[Captbob]

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/dogparks.pdf

I go to a dog park every day an am ultra careful about which dogs are in or entering into the park while I am there . If I get any uneasy fellings, I leash up my dog and quickly leave. This article pretty well describes my concerns, and I have already seen some fights erupt.

[sheltiemom]

There is a private dog park in Alpharetta (Ga) where you pay to go, $20 for two dogs, and before you go the first time you have to show your shot records and your dog has to be temperment tested. I have never been, just read about it this morning. Thoughts? Less risky? Too expensive?

[CaseLogic]

Originally Posted by sheltiemom

There is a private dog park in Alpharetta (Ga) where you pay to go, $20 for two dogs, and before you go the first time you have to show your shot records and your dog has to be temperment tested. I have never been, just read about it this morning. Thoughts? Less risky? Too expensive?

It's definitely less risky, but it is unfortunate that you have to pay each time, making you not want to go as much. As far as a "temperment test" - I doubt that's useful at all. I mean, how much can you REALLY determine from a quick test? Dogs behave differently in different situations. I like to go to the one here in downtown Austin which is free, and for the most part, people stick with their dogs and always keep an eye, so I feel dogs are pretty safe there for the most part. JUST MAKE SURE YOUR DOG IS VACCINATED!

By the way, I don't agree with this article. Yes, dog parks can be dangerous, and yes dogs CAN be killed there, but your dog can also be killed by taking him for a walk. You can't just not take your dog to the park because you're scared for his life. If you're a responsible owner, and always keep an eye our not only for your dog, but the others, you can gauge situations and avoid potentially dangerous ones quite easily. If you're always with your dog, you mitigate a huge chance for your dog to get injured. I think dog parks, excluding their "dangerous" factor, are great places for your dogs to socialize and learn to be with other dogs, especially if you don't have any friends w/ dogs for yours to socialize with.

[Missie2007]

I agree completely.

Dog parks are a wonderful option for those of us who live in apartments and/or are city dwellers. Allowing your dog the freedom to run about and socialize and interact with other dogs is invaluable and something which I wholeheartedly endorse.

My personal experience with dog parks is a wonderful one.....lots of nice, knowledgeable, caring, compassionate dog owners with pets that are extrem ely well loved and taken care of.

I agree completely.

Dog parks are a wonderful option for those of us who live in apartments and/or are city dwellers. Allowing your dog the freedom to run about and socialize and interact with other dogs is invaluable and something which I wholeheartedly endorse.

My personal experience with dog parks is a wonderful one.....lots of nice, knowledgeable, caring, compassionate dog owners with pets that are extrem ely well taken care of.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by Missie2007

I agree completely.

Dog parks are a wonderful option for those of us who live in apartments and/or are city dwellers. Allowing your dog the freedom to run about and socialize and interact with other dogs is invaluable and something which I wholeheartedly endorse.

My personal experience with dog parks is a wonderful one.....lots of nice, knowledgeable, caring, compassionate dog owners with pets that are extrem ely well loved and taken care of.

I agree completely.

Dog parks are a wonderful option for those of us who live in apartments and/or are city dwellers. Allowing your dog the freedom to run about and socialize and interact with other dogs is invaluable and something which I wholeheartedly endorse.

My personal experience with dog parks is a wonderful one.....lots of nice, knowledgeable, caring, compassionate dog owners with pets that are extrem ely well taken care of.

My dog and I pretty much live at a dog park, and I see many owners that do pay attention to their dogs. I also see many owners that bring aggressive dogs to the park, hoping to cure their aggresiveness by seeing if they will attack your dog or not. I see other owners that upon approaching the fence, see their dogs snarling and barking at the dogs in the park, looking like they are just itching for a fight as soon as they get in the gate. If you are not vigilant, and looking at each new dog that is entering the park, ready to leash up your dog and take it out of the park at a moments notice, I think sooner or later you are going to run into trouble. There are way to many unsocialized, untrained dogs that are brought to the park by owners that don't have a clue as to how to control their dogs, or break up a dog fight. You just have to be on guard when you are there.

[Ginny01OT]

Originally Posted by Captbob

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/dogparks.pdf

I go to a dog park every day an am ultra careful about which dogs are in or entering into the park while I am there . If I get any uneasy fellings, I leash up my dog and quickly leave. This article pretty well describes my concerns, and I have already seen some fights erupt.

