Help, Bitten by my Pyrenees

garrett · 03-07-2007, 03:14 AM

The saddest moment happened today when my best friend bit me. I have an eight year old pyr. He has been so good to us over the years. Tonight when I went to take his rawhide (This is a routine that we have practiced since he was a puppy) he showed all his teeth and growled. I smacked his nose and said "NO" He then got up and attacked me. I wrestled him to the ground, but he bit through my hand. I am really torn apart by this. We have a new 11 month old daughter that he isn't bonding to and now this. I can't feel safe about him, and am thankful that he bit me and not my wife or daughter. He is so big and so powerful. I don't know what to do???? We love this dog so much. Please help us.
BC, Canada

skelaki · 03-07-2007, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrett

The saddest moment happened today when my best friend bit me. I have an eight year old pyr. He has been so good to us over the years. Tonight when I went to take his rawhide (This is a routine that we have practiced since he was a puppy) he showed all his teeth and growled. I smacked his nose and said "NO" He then got up and attacked me. I wrestled him to the ground, but he bit through my hand. I am really torn apart by this. We have a new 11 month old daughter that he isn't bonding to and now this. I can't feel safe about him, and am thankful that he bit me and not my wife or daughter. He is so big and so powerful. I don't know what to do???? We love this dog so much. Please help us.
BC, Canada

Well you made two big mistakes. For one thing, you should never hit a dog. It's a form of correction they don't understand and can be counter-productive. And, doing the Alpha roll is no longer recommende because it can also be a dangerous move. The Alpha dog never physically rolls a subordinate over into the submissive position. The lower ranking dog offers the position to appease the Alpha.

That said, your Pyr is 8 years old and could have some physical problems associated with aging. You owe it to him to get him into the vet ASAP for a complete Senior exam that includes blood work (including a full panel thyroid test and blood sugar test). And make sure his hearing and vision are also checked.

flirtatioustara · 03-07-2007, 04:18 AM

do you think he may be jealous of the new baby? thinks hes getting less attention from you?

Im sorry im not much help, i have no idea. Im confident someone will be along soon and wil help you asap.

I hope you sort it out soon, good luck!

edit: whoop they u go! too quick to answer i was! =D good luck!

Kerry · 03-07-2007, 07:32 AM

My advice will not be popular here. With a baby in your home, I would find another home for the dog. He sounds too unpredictable and you know your daughter could be seriously injured if he does that again.

Captbob · 03-07-2007, 08:32 AM

I am reading a book written by an excellent trainer titled Good Owners, Great Dogs. He says that a dog should never be left with a small child without supervision.

Lorina · 03-07-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skelaki

That said, your Pyr is 8 years old and could have some physical problems associated with aging. You owe it to him to get him into the vet ASAP for a complete Senior exam that includes blood work (including a full panel thyroid test and blood sugar test). And make sure his hearing and vision are also checked.

I agree with Skelaki. Sometimes behavioral problems can stem from medical problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

My advice will not be popular here. With a baby in your home, I would find another home for the dog. He sounds too unpredictable and you know your daughter could be seriously injured if he does that again.

Unfortunately, rehoming the dog would be irresponsible. If it were to happen again, the previous owner could be liable. Most rescues or shelters will not adopt out a dog with a bite history. If the dog can't be trusted, there is no medical reason for his aggression, euthanasia may be the best option.

It sounds as though this kind of aggression could be easily avoided if the dog lived in an adult only home (don't take treats from the dog or don't give treats that he guards, don't hit him, etc.), but it'll be years before the child would understand how to act around a dog.

opossum · 03-07-2007, 10:30 AM

Definitely have him checked out by your vet. There could be a physical or mental problem.

It is possible that over time he has elevated himself in your pack. That wouldn't be hard to fix but it would be best to work with a local behaviorist on that. I would not be overly worried just yet, but I would keep a closer eye on his behavior.

peace36 · 03-07-2007, 10:41 AM

Ditto what Lorina said.

ksubdog · 03-07-2007, 10:54 AM

I think this is potentially serious issue. When a new baby comes into the home there's a lot of changes, adjustments. Dogs can either go with the flow or show some objection. Our lab, was territorial when we first had our son. We had Louie for two years before our son. He displayed some pretty crude behavior, never aggression though. I agree with those that suggested ruling out medical issues first, but I would also change your routine with your dog. Things are different with the new baby and your dog needs a new routine, too. Be very careful not to leave the baby with your dog even for a second. I really feel your worry and hope your dog can adjust.

sobreeze · 03-07-2007, 11:00 AM

I have had Pyrs for about three years now both mine are females . I have talked to a lot of Pyr owners the female can be food and dog agressive but the males as they get older can be very food and dog agressive and belive they are the boss . This is not the first time I have heard of a male atacking owner he now thinks he is your boss he rules all around him you need to put a stop to this now before it get real bad. DO NOT HIT HIM but you do need to controll him and as for you child keep them apart he maybe does not see your child as part of the herd yet these are dogs breed to protect live stock they bond with there herds not to be cute house dogs they are great dogs if they are used for what they were breed for protecting livestock over hundreds of acres . I know a lot of rescues try to place these dogs in city homes with no job to do but I realy wish they would place with familys that have a job for them to do that they were bred for . You may need to get the help of a good dog trainer or someone that works with problem dogs. And make sure they know this breed .

