[Captbob]

Originally Posted by sheltiemom

I have no idea what to think about this group. I looked at their website and it looks ok. Except for this one dog she got arrested over, it looks like they go through the proper channels to obtain the dogs they have. But that is their own website. As far as the incident she got arrested over, I haven't decided how I feel about that. I don't understand why they would protest at a dog show though. Are they trying to get publicity by showing up at any dog related event, or do they really have a problem with show dogs? Does this group actually release/steal show dogs, or are we talking about similar groups?

Also, someone enlighten me here. If groups like PETA are against responsible breeding and for widespread spay/neutering, do they want dogs as a species to die out?

We euthanize about 90,000 dogs a day in the United States alone. Do you really think that dogs will"die out".....

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

This thread is way off topic. The OP was kind enough to warn us about a protest by a radical AR group.

Thanks, CHRotties.

I don't think anyone will dispute that animals need a champion- someone who can speak for them. However, no one is above the law.

If Tammy really wants to do some good, maybe she can protest some puppy mills or some pet stores. However, they attract far less attention then a dog show, so that's probably why she's in Harrisburg rather then protesting at some Amish puppymill.

I think that is what's truly ignorant.

I think people distorting what she actually does and how hard she works to save dogs is truly ignorant.

[Snowshoe]

Originally Posted by Captbob

I think people distorting what she actually does and how hard she works to save dogs is truly ignorant.

Once again, then why is she protesting a dog show? Those dogs are well cared for, pampered PETS who happen to be an excellent example of their breed.

Why isn't she out protesting a pet store, or an Amish puppy mill?

Answer: she'll get more attention for her group if she protests at an AKC show.

That's what it's all about for her, at least this time.

Now, THAT's distorted, huh?

[sheltiemom]

Originally Posted by Captbob

We euthanize about 90,000 dogs a day in the United States alone. Do you really think that dogs will"die out".....

No, certainly not any time soon, it was more of a question about the long term goals of groups like that.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by sheltiemom

No, certainly not any time soon, it was more of a question about the long term goals of groups like that.

You and I know that that will never happen. There will always be an overpopulation of of dogs and cats. Frankly, I can't understand why people go out of their way to breed mutts and call them designer breeds, when there are thousands and thousands of animals in shelters that would love to find a good home. Why bring more animals into a world that is already way overpopulated by the same species?

[DOBERMAN_07]

Can someone give me cliffs on this so called crazy lady? Whats the story behind her...

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by DOBERMAN_07

Can someone give me cliffs on this so called crazy lady? Whats the story behind her...

http://tammygrimes.blogspot.com/

If you can look at a picture of the dog whose life she saved on this link, and still critize her for what she did, you have to have a heart made out of stone in my opinion.

[Orange County Ca]

It's takes a radical stand to point out problems in a society. PETA and the like are the ones to tell the ignorant ones about how some animals are kept. Why should you be allowed to keep an animal only to have it on a 10' chain for its lifetime?
The problem for these people by using terrorist tactics they lost all credibility and will be forever marginalized.

[DOBERMAN_07]

Originally Posted by Captbob

http://tammygrimes.blogspot.com/

If you can look at a picture of the dog whose life she saved on this link, and still critize her for what she did, you have to have a heart made out of stone in my opinion.

Ok, here is my take on whats going on after reading the link you gave me:

I think what she did was out of good heart and out of care for animals. The owners of Duke were (Insert Profanity here) and she only did what she thought was the best for the dog.

That being said, I think that what she did was wrong not because she rescued the dog, but by the means she went about to do it. She does not represent a public organization which enforces the laws (ie the police). Also she is not an authority which decides which dogs are abused and which dogs are fine. I am aware of the fact that Duke was abused and should have been rescued regardless, but SHE should not have taken the law into her own hands

Its hard for me to accuse someone of doing the right thing, but I cant just disregard laws that are in place for this kind of stuff.

[ChRotties]

Exactly my point, Dobe.

It is also my understanding that the people that owned "Doogie" were never brought up on charges of abuse. She never relinquished the dog to animal control. And the dog has now passed on. (according to her web site.)

Her group also opposes dogs kept in pens. Since I have 5 indoor/outdoor runs at my house, I would be on her hit list too. I also use dog crates as do all dog show people....my guess is that is why they have chosen to protest the shows in Harrisburg..