Unfortunately I could not read the article due to computer problems but I think I get what you are seeing based on your statements. I used to bring my dog to the dog park every day; however, I witnessed some things go down there that were unpleasant, I had to leave at times for the same reasons you say and my dog was "picked" on by packs that upset me although everyone said "oh stay,this is part of it, it will be fine (wrestling him to the ground,mounting him, etc.). I then started serious obedience training in a class setting with Riley. In the beginning it was very difficult because the only interactions he had with other dogs was in a dog park, running around, doing whatever he wanted. Now we are in a setting he needs to be around other dogs, listening to me while leashed. I found that now that I have negated going to the dog park our obedience classes are much better. I have had several trainers tell me to stay away dog parks for various reasions. Now I know my dog is a well socialized, happu dog I decided to take their advice befoe anything negative happens.

[Curbside Prophet]

Personally, I find it necessary to enter dog parks with caution. It's a great place for socialized dogs to romp around, but it's not a place to socialize an unsocialized dog. If I see a dog nudging, mounting, or resource guarding, I'm out of there. Elsa's a good dog around nervous dogs or excited dogs, or happy dogs, but I don't want to take the chance around "posession is 9/10ths of the law" dogs.

[RonE]

I thought Esther was the perfect dogpark dog. She has no interest in picking on anyone and nobody picks on her. She keeps track of me so I don't get lost. When she retrieves someone else's tennis ball, she usually returns it to THEM - not me. If I could get her to clean up after herself, I'd be all set.

But the other day we took Esther and Zeke (the miniature Schnauzer) to the dogpark and I was astounded. Zeke was flying around the park, meeting everyone and making friends. You'd think he was running for office.

He spent a lot of time playing with a boxer four times his size. When the boxer had to leave, he found another big dog to run with. I have never seen such a social butterfly.

I have never had a bad experience with my own dogs at the three dog parks I go to. I've seen a few ugly incidents, but considering the hundreds of hours I've spent there, those incidents were very rare.

[Achilles]

About three months ago we brought Achilles to our local dog park where we go all the time (at least twice a week) and have never had a problem. Owners are usually very observant of their dogs and dogs are usually friendly.

I believe it was a wednesday afternoon and so there weren't many dogs at the park, there were three total, including Achilles. A german shepard was chasing him around and they were playing and having a good old time. One of the dogs (a golden) was leaving while another was coming in. Achilles was having a drink of water and decided to head over to the new comer just as the shepard did and most dogs do...the whole "greeting" thing. Without warning the new dog latched on to Achilles' neck and threw him down on his side, Achilles was screaming and squealing, the sound was so horrifying that it took weeks to get it out of my mind. We (myself, my b/f and the german shepard's owner) ran over in an effort to get this dog off of Achilles. This dog was a black pit mix, we have never had any issues with pits as Achilles best friend is one. We finally got this dog off...about 4 minutes later and my b/f got minor bites on his hand from the process. The pit bull's owner did not help at all...she just threw her arms up and screamed, "oh my god!"

The dog tried coming back and I got on top pinning his head on the ground. The owner came over and put his collar on, she said she was heading to the car to put him in there and coming right back to help check on Achilles. She kept on repeating how sorry she was and how her dog has never done this before. We were stupid enough to believe her.

She hopped in her car and before we knew it, she was gone. With everything going on, we didn't even think of getting her llicense plate number. This was EXTREMELY unfortunate as we shortly found that Achilles had FOUR GIGANTIC HOLES in his neck! We rushed him to the vet and he stayed for two days...had to come back multiple times for draining...luckily no infections. HOWEVER, this wonderful little trip to the park cost us over $2000. QUITE UNFORTUNATE. I wish we had known better.

We waited a while before bringing him back to the park, that was a huge scare for all of us. But in all reaiity, he needs the excersize and he loves it...we didn't want to punish him for the fight. We still bring him to the park but are a lot more weary of the dogs that come in...any sign of aggression and we leave...not taking the chance again. Achilles is a lot more "iffy" with other dogs too...he actually doesn't really care for them, he just wants to stay by us and retrieve his frisbee.

The scariest part of all is that there was no warning with that dog...it became something huge right off the bat, no showing teeth, no growling, nothing. Just latching on to the throat immediately. I was lucky to have two other guys there to help remove that dog off of Achilles...it seriously took all three of us and the german shepard growling in the pit's face. :/

Sorry...that was really long.

