that scares me. Herding dogs expecially will jump out with out even thinking. Crating her in the bed or allowing her inside would be the best options. We have dog seatbelts for our heeler and border collie for when we have the top down in the Jeep.

dogtrouble · 08-17-2006, 08:04 PM

opokki,
Other than sit stay etc. What other types of focus should I work on. I have had her sit and have afamily member walk past or make a noise...and she should stayfocused on me.... are things like this correct? From past experience, I don't imagine having her run alongside a 4 wheeler or little trail bike would beneficial! Our other heeler loved it, but she also was killed by a bad motorcycle driver. I don't really want to start a differant habit and make it worse. I am thinking of what to do to get her more excercise. On Cesar he shows using a treadmill. Very carefully of course.

opokki · 08-18-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtrouble

opokki,
Other than sit stay etc. What other types of focus should I work on. I have had her sit and have afamily member walk past or make a noise...and she should stayfocused on me.... are things like this correct?

Yes. Also, be sure to vary your distractions but don't overwhelm her....set her up to succeed. If you can consistantly keep her focus while a family member walks by, next have a family member jog by, run by, walk between the two of you, run between the two of you, jog in circles around the two of you, ride a bike past you (not all in the same session though), ect....be creative. Put her on a down stay and walk around her yourself, run around her, dance around her, ect. If she is too distracted and breaks simply put her back in position and try again but have the family member stay at a distance in the beginning while doing some of these things, gradually moving closer as she succeeds.

flip195 · 08-18-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtrouble

We have a 3yr old blue heeler. She is spayed and has been quite a slug her whole life.She is very loving and affectionate. She loves other dogs, but I don't think I want another dog if I have problems handling this one. She love people also, but sometimes is to pushy. I have been watching Cesar Milan on the t.v. and know that some of her behaviors are due to lack of excercise. She is very aggressive when we take her on a walk. She goes bolistic when a car goes by and if someone is one the road or in the area we are walking. She jumps and pulls on the leash. She also barks at people and dogs when she is in the car/pickup on a ride. She rides inside the vehicles as I can't bring myself to put her loose in the back of the pickup. But when I put her in a kennel in the box of the truck she is MUCH better. And when people leave I don't trust her as far as nipping them. I don't want to put her to sleep...but the humane society here won't take her as she has a nip/bite on her record. It turned out the guy she healed, was a con artist...I am not saying she was correct in nipping him..but he was out for a quick buck and knows the insurance system well. But she was wrong to go after him at all!!!!!! We try to get her more excersice....I am just wandering if anyone has a heeler or knows much about them. This is our second one, but I guess the first on was one in a million. She was well socialized, this one is not. HELP I would even give her to a good home if I could find one. Someone who knew how to handle heelers.
I could use all the help I can get. I have had her in training classes. But we are in a small area, and there is only one here.
Thank you

Your dog is being a typical heeler that has recieved little or no training.
Heelers are highly intelligent, work oriented dogs that need a job/training.
I would suggest you start NILIF Today, if you go to my website you will see a link to some basic guides.

What is her drive, chasing ball, swimming, running???

A tired dog is a good dog, so exercise and lots of it is needed here.

Sounds to me like your dog is already heading down a rocky road and you need to take action now, before anything bad happens.

Hope this helps

dogtrouble · 08-18-2006, 08:36 PM

flip195,
thank you for you input I willl check out your site for sure. Where is your rescue at? We really do want to help her so she will get to do more things out and away from home, as she loves to go. Which is strange as when she was a pup she was car sick for a long time. And her manners in the car are so bad it is difficult to take her places and certainly does not get out when we go places. Unless there is nobody around. I will heed any help I find.
Thanks

flip195 · 08-18-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtrouble

flip195,
thank you for you input I willl check out your site for sure. Where is your rescue at? We really do want to help her so she will get to do more things out and away from home, as she loves to go. Which is strange as when she was a pup she was car sick for a long time. And her manners in the car are so bad it is difficult to take her places and certainly does not get out when we go places. Unless there is nobody around. I will heed any help I find.
Thanks

I actually don't have a rescue as such, i work with a network of rescues, pulling from pounds/ shelters, placing them in foster care, transporting etc. One place you may like to try and get some advice at is Abused animal rescue and rehabilitation farm and foundation, this is a small rescue that deals mostly with acd's, if you contact them by email they will be able to set you in the right direction. They have far more info and contacts than I do.
I will say acd's do respond well to NILIF training.