I strongly oppose chaining as a means of confinement.....just wanted to make that clear. But that does not give me the right on my own accord to go around like Robin Hood implementing vigilante justice.

[sheltiemom]

The thing about animal rights groups is that they are all over the board with their stand on things, as a whole. I am 100% in agreement that dogs should not be chained, live outside (with very few exceptions), I am against puppy mills obviously, but groups who are against show dogs, or working dogs, or pure bred dogs or breeding in general, well, they lose me at that point. With some of these animal rights groups that I have never heard of, it is hard to say whether or not I would support them because I don't know their full agenda. Certainly if their only agenda is to get people to not chain their dogs, I would support that.

[cshellenberger]

Stop any further breeding of companion animals, including purebred dogs and cats. Spaying and neutering should be subsidized by stte and municipal governments. Abolish commerce in animals for the pet trade.

End the use of animals in entertainment and sports.

For these groups this means ALL breeding should be stopped, dogs should not be sold nor adopted to loving homes.

The end of sports and entertainment means stopping equestrian events such as racing, jumping, rodeo, polo, and conformation showing (halter , Western Pleasure, Dressage) ect and dog events such as rally, agilty, dog shows, racing, hunting,and coursing events. It's not just about Circus and Movie animals.

I'm sorry, but these are radical groups, and though they may do some good, they are also doing harm. Things such as Breed Specific Legislation, which PETA BACKS, will only do harm to dogs that are innocent of the crimes the breed is accused of. I own a Bully breed, I'm in love with the Mollossers, both groups that are being targeted by BSL and I will fight against it as well and yes, I'll team up with people I don't fully agree with , such as Cesar Milan to shoot down BSL.

Illegal activity only tarnishes the credibily of the group and causes people to shut them out. I'll worjk with those who are credible such as the ASPCA to help animals.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

For these groups this means ALL breeding should be stopped, dogs should not be sold nor adopted to loving homes.

The end of sports and entertainment means stopping equestrian events such as racing, jumping, rodeo, polo, and conformation showing (halter , Western Pleasure, Dressage) ect and dog events such as rally, agilty, dog shows, racing, hunting,and coursing events. It's not just about Circus and Movie animals.

I'm sorry, but these are radical groups, and though they may do some good, they are also doing harm. Things such as Breed Specific Legislation, which PETA BACKS, will only do harm to dogs that are innocent of the crimes the breed is accused of. I own a Bully breed, I'm in love with the Mollossers, both groups that are being targeted by BSL and I will fight against it as well and yes, I'll team up with people I don't fully agree with , such as Cesar Milan to shoot down BSL.

Illegal activity only tarnishes the credibily of the group and causes people to shut them out. I'll worjk with those who are credible such as the ASPCA to help animals.

You are citing something that was written 20 years ago.

[cshellenberger]

Something they still believe.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by DOBERMAN_07

Ok, here is my take on whats going on after reading the link you gave me:

I think what she did was out of good heart and out of care for animals. The owners of Duke were (Insert Profanity here) and she only did what she thought was the best for the dog.

That being said, I think that what she did was wrong not because she rescued the dog, but by the means she went about to do it. She does not represent a public organization which enforces the laws (ie the police). Also she is not an authority which decides which dogs are abused and which dogs are fine. I am aware of the fact that Duke was abused and should have been rescued regardless, but SHE should not have taken the law into her own hands

Its hard for me to accuse someone of doing the right thing, but I cant just disregard laws that are in place for this kind of stuff.

So I guess if you see something like a parent beating a kid over the head with a baseball bat, you won't do anything to help the kid because you don't "represent a public organization i.e. the police" ( which had already been called, by the way, and ignored the dog's plight) . I know there are alot of people that share your views, it is called " Don't get involved"..... I am sorry, but I cannot live my life that way...

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

Something they still believe.

Prove that!!!

[cshellenberger]

Originally Posted by Captbob

So I guess if you see something like a parent beating a kid over the head with a baseball bat, you won't do anything to help the kid because you don't "represent a public organization i.e. the police" ( which had already been called, by the way, and ignored the dog's plight) . I know there are alot of people that share your views, it is called " Don't get involved"..... I am sorry, but I cannot live my life that way...