Originally Posted by Missie2007

I agree completely.

Dog parks are a wonderful option for those of us who live in apartments and/or are city dwellers. Allowing your dog the freedom to run about and socialize and interact with other dogs is invaluable and something which I wholeheartedly endorse.

My personal experience with dog parks is a wonderful one.....lots of nice, knowledgeable, caring, compassionate dog owners with pets that are extrem ely well loved and taken care of.

I agree completely.

Dog parks are a wonderful option for those of us who live in apartments and/or are city dwellers. Allowing your dog the freedom to run about and socialize and interact with other dogs is invaluable and something which I wholeheartedly endorse.

My personal experience with dog parks is a wonderful one.....lots of nice, knowledgeable, caring, compassionate dog owners with pets that are extrem ely well taken care of.

You're right! Even though we had that one incident, we still use the dog park because we feel it to be necessary for our pup!

[Captbob]

Last night I read all 70 pages of the article I posted at the top of this thread, and I have to say that my attitude about dog parks has definelty changed. I have been previously been nervous at times, and had already learned to avoid dogs that look or act aggresive, but in reading this article I have decided that alot of this is gambling with the life and well being of my dog.

As pointed out by Achilles in the above post as well as the author ( trainer) of this article, the owner of the attacking dog is usually of no help at all during one of these attacks. He also points out that very few people know how to break up a dog fight, and they usually get bitten trying. Furthermore, I have seen people break up fights, and then they release their dog, and of course the attacking dog goes right back on attack. These are all things that I have seen in just the few short months that I have been going to the park.

My dog has a few dogs that she plays with every day, and from now on I am going to confine her playing inside the dog park to those dogs. The weekends usually get an influx of unknown dogs and owners, and I am planning on avoiding the park during those times.

[Alpha]

I understand for those that have no where to walk their dogs going to dog parks.

I also think that being safe is super important when going there. Sometimes picking out certain breeds, like pitbulls is a good idea, even though I hate to say it. Leashing up like Captbob said if your at all nervous is probably the best idea.

It's those times that your not totally sure that worries me. I guess it's wrong of me to judge when I haven't ever attended one, but with Hades breed firstly and Roxy's dislike to people, I think it would be downright rude of me to attend a dog park anyways.

I think it's a smart idea to stick to the dogs that YOU know your dog gets along with. The more little boys you get together the more trouble they get into my dad always said LOL. It's no different than when Roxy and Hades were properly introduced to my parents dog, and now they play with him.

If you know the people and the dogs, and you all get along, there's nothing wrong with that.

I guess my perception of dog parks is a bit off to those of you that go there! LOL

I thought that on the most part it was strange dogs and people.

[CrzyBritNAmerica]

I think you just need to use your best judgement when going to a dog park.

I go to one dog park several times a week, as much as possible, as I love it as much as Bridgette does. We have never had an issue with our park, but where I live we have a lot of dog lovers so they seem to take more care in what kinds of dogs come to the park. Our rules are very clear as well.

I have seen aggressive dogs come in and I have never left because of them. I would if there weren't people I know there of course. The few times I have seen people bring their aggressive dogs, several of us have immediately banded together and asked them to leave. The rules clearly state the consequences of bringing aggressive dogs, so people usually just leash their dog and leave.

I haven't seen many problems at the park though...and the only real fight I have witnessed was between two dogs that actually lived and came together.

I think it really depends on where you live too. We live in a very dog-friendly/hippie town so the majority of the people who come to the dog park we go to are very dog savvy. If you live in an area where there are more people who have pets, but aren't really animal lovers then I think that you'd be more inclined to have problems...

[Snowshoe]

it seems like in our area, people are very dog ignorant.

There are two JRTs that live close to me that are very dog aggressive. The owner and I are friends, and she keeps saying, "Wow, I wished our dogs got along, maybe we could walk together then!"

I want to say, "Yeah, maybe if your dogs weren't psycho THEN we could walk our dogs together." But, I never say that.

Anyway, the same as true at our dog parks. The people where we go would rather socialize then watch their pets.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Captbob

I see other owners that upon approaching the fence, see their dogs snarling and barking at the dogs in the park, looking like they are just itching for a fight as soon as they get in the gate.

