[anjamaka]

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

Why isn't she out protesting a pet store, or an Amish puppy mill?

Answer: she'll get more attention for her group if she protests at an AKC show.

That's what it's all about for her, at least this time.

Now, THAT's distorted, huh?

An Amish puppy mill? don't you think that was a little prejudice? It isnt the amish who have puppy mills, it is people in Lancaster County. I live in pennsylvania and my family has a great relationship with the Amish, that was very offensive.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by xoxluvablexox

The fact is, a dog is not your property any more then another human being is and since laws support people that think that a dog is theres to do whatever with, sometimes those laws have to be dismissed by the person to do a greater good. If I saw a man beating his dog I would grab that dog away from him and if he tried to take that dog from me I would probably protect myself and the dog. He has No right, no matter how much he paid for that dog, to think he could do that to another living thing.

From Wikipedia on a search for "citizen's arrest", so take it for what it's worth.

A person who makes a citizen's arrest could risk exposing themselves to possible lawsuits or criminal charges (such as charges of impersonating police, false imprisonment, kidnapping, or wrongful arrest) if the wrong person is apprehended or a suspect's civil rights are violated.

The level of responsibility that a person performing a citizen's arrest may bear depends on the jurisdiction. For instance, in France and Germany, a person stopping a criminal from committing a crime, including crimes against belongings, is not criminally responsible as long as the means employed are in proportion to the threat (note, however, that at least in Germany this results from a different legal norm: "self-defense" and "aid to others in immediate danger"—which are concerned with prevention not prosecution of crimes).

[ChRotties]

Originally Posted by anjamaka

An Amish puppy mill? don't you think that was a little prejudice? It isnt the amish who have puppy mills, it is people in Lancaster County. I live in pennsylvania and my family has a great relationship with the Amish, that was very offensive.

Umm, hate to bust your bubble, but, YES, the Amish DO HAVE PUPPY MILLS!
In addition, some just fall into the category of BYB, since they do no health testing or showing.

[xoxluvablexox]

So bassicaly I'ed go to jail because it would be considered kidnapping, or in this case dognapping. Is it a persons civil right to beat a dog or leave it out on the end of a chain, sick and dieing?
If it is then that would be fun, "What are you in for?" "Oh, well you see. I saved a dogs life but I violated a persons rights, so here I am. How about you?" "Just murdered a couple people."

Yupp, laws are just work wonderfully for the poor doggies in America now don't they?

[cshellenberger]

Originally Posted by anjamaka

An Amish puppy mill? don't you think that was a little prejudice? It isnt the amish who have puppy mills, it is people in Lancaster County. I live in pennsylvania and my family has a great relationship with the Amish, that was very offensive.

I've been to Amish owned puppy mills in Lancaster county as well as those owned by Mennonites in Somerset and Cumberland counties.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by xoxluvablexox

Is it a persons civil right to beat a dog or leave it out on the end of a chain, sick and dieing?

I would hope in all jurisdictions no one has this right. I would also hope action was taked before the dog could get to a point where it would die. Where the failure is in that system, to me, is where the focus should be.

IMO, it's better to follow the law so as not to exclude any potential for recourse. If you break those laws, you assume a risk, and potentially no recourse.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I would hope in all jurisdictions no one has this right. I would also hope action was taked before the dog could get to a point where it would die. Where the failure is in that system, to me, is where the focus should be.

IMO, it's better to follow the law so as not to exclude any potential for recourse. If you break those laws, you assume a risk, and potentially no recourse.

Very good point!
One thing that should certainly be gleaned from this thread is to report suspected neglect and abuse and know the best and most effective orginization to deal with it expediently and lawfully. Here in the UK it is the RSPCA. www.rspca.org.uk. They list all local offices and their 24 hour emergency number is 0870 55 55999
Unlike the police their sole committment is the welfare of animals

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by Tamara

Very good point!
One thing that should certainly be gleaned from this thread is to report suspected neglect and abuse and know the best and most effective orginization to deal with it expediently and lawfully. Here in the UK it is the RSPCA. www.rspca.org.uk. They list all local offices and their 24 hour emergency number is 0870 55 55999
Unlike the police their sole committment is the welfare of animals

And when that fails to accomlish anything as it did in the Tammy Grimes rescue of the left to die, tied to a tree, then you act like a caring human being and take a risk and do whatever you have to do to save the dog. All life is taking risks, there are no guarantees in life. At the end of the day, you will feel like you did the right thing instead of taking the easy way out. That is what Tammy Grimes did.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Do I need to know to disagree with how you simplified Dobe's post? Frankly, Tammy isn't even a blip on my radar, but that doesn't mean I don't understand the bigger picture here, nor do I have to agree with how Tammy and you would approach it. If the dog was in such danger, I don't know why I can make a simple phone call and have the proper authorities banging on my neighbor's door and Tammy can't. That's a problem, and the bigger issue here.

I guess this is the 10th time this has been said, but I will try once more ....... Tammy Did call for help multiple times !!!!!! Nothing was done!!!!!!!!!

