Did your breeder do health testing?

Michiyo-Fir · 11-20-2009, 12:30 AM

Nia's breeder didn't actually do any kind of health testing. She only makes sure none of the dogs that she has ever has any parents/grandparents, etc in their pedigree with luxating patellar and PRA. She doesn't have actual proof other than a local vet's certificate that they don't have any of those 2 problems. Puppies come with a health guarantee for the first year.

Funny thing is I checked probably 10 breeders around here, and none of them did actual health testing (Papillons) These are also breeders recommended to me by the Papillon Club of Canada.

So...my question is, did your breeder do health testing? I think it's more common in some breeds and less common in others.

Nargle · 11-20-2009, 12:40 AM

Lol, I have NO idea if Basil's breeder did any health testing. His foster mom told me he came from an area with a rampant BYB/Puppy mill problem, so probably not

Michiyo-Fir · 11-20-2009, 12:42 AM

I'm just wondering. Do you know why Basil was given up for adoption?

Nargle · 11-20-2009, 12:45 AM

I think his original owners were an elderly couple. They may have gotten too old to care for him. After that he had a few owners, though I don't have much info about them. I think his last owner right before me was a family who adopted him as a gift for their son, but Basil got really attached to the daughter, and was probably displaying symptons of SA whenever the daughter wasn't around, so they probably got annoyed and gave him back up. His SA was pretty bad what I first adopted him.

Pai · 11-20-2009, 01:12 AM

Ice's breeder did. I wouldn'tve contacted her otherwise. Cresteds have an international public database for health test results. Because it's purely voluntary if a breeder posts results or not, the fact that Ice's breeder was willing to post Carrier/Suspect results showed me that she was honest about her dogs' health. The same goes for the kennel I am planning to get a pup this spring from. I wouldn't use that website to make final judgments on anybody, of course, but it was a helpful starting point for me.

Xeph · 11-20-2009, 01:32 AM

Crappy as his breeder was, Strauss's did do health testing

MoosMom · 11-20-2009, 04:26 AM

Yes yes. My breeder was able to show me paper work for yoshis dad, mom, grandmother, grand dad and great grand dad.

Kay Weber · 11-20-2009, 07:32 AM

Avie, our GSD, had to have hip certification, STD test, kennel cough shot, and something else I think. They were serious about checking her out before she got anywhere close to their male. I understand completely though.

Then she didn't get pregnant - we'll try again in about one month.

sparkle · 11-20-2009, 09:40 AM

When I acquire a dog through a breeder they must show proof that both parents and preferably grand parents had CERF tests for CEA preferably DNA tests, OFA scores, and any health test pertainent to the breed.. Otherwise I absolutely do not not support breeders and acquire a rescue dog.

RaeganW · 11-20-2009, 09:46 AM

I don't think Gatsby's did, but his contract does guarantee against genetic diseases with the option of returning the dog and getting a new puppy. However, they only guarantee it for the first two years, and only for the original owner (there was no return to breeder mandate). So I lost out when I bought him, but it would be up today anyway.

sparkle · 11-20-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaeganW

I don't think Gatsby's did, but his contract does guarantee against genetic diseases with the option of returning the dog and getting a new puppy. However, they only guarantee it for the first two years, and only for the original owner (there was no return to breeder mandate). So I lost out when I bought him, but it would be up today anyway.

I did not know that you could guarantee something unless maybe when considering DNA tests?????

Are you talking about a warranty maybe?

How sad that a breeder would substitute/dismiss actual health screenings and then as a incentive provide a *GUARANTEE* to entice buyers.

This would definite fit the definition of being a ir-responsible breeder.

RaeganW · 11-20-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkle

I did not know that you could guarantee something unless maybe when considering DNA tests?????

Are you talking about a waranty maybe?

Maybe I misspoke. I don't have the contract in front of me, but I think it said something like "We promise the dog we sold you doesn't have any genetic defects, but if any develop in the first two years of the dog's life we'll take it back and you can have a new puppy." So, I dunno, maybe that's more of a warranty? I'm pretty sure they used the word guarantee though. It really kind of bothers me that it's only for two years. I mean, if it's a genetic disease it's been there the whole time, the dog didn't just develop it on his own. That's pretty much the definition of "genetic."