My sister was at the SLC dog park last summer when one of these showed up. The dog *and* the owner were itching for a fight. As soon as he showed up, everyone (except my sister) leashed their dogs and left. The guy with the crazy dog took it off its leash and sure enough, it made a beeline for my sister's dog. Which is an alpha female malamute/german shepherd mix. There wasn't even a fight - one bite and it was over. Crazy Dog Man was pissed.

My sister's dog (Shaktee) is the Best Dog Ever. I love her to death, she's extremely polite and well behaved, and has never challenged the authority of any human being. But she does not take crap from other dogs. My sister rehabilitates rescue dogs who have been abused, neglected, or otherwise have "issues", and Shaktee helps to train them. If they ever become unclear on who's the boss, Shaktee will lay the smack down and maintain order.

[Pitbull]

I don't like offleash dog parks - at all! But I think I like this article even less! (no offense to anyone)

The article mentioned that once a dog is attacked, he/she will become animal aggressive as well..I don't agree with this...its each individual dog...that comment is too general to apply to every single dog that has been attacked by another.

I also think his correcting severly method is a little drastic...people HAVE dog aggressive dogs..and they deal with it very well...and they don't "severly correct" their dogs...its a little prehistoric to me. Seems like he wants to seel his DVDs :P

Also, the whole part about the "pit mix" being an "obviously aggressive dog" for chasing and jumping at the boxer pup was ridiculous...this man doesn't know how to evaluate dog aggression...maybe dominant, yes, but not dog aggressive..if this "pit mix" wanted to be dog aggressive, that pup would probably have been bitten or worse by then...seems like another one of "those stories" *rolls eyes*

Or the "every dominant dog needs this collar for training" bit..uhm..NO..if he were a decent trainer, he would instead mention that you need to find a collar that fits your dog and your needs for that dog...you can train a dominant dog with a harness, it just depends on who's doing what on the other end of the leash....the man is obviously set in his ways :P

He also thinks electric collars are great for training...:P

"take the toys that we sell....."
lol mark-et-ing

lol need I say more?

[CrzyBritNAmerica]

Originally Posted by Pitbull

The article mentioned that once a dog is attacked, he/she will become animal aggressive as well..I don't agree with this...its each individual dog...that comment is too general to apply to every single dog that has been attacked by another.

Okay so I didn't read the article much because I knew from other people's comments that it may anger me...but what? It says that attacked dog's become aggressive?? That's total bologna!

Bridgette (a pitbull mix btw) was attacked outside of our condo by a husky mix dog. She is literally the opposite of dominant...she's very submissive to dominant and aggressive dogs. She just rolled onto her back, peed all over the place and let this dogt this dog latch onto her leg and shake it with all her might.

Yeah, after this incident it took me a while to help Bridgette not be terrified of every leashed dog we came accross...but now she's 100% better and not remotely afraid of other dogs...let alone aggressive. She acts the same way as she did before she was attacked.

The only thing I could think that would possibly cause an attacked dog to become aggressive is if said dog was scared of dogs afterwards and the owner "babied" the dog while it was fearfull...that could probably lead to fearfull aggression...but I have no idea...

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by Pitbull

I don't like offleash dog parks - at all! But I think I like this article even less! (no offense to anyone)

The article mentioned that once a dog is attacked, he/she will become animal aggressive as well..I don't agree with this...its each individual dog...that comment is too general to apply to every single dog that has been attacked by another.

I also think his correcting severly method is a little drastic...people HAVE dog aggressive dogs..and they deal with it very well...and they don't "severly correct" their dogs...its a little prehistoric to me. Seems like he wants to seel his DVDs :P

Also, the whole part about the "pit mix" being an "obviously aggressive dog" for chasing and jumping at the boxer pup was ridiculous...this man doesn't know how to evaluate dog aggression...maybe dominant, yes, but not dog aggressive..if this "pit mix" wanted to be dog aggressive, that pup would probably have been bitten or worse by then...seems like another one of "those stories" *rolls eyes*

Or the "every dominant dog needs this collar for training" bit..uhm..NO..if he were a decent trainer, he would instead mention that you need to find a collar that fits your dog and your needs for that dog...you can train a dominant dog with a harness, it just depends on who's doing what on the other end of the leash....the man is obviously set in his ways :P

He also thinks electric collars are great for training...:P

"take the toys that we sell....."
lol mark-et-ing

lol need I say more?