I certainly wouldn't kidnap the kid!

[cshellenberger]

I'd have to go the thrift store one of these groups has in town and get some of the vomit they call educational literature.

[DOBERMAN_07]

Originally Posted by Captbob

So I guess if you see something like a parent beating a kid over the head with a baseball bat, you won't do anything to help the kid because you don't "represent a public organization i.e. the police" ( which had already been called, by the way, and ignored the dog's plight) . I know there are alot of people that share your views, it is called " Don't get involved"..... I am sorry, but I cannot live my life that way...

Its one thing to call the cops and say "THE DOG IS BEING SLAUGHTERED IN THE BACK YARD!!!"
and another thing to say "There is a dog chained out side without food and water"

Which one do you thing the cops are going to respond too (even though its not even their job).

All im saying is that you cant have vigilantes running around and deciding what is right and what is wrong (although this was clearly wrong).

[Weebles]

I agree that PETA is too extreme, but it amazines me how some people are so quick to say this activist is "a terrorist" before they even have researched her thoroughly. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make them a terrorist. It also doesn't make it OK for you to threaten them and say you'll go after them with your sniper rifle, but I guess that's another topic...

The dog she saved was being neglected. Therefore, I don't think the dog show people need to get all worried about her stealing their dogs. If you're watching your dog, she won't steal it from your backyard.

It's too bad that these AR people have to be so extreme. I don't wear fur and almost never eat meat, but they really lose my support with their stupid protests. They are always outside stores in my neighborhood boycotting something or other, and they always feel the need to show a skinned and mutilated animal. I wish they would realize they could actually improve life for animals if they used some common sense.

[xoxluvablexox]

Here's a link to what PETA thinks about "Pets".

http://www.peta.org/campaigns/ar-petaonpets.asp

"Animal Rights Uncompromised:
PETA on 'Pets'
We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of "pet keeping"—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as "surplus." This selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them causes immeasurable suffering, which results from manipulating their breeding, selling or giving them away casually, and depriving them of the opportunity to engage in their natural behavior. Their lives are restricted to human homes where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to.

Because domesticated animals retain many of their basic instincts and drives but are not able to survive on their own in the wild, dogs, cats, or birds, whose strongest desire is to be free, must be confined to a house, yard, or cage for their own safety.

This is a "best case" scenario. The truth is that millions of dogs spend their lives outside on heavy chains in all weather extremes, or they are kept locked up in tiny chain-link pens from which they can only watch the world go by. Millions more are confined to filthy wire cages in puppy mills—forced to churn out litter after litter until they wear out, at which time they are killed or dumped at the local animal shelter. Even in "good" homes, cats must relieve themselves in dirty litterboxes and often have their digits removed by "declawing," and dogs often have to drink water that has sat around for days, are hurried along on their walks, and are yelled at to get off the furniture or be quiet.

Most compassionate people never think that someone would throw a litter of kittens out the window of a moving car, and they would certainly be shocked by PETA's inches-thick files on cases of dogs and cats who have been shot with arrows, blown up with firecrackers, doused in gasoline and set on fire, cooked in microwave ovens, used as "bait" in dogfights, tortured in satanic rituals, beaten with baseball bats by bored kids, dragged behind cars to "teach them a lesson" for running away, or bound in duct tape to silence their barking. Abuses such as these happen to many animals every day.

Contrary to myth, PETA does not want to confiscate animals who are well cared for and "set them free." What we want is for the population of dogs and cats to be reduced through spaying and neutering and for people to adopt animals (preferably two so that they can keep each other company when their human companions aren't home) from pounds or shelters—never from pet shops or breeders—thereby reducing suffering in the world."

I'm sure all of you will agree that there cause is a good one. That is what any good a legit AR group is about. I'm sure it is the same as Tammy and the group Dogs Deserve Better. They're not about to go and try to steel your dogs. Onless you are an abusive dog owner and don't take care of your animal there would be nothing for you to worry about from an AR group at a dog show. For any AR group that goes and tries tom release your animals and cause trouble, then they really aren't there to help the animal. They're just doing it for the attention and they have no right to say that they are looking out for Animal Rights. That's the truth of it all. The people you hate, that go to your dog shows and try to "steel" your dogs. They are no more AR's then you are.