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Old 02-21-2007, 06:01 PM   #1
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Stressed, need help please

I apologize if this gets a little lengthy.

I have an american white shepherd (I think that's what they're calling the white german shepherds now) named Whisper, he's not my first one, I had a female before him before she got on in age. She was an angel and a great companion.

A quick background on Whisper who I'm concerned with. I got him from a breeder at 6 weeks of age. (I wasn't aware that it would have been better to wait another 2 weeks before we got him. However what's done is done, we have him.)

He was very well behaved early on, listened idealy and a very fast learner. He understood his place and we were doing reward training with him. He loved it and was always socialized with people and kids. Well when he was around 11-12 weeks, a friend of ours and her husband came over and wanted to see Whisper.

Her husband started going on about male dominance and alpha challenges, which I'm familiar but I explained to him that Whisper's place in our family is being established and we were doing fine. Anyway our friend who swears he knows everything about dogs (yet ironically hasn't own any) started talking about the "old school" training methods of alpha submission and pretty much bully-training to be superior over him.

I told him again that is not how we are training our pup. The reward training is working perfectly and that's also how we trained Daisy. I got up for a moment to the kitchen to get my guests something to drink and then I heard a whining and came back into the livingroom to see my friend's husband pinning Whisper to the ground and holding his muzzle shut!!

I don't really honestly know what I was thinking when I saw that, but he let Whisper go and said "I wasn't hurting him, I was just showing him that he wasn't dominant over me." I was so angry, told him that he had absolutely no right to do that, it was not his place and told them to leave.

Unfortunately ever since then Whisper has been very uncomfortable around people, barks at everyone, and it took a very long time for him to let me even touch his head. Every time I tried to correct any wrong behavior, which wasn't often thank goodness, he would litteraly protest and challenge me. I had no idea that what our friend had done would be so traumatizing. I mean I can only imagine but I was trying everything I can for the next while to bring Whisper's trust about.

I took him to the vet and explained what happened. The vet told me to take him to training classes to help Whisper out. I did all that and he graduated. The only thing that we got out of it as that he listens to the commands, but he's still fearful of people and very challenging when it's time for an misbehavior. Working with him for the past months has become very stressful and the worst has happened. Today when he snatched a piece of apple off of the table, I went to correct him with "no" and wanted to guide him out of the dining room. But when I reached for his collar, he actually snapped at me and bit me. I was so shocked, I never had that happen to me before. He didn't cause me to bleed thank goodness but my hand does hurt and it's bruised. I didn't know what to do other than to command him into his kennel and shut the door.

I have no idea what to do. I'm very heart broken right now because I feel like I lost him. I feel like I failed. I've been trying to work with him since that incident I guess I haven't been doing that good of a job like I thought.

Now I'm worried he might do it again. I really don't know what to do.....
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:22 PM   #2
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I wouldn't think that one incident would cause such lasting problems, but I guess it's possible. You need to find a local pro to help with this.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:39 PM   #3
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Kick the friend to the curb, and then get in Hubby's ass!

You will need to get a behaviorist or trainer the specializes in fear and fear aggression. Here is a link to find a qualified trainer.
http://www.iaabc.org/

A couple of books that might help in the mean time.

"How to right a Dog Gone Wrong" by Pamela Dennisson
"Scaredy Dog" by Allie Brown
"The Cautious Canine" by Dr. Patricia McConnell

Any of these are available on dogwise.com
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:32 PM   #4
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Wow! I mean wow! I cannot believe someone would do that to someone elses dog! Wow, that made me so mad! I couldn't even imagine if someone did that to my dog...I probably would used their own methods on them! I am soooooo sorry that happened to you guys! Wow that story just struck me so hard! I can't believe it!

It does take a lot to gain a dog's trust back, but I think since the dog did snap at you that you should definfitely seek a proffessional's advice and see if they can help rehabilitate him. Try not to lose hope (I'm sure it's hard) and remember that dog's can be helped with aggression problems and if you do seek help pretty quickly then he can only get better!! But beware of being nervous around him. I know it must be a little nerve racking since he already snapped at you, but if you are nervous/scared of him it could only make the problem worse.