FranMan · 03-07-2007, 11:21 AM

http://leerburg.com/pdf/introducingdogsandbabies.pdf

Kerry · 03-07-2007, 12:33 PM

Lorina, I didn't realize the previous owner could be liable. What if the new owners were told about the biting? Of course, it would have to be a home without children.
Captbob, that is a good policy and I hope the OP keeps the baby and dog apart. But anyone with children knows how quickly things can happen, even when you are watching carefully.

peace36 · 03-07-2007, 02:07 PM

If you get a trainer and the training works great. The only way you are going to find out if it does not work is when your dog bites and this time it could be your baby.

You can not keep your eyes on your child 100% of the time. It is not that you will not watch but it just takes a second. I really do not want to go into details on this forum with my horrible ordeal I once had but I said I would always watch my golden chow mix and she was happy as can be tail wagging enjoying the summer outside and walked up to a little girl neighbor in my back yard and almost bit her face off. THank God the girl jumped back in time. So even if you are watching the child with your dog so what .....you can personally see the biting.

I was told even if I find an someone who would take her and had them sign papers that I told them about her biting It problably would not hold up in court.

I know you love your dog but when they bite I do not consider that a pet it is a wild animal.

Chloef_2799 · 03-07-2007, 03:22 PM

Pyrnese can be dog aggressive and being that they are shepherd dogs they are very particular about who is in their pack. The baby may not be welcome in his pack yet and if he is eight years old and never had to deal with babies before he may not really know how to act around it yet. it is also like Sobreeze says, they can become possessive as they age.
But you never know it could be a medical problem, maybe he has arthritis or some other underlying problem? Eight is pretty old for a pyr, see what the vet has to say. For the mean time, don't leave him alone with the baby or anyone who you don't trust him around.
We had this problem with Maggie out GSD for the last three months of her life. We thought something had hapened to make her so miserable, she would growl at everyone and even once almost attacked Bess our other dog. We brought her to the vet and found out she had a tumour in her back leg that was putting pressure on some rather large nerves.
That is a worst case scenario so don't think the worst but have him checked just to be safe.

Tankstar · 03-07-2007, 03:26 PM

I would rule out any type of medical problem first.

I know routines change after children. But how drasticly has the routine for your dog changed? Do you have a job for this breed of dog (Hearing ect), Or is he just a house pet? Try a behavorist first. I wouldnt give the dog away, you will be liable, plus I just wouldnt give him away lol.

There could be many underlying problems you dont see for why he is doing it. Think about it.

I for one think hitting the dog caused more problems then fixes. Also taking away a rahide no matter how well trained a dog is is dangerouse, no matter how many times you have done this. Why were you taking it away? Do you normaly take it away with out giving it back?

Snowshoe · 03-07-2007, 03:40 PM

I think that the safety of the child needs to come first, then the wellbeing of the dog.

Your dog is very old for such a large breed dog. Make sure he doesn't have anything that's causing him pain. Take him in for a check up, and let the vet know why you're there.

Rehoming him would probably not be a good idea- some breeds take to new people and a new pack very well.

Great pyrs are unfortunately not one of those breeds. If you do choose to rehome him, do it with a breed rescue rather then dumping him at the pound.

At least with a breed rescue, they know and understand the type of dog, and will likely be able to find him a good home. Make sure that they understand what he's done to be rehomed. That way, if the dog bites it cannot come back on you.

You may also want to consult a behaviorist. However, in the mean time make sure you keep your dog and your child separated. I know that sounds like common sense, but as a few posters mentioned, both kids and dogs are very quick and bad things can happen in a blink.

Another option is euthenasia. In the long run, it may be kinder to put him to sleep then rehome him. However, I think that if you decide to go this route that you at least need to attempt to retrain him, or consult a behaviorist.

After all, he's been your best friend for such a long time. I definately think you would owe him that before putting him to sleep.

Cheetah · 03-07-2007, 03:58 PM

It sounds like you hitting him was the last straw, and it provoked a bite after he already warned you with a growl. Do you normally just yank his rawhide away? Perhaps you should teach him to drop it first, and offer something else in return for dropping it (stinky treats might work). Then you can safely pick the rawhide up without the both of you threatening each other.

The black dog in my avatar is 7 years old, and I fully trust her not to bite me, but I'd still never just yank something out of her mouth. I always have her drop it first. It's threatening to her for me to yank something away while she has it in her possession.

Elijah · 03-07-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Perhaps you should teach him to drop it first, and offer something else in return for dropping it (stinky treats might work). Then you can safely pick the rawhide up without the both of you threatening each other.

Sounds like excellent advice to me. Oddly enough, I've never heard of a GP bitting anyone for any reason. Anything can happen with animals that can't tell you they're not feeling well, hurting or just want some space. It very well could be something physical which is the first thing I would rule out.

garrett · 03-07-2007, 05:37 PM

I always take his bones from him and then give them back with a lot of praise. I do this for obvious reasons. He is in great shape physically as far as we know. We have spoken to the vet, and we will miss him more than you know. Thank you for the support. The safety of our family has to come first. This has been the worst experience for us. But, we know what we have to do.

opossum · 03-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrett

I always take his bones from him and then give them back with a lot of praise. I do this for obvious reasons.

Can you elaborate? I'm assuming you think this is how you make yourself dominant? There are many other (and better) things you should be doing for that purpose.

Quote:

He is in great shape physically as far as we know. We have spoken to the vet, and we will miss him more than you know. Thank you for the support. The safety of our family has to come first. This has been the worst experience for us. But, we know what we have to do.

So you're just giving up on this member of your family after one incident that you don't even understand and that you responded badly to?