He happens to be one of the most respected trainers in the business and gives Seminars that other trainers and training organizations say are excellent.....In addition he has the largest forum on Dog Training on the internet with over 11,000 members, many of the professional trainers.

http://leerburg.com/

http://leerburg.com/history.htm

It amazes me when someone takes a person that is very well known and respected in the dog training field and they act like they know more.

[CrzyBritNAmerica]

Originally Posted by Captbob

It amazes me when someone takes a person that is very well known and respected in the dog training field and they act like they know more.

I don't doubt that this guy is respected...but I still cannot imagine (other than the way I described in my post) how a dog who was attacked will become aggressive.

I guess I should read the article and see if it actually states that...

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Pitbull

The article mentioned that once a dog is attacked, he/she will become animal aggressive as well..I don't agree with this...its each individual dog...that comment is too general to apply to every single dog that has been attacked by another.

I agree with you, Pitbull.

Achilles was attacked and it obviously shook him up for a bit but he's not aggressive at all when he's around other dogs, he's never been. He really hasn't changed much at all. The only thing that has changed is that he is a little less eager to run up and sniff the new dog's butt. Overall, he's fine...there have been other instances where a dog has come by and showed a little aggression...a few raised hairs...a bark back and forth and then it's over. No fighting.

And I wasn't blaming the attack on the dog being a pitbull mix but rather the lack of respect towards the other dogs by the owner...just wanted to make that clear.

I don't care what breed my dog is, if (s)he shows signs of aggression towards other dogs (s)he would NOT be taken to the dog park, period. Like I stated earlier, his best bud is a full blood pit and there has never been even the slightest problem between them...I don't know if that has to do with them knowing eachother since Achilles was a baby? They even go swimming together! lol. Well, Achilles swims and Gordo (his buddy) freaks out and tries to help Achilles out of the water. lol.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by Achilles

I agree with you, Pitbull.

Achilles was attacked and it obviously shook him up for a bit but he's not aggressive at all when he's around other dogs, he's never been. He really hasn't changed much at all. The only thing that has changed is that he is a little less eager to run up and sniff the new dog's butt. Overall, he's fine...there have been other instances where a dog has come by and showed a little aggression...a few raised hairs...a bark back and forth and then it's over. No fighting.

And I wasn't blaming the attack on the dog being a pitbull mix but rather the lack of respect towards the other dogs by the owner...just wanted to make that clear.

I don't care what breed my dog is, if (s)he shows signs of aggression towards other dogs (s)he would NOT be taken to the dog park, period. Like I stated earlier, his best bud is a full blood pit and there has never been even the slightest problem between them...I don't know if that has to do with them knowing eachother since Achilles was a baby? They even go swimming together! lol. Well, Achilles swims and Gordo (his buddy) freaks out and tries to help Achilles out of the water. lol.

It seems to be popular for many people to share their own personal experience with their particular dog , and assume that the outcome will be the same for everyone in the same situation. The person that wrote this article has dealt with thousands and thousands of dogs, and many of his clients are owners of aggressive dogs. It's obvious to me , that someone with that level of experience would be more likely to see the probable effect on the dogs that have been attacked, versus one dog owners experience with his or her dog.

Its like the old argument about the person that has a relative that smoked 3 packs a day and lived till they we 86 years old, telling everyone that the medical profession doesn't know what they are talking about when they say you shouldn't smoke, cause it is bad for your health.

By the way, here is my experience at the dog park today. I went to the park just before noon, and a friend of mine who has a Beagle told me that there were 2 PitBulls locked in the big dog area. He and another owner had corraled the 2 that had been running loose all over the park for the better part of the morning. Neither dog had any ID, no Rabies tag, and no way of contacting the owner. While we were waiting for animal control to come and get the dogs, another owner comes down with his 2 PitBulls who weren't very friendly, and decides to walk into the area where we had the dogs secured, despite us warning him to leave the dogs alone until aninmal control arrived. First thing that happens is his unneutered Male starts going after one of the strays. He finally gets his dogs into another section of the park after much yelling and chasing , where he had just come from. It was obvious that he had no control over either one of his dogs. Now he starts telling us that he doesn't believe in Training dogs with treats, he just uses a stick to train them. He also believes in "slow training" , and that is why his dogs are about 1 year old, aggresive, and are just learning the "come" command..... I made a mental note to myself that I would immediately head for the nearest exit if I saw this guy and his dogs approaching the gate in the future.