Gosh I really hope that you can find some help and get through this! Good luck to you and let us know!! (And I agree I hope you kick that friend to the curb.)
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:23 PM   #5
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ohh my!! yeah, i would deff say see ya to that friend... it just wasnt there place for that... but try not to worry to much as a few said the dog will sense it and know and only make things worse... the problem can be fixed... just find a good pro to help you!
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Old 02-22-2007, 10:37 AM   #6
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Man o man, I don't swear alot but what an f****** ***hole. One of my moms friend who owns pomeranians told us to make Chloe bark less we should pick her up and hold her mouth shut when someone comes to the door and she actually demonstrated when her husband came in a few minutes later and Chloe began to bark. Chloe was afraid of new people to begin with now you can't get near here and I am positive it had something to do with my moms "friend." Needless to say I don't let her touch Chloe when she comes over any more and she doesn't really like that but oh well for her. Peple think they can tell you how to train a dog or raise your kids when in actual fact they should keep their comments to themselves and shut the heck up.
I agree, you should consult a behaviourist and see what can be done and tear a big strip out of that jerk for doing that to your dog. Also if you got the dog at such a young age the breeder may not have been the most responsible breeder in the whole world so this could be a genetic thing as well. Shepherds are not supposed to be aggressive towards their people and it may be a result of bad breeding. But you never know it could be because of mr. butwipe thinking he could make A PUPPY submit.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:21 PM   #7
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Thank you guys so much for the links and suggestions. I'm looking into a behaviorist around here and the books suggested will help until the mean time.

Whisper's doing good today. I'm not nervous around him but I just feel terrible that that happened. It just was really heart breaking and unexpected. I'm really hoping that'll be a one time thing.

As for our "friend", he and his wife are long out of our lives, for many reasons but Whisper's incident was the the final straw. I had emailed them several days after they had visited and explained the situation, but we never got any responses back from them. Trust me if you knew this guy, he's very arrogant and thinks he knows everything about everything. He has a tendency to talk to people like they're children, so what he did to Whisper honestly seems like something he would do to anyone's dog.

I was concerned that maybe it was Whisper's breeding that might have influenced anything but for some reason I can't get ahold of the breeder anymore. That's started to concern me too.

But again thank you so much for the suggestions. I'll keep you updated on Whisper's progress.
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Old 02-22-2007, 02:52 PM   #8
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Arrogant is to nice of word for this A-HOLE. That is horrible what this person did to your dog. Do you have children. I think if you do not you will be able to correct this problem safely and have a wonderful companion. I have heard (not personally known) that some dogs have some sort of imbalance and makes them mean unpredictable and mean. I sure hope that that is not the case.

I will watch for your up dates and wish you the best of luck. I usually like to say keep you in my prayes (because I think that is better than wishing luck) but I am not sure anymore if that is appropriate or offensive. In any case its sounds like you will do all you can.
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Old 02-22-2007, 03:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy77 View Post
Trust me if you knew this guy, he's very arrogant and thinks he knows everything about everything.
I know the type. I can only hope he tries that on big dominant Rottweiler one day Okay, not really but it's fun to think about. Keep posting updates on how it's going wtih Whisper.
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Old 02-22-2007, 06:38 PM   #10
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Uh oh Daisy not being able to get a hold of the breeder definitely would worry me. Don't waste to much energy on him if you can;t get a hold of him though. Get help for whisper and be as patient as you can be with your buddy.
I hope all goes well for you and Whisper.
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:21 PM   #11
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Sad and angry

My God, it's hard to believe that someone would do something like that. You can bet that it scared Whispers and I am sure it hurt too. It has turned out to be traumatic. It's something that can be repaired though. You are getting good advice on the previous posts. This can be overcome with a little help. Unbelievable. Stories like that make me both sad and angry.

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Old 02-24-2007, 10:54 AM   #12
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This is why it's a bad Idea to watch peole like Milan rolling dogs and dominating them on TV. People see this and think they can do it too.
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