[xoxluvablexox]

"We got a call from Kim Eicher in East Freedom 9/11/06, crying because Doogie hadn't gotten up since Saturday. She had been calling the Central Pennsylvania Humane Society since Saturday to no avail. We told her we aren't law officers, and she needed to call the Humane Officer. We told her to make sure she left a message, very clearly, about the problem. Then we got another call about the same dog, from another person who passes him every day. At that point we called Kim back to see if she'd heard from the Humane Officer. She had not, was very, very upset and we were very worried about him, so we promised her we'd go out and see what we could do."

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.org/doogie.html

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Lover

Well Captbob, I will have to take your side on this one. I was under the impression these forums were for open discussion and not intended to only have one side. Open discussion should be labeled a debate and not necessarily an arguement.

Personally I would break someones door down to get in their house to save their dog if the house was on fire. I know the dog is only their property and I am breaking the law to enter the house that way but so be it. Some situations require extreme measures.


I believe some of the parties here evidentually have had very bad experiences with extremists and have very strong feelings and I can respect that view also. I too question the agenda of extreme groups such as PETA and Greenpeace. You really have to get the real information about groups in order to make a sound judgement, not just listen to the liberally bias media.

First of all, the entire thread started with someone claiming that a horrendous situation was about to happen at a dog show in Harrisburg.....By "Tammy Grimes and her Cohorts from Dog;s deserve better". Did it happen, No, apparently, because nobody saw the sky fall this weekend. Then the topic of dog's deserve better came and Tammy's role in saving a dog that was left to die tied to a tree for days, with no food and water, while the owners were on vacation in another state. Was this stated in the OP, nope not word of it. Finally after trying numberous times to get someone in this small town to react, she took the matter in her own hands and rescued the dog and drove it to a vet. The Vet said that it was just about dead when he got. Now we hear from the Monday Morning Quarterbacks that " She shouldn't have butted in, she should have left it to the officials to do something about it, reated over and over again " I tried explaining to these posters what the situation was that caused her actions, and despite everything, they still claim she should have left the dog to die, but they won't come right out and say that......." '

This situation with Tammy Grimes has nothing to do with Greenpeace, Peta, or any other terrorist group . It is about a women who had alot of courage and went out on a limb and rescued a dog that was half dead. I bet that is alot more than some of the people contributing to this thread would do. I have had bad experiences in my life too, with people that would rather hide in their homes when something bad happens, because they don't want to stick their neck out and do the right thing. I think they are alot more dangerous to our society than some AR group......

And if that was your dog tied to that tree, I bet you would feel the same way....

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by Captbob

I guess this is the 10th time this has been said, but I will try once more ....... Tammy Did call for help multiple times !!!!!! Nothing was done!!!!!!!!!

I don't know if this is the 10th time I've said this, I haven't been keeping track, but I don't care about Tammy Bob, nor did I say she didn't do all that she could. Get over it already. I'm more concerned about your last statement, and why nothing was done.

A month ago my neighbor's dog was living in it's own feces. Why is it that I can make one phone call and have the authorities banging on my neighbors door that same day, yet Tammy who did call for help, got nothing. That's my point Bob, and if that doesn't make sense to you, then yes, you care only to be argumentative.

[xoxluvablexox]

They need to do something about the Humane Sociaty in PA? Is that what your talking about because if it is I agree. The fact the the Humane Sociaty didn't react over the 3 day period that they were bing called about that dog is just unexseptable. The Humane Sociaty is there for the protection of mistreated animals and the fact they weren't there for that dog and didn't even bother to call back the lady that had been calling over a three day period shows that they aren't serious about there job and something NEEDS to be done about that. People should right letter, call them, and just keep complaining untill something is done about there lack of action in this case. Not just for the sake of this case but for any other dog that is mistreated in PA and has no one like Tammy to go and save them despite the laws.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I don't know if this is the 10th time I've said this, I haven't been keeping track, but I don't care about Tammy Bob, nor did I say she didn't do all that she could. Get over it already. I'm more concerned about your last statement, and why nothing was done.

A month ago my neighbor's dog was living in it's own feces. Why is it that I can make one phone call and have the authorities banging on my neighbors door that same day, yet Tammy who did call for help, got nothing. That's my point Bob, and if that doesn't make sense to you, then yes, you care only to be argumentative.

Because,,obviously, the town an situation that Tammy was in , was totally different from your situation, and this is why she did what she did . By the way, jsut to put things in perspective, Tammy is a lady that won the ASPCA Pet protector award for the year, and is a finalist for the Animal Planet Person of the Year Award. I guess a few people think she is pretty cool..

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by xoxluvablexox

They need to do something about the Humane Sociaty in PA? Is that what your talking about because if it is I agree. The fact the the Humane Sociaty didn't react over the 3 day period that they were bing called about that dog is just unexseptable. The Humane Sociaty is there for the protection of mistreated animals and the fact they weren't there for that dog and didn't even bother to call back the lady that had been calling over a three day period shows that they aren't serious about there job and something NEEDS to be done about that. People should right letter, call them, and just keep complaining untill something is done about there lack of action in this case. Not just for the sake of this case but for any other dog that is mistreated in PA and has no one like Tammy to go and save them despite the laws.

There are countless communities in the US, that have very little in the way of organized Humane Society groups or Animal Control facilities. Many times there is only one volunteer that has to cover hundreds of square miles, and when that volunteer is on vacation, there is nothing at all. Sad, but true.