CoverTune · 11-20-2009, 10:02 AM

To be honest, before I got Corona, I didn't check if the breeders did health testing (not actually sure I even knew about health testing actually). However, I did choose the breeders based on their reputation, which was outstanding.

Looking back now though, I see that yes, they did do health testing.

sparkle · 11-20-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoverTune

However, I did choose the breeders based on their reputation, which was outstanding.

.

A breeders reputation is less than responsible in my opinion (and many others) if they do not take into consideration all of the health issues and screenings before choosing to breed.

I know of *many* breeders who are considered having good/outstanding reputations that do not aspire to the issues of health screens. Especially in Europe.

prntmkr · 11-20-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir

...

So...my question is, did your breeder do health testing?

Yes. Absolutely .. to the "nth" degree!!!

Years ago I heard this from one of the very few (actually) “good” breeders I’ve ever met (and I paraphrase here):

'The only reason to breed a particular litter, is with the both the intention and realistic hopeful expectation that one would be able to improve the breed.'

It would seem to me that extensive health testing of both sire and dam should be standard – also, as best as possible, checking out grandparents, great-grandparents as well as aunts, uncles, great-aunts, great-uncles etc. would not seem unreasonable!?!

Perhaps if more breeders actually did this testing, there would be far fewer health issues in our beloved pets.

Michiyo-Fir · 11-20-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kay Weber

Avie, our GSD, had to have hip certification, STD test, kennel cough shot, and something else I think. They were serious about checking her out before she got anywhere close to their male. I understand completely though.

Then she didn't get pregnant - we'll try again in about one month.

Nia had those kinds of certifications like no luxating patellar, no PRA from the local vet. I saw papers for those as well as papers for the same things for the parents but no genetic testing or OFA certificates.

Does that count as health testing???

Also I think some breeds there are more breeders doing health tests like I know lots of breeders of GSD, Cavaliers, etc. that do health testing but can't seem to find any Papillon breeders that do it.

Even a lot of the breeders that have top dogs all over the world don't seem to do it. Not sure why that is..

I do know a lot of breeders that offer lifetime guarantee free of genetic faults without doing any testing though. The dog can be returned or all costs spent on treating genetic problems will be paid by the breeder.

Keechak · 11-20-2009, 10:44 AM

Kechara's and Jack's did not they were from what I would consider higher end BYB. Jack's breeder back in 1995 was trying to breed a litter for the AKC show ring as Aussies were still very new to the AKC and the stud book was still open in the USASA.

Kechara's grandparents on her fathers side were both health tested and CH but her father was supposed to be sold as a "Pet" and the person who bought him desided to breed him with their NSDR bitch when he was only 1 year old.

Hawkeye's Dam has her Hips and Eyes done
his Sire has his Hips Eyes Elbows and MDR1 done
All the dogs on every side of his family has at least Hips and Eyes done till about the mid 80's

BoxMeIn21 · 11-20-2009, 10:53 AM

My first boxer was from a BYB, but my last two boxers came from breeders who did all of the appropriate health testing for the breed.

Michiyo-Fir · 11-20-2009, 11:00 AM

Another question:
Does the dog have to be certified through CERF or OFA or another organization like that to count as health tested or is a vet's written word enough?

Laurelin · 11-20-2009, 11:35 AM

It's hard in paps to find people that do a lot of health testing. A lot don't do OFA but will have vets or specialists x-ray the knees. CERF is actually pretty common though from what I've seen. There are some good breeders that do OFA but in this breed I'd not discount all the people that don't do OFA as long as they do x-rays. At least at this point many of the best breeders don't do it. There's a major push to do more health testing and it's being done more and more by the younger generation. We can't afford to cut out the genetic diversity of the untested lines- we'd be cutting out 80% of the breed. You won't find lines of purely health tested dogs yet. In many large breeds it's done for generations, but no so here. It's in the baby steps and hopefully we'll soon see it mandated for the national breed club's breeders. There has been several articles on the push to OFA in the papillon club's magazine and some really welll known breeders pushing for it too. It would be nice to just have these knee results on display though I don't think it is anymore accurate than just getting your own x-rays done. But we really need a growing database to chart these kinds of things in lineage. Right now everybody just kind of does their own thing.

The best way to find breeders that do OFA is to go through the website offa.org

It is pretty much like this in most toy breeds.